i would never make this trade.

At this point I don't think Hickey has the fire power to pull the trigger on this trade on his own. However if the strategy is to clean house on all of Ireland's picks then I'd question the wisdom of what passes for our coaching staff.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

I still say he'd do better as a WOLB, and we'd be stupid not to try him there.

I dont think the Eagles ever wanted him last year

EAGLES PICK #22. So , No way. Last year when they were at #4 Their # 2 was really a High #1.


Listen Teams are trying to do whats best for that team , at the very best Both Teams get a win /win. They were trying to get a #3 overall player they wanted at #4 for a second rounder and some B.S. Player. That's Win/lose. Win for Philly loss for us unless Hickey picks an amazing player or uses that #2 to move up to obtain Zack Martin . I'd say counter with their #22 overall 1 st rounder and keep any player. They still get the player they wanted at a lower pick with a year's worth of experience playing next to Cam Wade.

That's Win/win.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

the offer is insulting and made only bc they think we are stupid enough to go for it. anyone advocating this trade is a moron, or for trading him for anything more than at least a mid 1st, 2d, and player is also dumb. We already paid him a ton of gteed money in his signing bonus and if we got rid of him now we'd have cap his the next 2 years. He's already been paid the bulk of his money and now he is cheap labor going forward. And we should trade him now for pennies on the dollar? F that. Dude was the #3 pick in the draft and essentially cost us the #12 and a second rounder.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the offer is insulting and made only bc they think
> we are stupid enough to go for it. anyone
> advocating this trade is a moron, or for trading
> him for anything more than at least a mid 1st, 2d,
> and player is also dumb. We already paid him a ton
> of gteed money in his signing bonus and if we got
> rid of him now we'd have cap his the next 2 years.
> He's already been paid the bulk of his money and
> now he is cheap labor going forward. And we should
> trade him now for pennies on the dollar? F that.
> Dude was the #3 pick in the draft and essentially
> cost us the #12 and a second rounder.


Its a negotiation Berk. They'd be morons to lead with their best offer.

Any team is free to pick up the phone and make a low ball offer on any player.

Its not a big deal, unless we accept.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
or uses
> that #2 to move up to obtain Zack Martin . I'd say
> counter with their #22 overall 1 st rounder and
> keep any player. They still get the player they
> wanted at a lower pick with a year's worth of
> experience playing next to Cam Wade.
>
> That's Win/win.


I think Dion Jordans potential, impact on our team, and replaceability is much tougher to do then what Zack Martin would bring to the table... It is a lot easier to find a RT then an elite athlete and pass rusher like Jordan IMO... Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind Zack Martin at 19... But not Zack Martin at the sake of giving up on what Dion Jordan can be for our team... Jordan couldn't be a strength on the team last year for many reasons already brought up in other topics, no need to rehash them... Also Olivier Vernon had a break out year in the position Jordan would have gotten his majority of snaps... But Jordan did the unexpected extremely well, he covered guys like Gronk and Antonio Gates like a glove, and all but shut down whoever he covered... Guys that exploited others defenses all over the NFL... Jordan after this year could be worth 2 first rd picks, or be a defensive franchise athlete for us... Chip Kelly knows him best and still wants him, that would tell me, the guy who knows him best sees his potential value and is trying to grab him quick before the Dolphins are able to realize it... We need to keep Jordan IMO....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still say he'd do better as a WOLB, and we'd be
> stupid not to try him there.


I agree but if he puts on some strength and size his injuries prevented last year, he still has a lot of potential at DE.. But we definitely should not keep him on the bench while Vernon and Wake lock down the DE positions... We should be preparing him to play WOLB, to be able to have all 3 of them on the field, rather then one of them on the bench... Guys on the bench can't help you win...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> or uses
> > that #2 to move up to obtain Zack Martin . I'd
> say
> > counter with their #22 overall 1 st rounder and
> > keep any player. They still get the player they
> > wanted at a lower pick with a year's worth of
> > experience playing next to Cam Wade.
> >
> > That's Win/win.
>
>
> I think Dion Jordans potential, impact on our
> team, and replaceability is much tougher to do
> then what Zack Martin would bring to the table...
> It is a lot easier to find a RT then an elite
> athlete and pass rusher like Jordan IMO... Don't
> get me wrong, I wouldn't mind Zack Martin at 19...
> But not Zack Martin at the sake of giving up on
> what Dion Jordan can be for our team... Jordan
> couldn't be a strength on the team last year for
> many reasons already brought up in other topics,
> no need to rehash them... Also Olivier Vernon had
> a break out year in the position Jordan would have
> gotten his majority of snaps... But Jordan did the
> unexpected extremely well, he covered guys like
> Gronk and Antonio Gates like a glove, and all but
> shut down whoever he covered... Guys that
> exploited others defenses all over the NFL...
> Jordan after this year could be worth 2 first rd
> picks, or be a defensive franchise athlete for
> us... Chip Kelly knows him best and still wants
> him, that would tell me, the guy who knows him
> best sees his potential value and is trying to
> grab him quick before the Dolphins are able to
> realize it... We need to keep Jordan IMO....



Trading up in this draft for an Olineman would be a mistake.


And Crowder, you are right about keeping Jordan. Trading up at the expense of a talent like Jordan would only compound the mistake of trading up for a player who isn't an elite player.


I'd take any of the following at #19:

Eric Ebron, Aaron Donald, Anthony Barr, CJ Mosley, Calvin Pryor, Ryan Shazier, or Justin Gilbert. If the first three are gone I'd look to trade down 3-7 spots if I thought one of the others would last that long.

If they were all gone I'd trade out of the first round.

unless a team were to give us the equivalent of the #3 pick in the draft, then I say hell no to trading Jordan. Trading Cam Wake makes more sense due to age and salary, as I think Truth or someone pointed out before. But I wouldnt' do that except for a 1st

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I still say he'd do better as a WOLB, and we'd
> be
> > stupid not to try him there.
>
>
> I agree but if he puts on some strength and size
> his injuries prevented last year, he still has a
> lot of potential at DE.. But we definitely should
> not keep him on the bench while Vernon and Wake
> lock down the DE positions... We should be
> preparing him to play WOLB, to be able to have all
> 3 of them on the field, rather then one of them on
> the bench... Guys on the bench can't help you
> win...

That's it in a nutshell. If we had a need for DE I'd say no way. But we have depth there as well as the leading DE in the league in Wake. What good does the #3 overall pick do us on the bench? We need so much else its worth exploring a Trade, but definitely don't give him away. The Eagles GM needs to be drug tested.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Isn't going to happen. Bob Grotz is starting a rumor, nothing more.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's it in a nutshell. If we had a need for DE
> I'd say no way. But we have depth there as well
> as the leading DE in the league in Wake. What good
> does the #3 overall pick do us on the bench? We
> need so much else its worth exploring a Trade, but
> definitely don't give him away. The Eagles GM
> needs to be drug tested.

Sure, but when was the last time we had an OLB that could effectively cover TE's as well as rush the passer? Jordan can do that!! Our DE's are rarely if ever called upon to cover TE's, so who waste Jordan's talent and pigeon-hole him into a position that doesn't utilize all his skills. I still say he's a WOLB. If he ends up bulking to the size of a DE at WOLB while not sacrificing his speed and agility, he could be one of the best ever at that position.

If that's the plan. We are desperately in need of a middle Linebacker. Can he handle it?

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

I would have to get a huge offer for Jordan to part with him. He can still be an impact player.

Even if Philly offers Evan Mathis and their 1st rounder, I would have to think hard about it. They were shopping Mathis earlier.

The only way I would consider it is if we could package 19 & 22 to move up for an elite tackle. That "could" get us up around #6. I may do it for Jake Mathews. Evan Mathis and Jake Mathews pretty much completes our line.

or use just one first rounder and our second to move around 10-12 if Lewan drops.

The problem is in one or two years when Wake loses a step...then what? We are searching for a pass rusher. They are hard to come by!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If that's the plan. We are desperately in need of
> a middle Linebacker. Can he handle it?

Hmm...I'd hesitate to make that big a change. His skills fit the OLB position perfectly. Wheeler is one that really needs to go.

I agree, Wheeler has done absolutely nothing at the position. We were a solid unit in 2012. Took a big step backwards with Irelands free agents. If Jordon can play other positions and contribute off the bench then by all means lets get him playing. But what we paid for him is too expensive for depth at a deep position. We would be better off taking a bit less for some chances at filling holes.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's it in a nutshell. If we had a need for DE
> I'd say no way. But we have depth there as well
> as the leading DE in the league in Wake. What good
> does the #3 overall pick do us on the bench?


Look at the jump Cam Wake made from his first to second year with the team... Cam Wake wasn't played all that much his first year with the Dolphins either... Granted he had a bit of a better year then Jordan rookie year, Wake was alas more seasoned then Jordan... My point is, it is very difficult to judge a pass rusher based on his rookie or first year in a system or with a team... Jordan got 2 sacks with 26 combined tackles with very few opportunities. Wake had 23 combined tackles 5.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble his first year as a Dolphin... Trading Wake wouldn't have been a good idea after his first year as a Dolphin and I don't think trading Jordan is a good idea either... By the way, Cam's second year was 48 tackles, 14 sacks and 3 forced fumbles...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

True. But Wake got that chance because JT retired. Can Jordon put those numbers up with Cam still playing ay such a high level?

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's it in a nutshell. If we had a need for
> DE
> > I'd say no way. But we have depth there as
> well
> > as the leading DE in the league in Wake. What
> good
> > does the #3 overall pick do us on the bench?
>
>
> Look at the jump Cam Wake made from his first to
> second year with the team... Cam Wake wasn't
> played all that much his first year with the
> Dolphins either... Granted he had a bit of a
> better year then Jordan rookie year, Wake was alas
> more seasoned then Jordan... My point is, it is
> very difficult to judge a pass rusher based on his
> rookie or first year in a system or with a team...
> Jordan got 2 sacks with 26 combined tackles with
> very few opportunities. Wake had 23 combined
> tackles 5.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble his first
> year as a Dolphin... Trading Wake wouldn't have
> been a good idea after his first year as a Dolphin
> and I don't think trading Jordan is a good idea
> either... By the way, Cam's second year was 48
> tackles, 14 sacks and 3 forced fumbles...

How many guys were down on Olivier Vernon after his first year?

He had 3.5 sacks as a rookie. He had 11.5 in year two.


You can never have enough pass rushers.

True, In a division dominated by Tom Brady you need to build your defense around pass rushers.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

OK you sold me.....IF he gets the play time. 2 high picks is too much for future greatness when we have serious holes to fill now.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

oh no, we may have depth and more than 2 good players on defense! better trade one, quick!!

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh no, we may have depth and more than 2 good
> players on defense! better trade one, quick!!


If That trade wasn't made last year and we used the first rounder or the second 2nd rounder on a O lineman.......good chance we make the playoffs. Just sayin.......

A middle linebacker/another Olineman / tightend/ would have a much bigger impact immediately then depth on a already deep position. If a decent trade comes our way its worth exploring if Jordans immediate plans is to ride the pine.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Problem was that Dion did not see the field as much as he should have. Could have been the initial injury,....could have been he never healed (if that so then....) could have been Philbin's reluctance to play rookies. We don't know.

I would do it if they threw in a fith round pick as well!