I'm not thrilled. The Bucs sucked for most of his time there. Not many flashy players where drafted. I would say if anything that he can hit on defensive players and lineman, but he has issues with wrs and QBs. Lucky for him we only need one amazing wr. I hope he does a great job, but he has to hit it out of the park this draft for me to be fully supportive. Still think we are lame ducks with Philben at the helm.

Sickofit+1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not thrilled. The Bucs sucked for most of his
> time there. Not many flashy players where drafted.
> I would say if anything that he can hit on
> defensive players and lineman, but he has issues
> with wrs and QBs. Lucky for him we only need one
> amazing wr. I hope he does a great job, but he has
> to hit it out of the park this draft for me to be
> fully supportive. Still think we are lame ducks
> with Philben at the helm.

Really? All this team is missing is "one amazing wr"? What team were you watching?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > is there a reason why TB had zero interest in
> > retaining him?
>
>
> He's been there 18 yrs. I doubt they had zero %
> interest in him. Just not as there #1 guy.

Exactly.

Like all teams, they made a complete change. They hired Jason Licht and Lovie Smith. I would not be too impressed with the Bucs decisions. Its not like they have the crystal ball.

The fired Rich MCKay and he went on to be very successful in the Falcons organization.

Mark Dominik, Bruce Allen.....One man's trash....

Just like we did not sign Brian Gaine to be our GM. Doesn't mean he won't be successful some day.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

All GM's have their ups and downs. Look at Belichick and Ozzy Newsome. Some consider them to be among the best but Bill has been struggling for years to draft elite talent. Ozzie has as well. I would even say he has been screwin the pooch for the last 4 years or so. His drafts have been worse than Jeff Ireland's.

Look at this first rounders (or first picks) since 2010....

Sergio Kindle, Jimmy Smith, Courtney Upshaw, Matt Elam....

His best pick over that time has been Dennis Pitta. Not exactly setting the league on fire.

I'll take our #1's over that span any day.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

We hired hickey literally bc every other person we offered the job to said know. Spin it however, but if hickey turns out to be great it will because of dumb luck which is really all we have to hope for with this ownership.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

more soothsaying....Awesome!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

For all to see......He was like the 325th choice.


He is going to be great.


We have a lot to look forward to.

The difference between a good GM and a so so GM is minor mixed in with a lot of luck IMO, take Ryan Griggson for instance, he might look like a great GM for drafting Luck, TY Hilton and a few others, but then look at him trading away a 2nd for V. Davis and a 1st for T Richardson, very "Luck"y to get Luck, good drafting to get TY, horrible moves in the trade dept. He will probably be viewed as a succesful GM because of Luck though. All Hickey has to do to be better than Ireland is, address glaring holes, show some PR moxie, don't get too cute in the draft. Almost all of these guys have similar grades on certain players, it just takes some luck and good coaching to have them develope.

what we need to stop doing is reaching for need and drafting the best player available.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> more soothsaying....Awesome!


Soothsaying?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

and stop drafting all the injury prone players as well.


Im glad that piece of shit ireland is gone.

Graham isn't going anywhere

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I knew you were a soothsayer!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I knew you were a soothsayer!


Let me translate this for you berk. If you are optimistic, you get left alone. If you are wary or pessimistic, then how do you KNOW things won't turn out well????????????????????

Cutting garner, arkin and brown won't save you money. You still have to replace them.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cutting garner, arkin and brown won't save you
> money. You still have to replace them.

Cheaper options with players who may actually develop into something. Garner has had enough time and his 1.5m = 2 or 3 players to compete.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Garner has always been one of our better OL when he's played, and he's played everywhere on the line. He is one of the few I would keep.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

We are sunk, we get a guy from a team that is worse off than us. This was a poor very poor pick. I would have prefered that the new GM replace what he thought was needed...even if it meant philbin had to go. I say another mediocre season coming. Looks like I will save another bunch of ca$h on direct tv nfl package.

You can probably safe a few more bucks by getting rid of your internet also........just sayin

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Cutting garner, arkin and brown won't save you
> > money. You still have to replace them.
>
> Cheaper options with players who may actually
> develop into something. Garner has had enough time
> and his 1.5m = 2 or 3 players to compete.


The veteran minimum was in the neighborhood of $850k last year. I don't know what it is this year.


But if you cut guys like Garner with the goal of saving cap space, you are replacing them with rookie FA's. I'm not sure that's the way to go.

I'd rather just not re-sign a guy like Grimes...

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can probably safe a few more bucks by getting
> rid of your internet also........just sayin


hahahaha....awesome....

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THE Truth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Cutting garner, arkin and brown won't save
> you
> > > money. You still have to replace them.
> >
> > Cheaper options with players who may actually
> > develop into something. Garner has had enough
> time
> > and his 1.5m = 2 or 3 players to compete.
>
>
> The veteran minimum was in the neighborhood of
> $850k last year. I don't know what it is this
> year.
>
>
> But if you cut guys like Garner with the goal of
> saving cap space, you are replacing them with
> rookie FA's. I'm not sure that's the way to go.

The goal is to improve the roster, not just save cap space. Like I said, he has had 5 years. A few people think he is so invaluable but the truth is he hasn't really played well since he had to sub at LT when Long got hurt a few years ago. He was benched last year in favor of one of those rookie FA's....Sam Brenner. That is until Brenner played so poorly he got benched.

He has gotten his shots to show what he could do. He has not separated himself or earned a starting spot...IN 5 YEARS. Perhaps he was better in the other scheme but even the depth needs to be improved. He cannot run block and is occasionally ok in pass pro.

It does not have to be a rookie FA that replaces him. It could be a late round rookie or even just a young player. We have a new OC and a new line coach from a zone scheme. I am thinking they will probably want better fitting players anyway.

You just can't convince me that we can't upgrade for the same or less money. Ireland had no clue. Geoff Schwartz signed with KC last year as a backup and ended up starting 12 games (two positions) and beat the starter out of his spot. He made 700k and came into the league the same year as Garner (2009). Not exactly sure about that vet minimum rule.

Schwartz would be a great addition too. Hell, even the guy he beat out (Asomoah) would be an upgrade. Both FA's.

Oh yeah.....and Watkins needs to go as well. That's another 500k of dead weight.

Brenner may have earned a longer look. Garner had his IMO.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > eesti Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > THE Truth Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Cutting garner, arkin and brown won't save
> > you
> > > > money. You still have to replace them.
> > >
> > > Cheaper options with players who may actually
> > > develop into something. Garner has had enough
> > time
> > > and his 1.5m = 2 or 3 players to compete.
> >
> >
> > The veteran minimum was in the neighborhood of
> > $850k last year. I don't know what it is this
> > year.
> >
> >
> > But if you cut guys like Garner with the goal
> of
> > saving cap space, you are replacing them with
> > rookie FA's. I'm not sure that's the way to
> go.
>
> The goal is to improve the roster, not just save
> cap space. Like I said, he has had 5 years. A few
> people think he is so invaluable but the truth is
> he hasn't really played well since he had to sub
> at LT when Long got hurt a few years ago. He was
> benched last year in favor of one of those rookie
> FA's....Sam Brenner. That is until Brenner played
> so poorly he got benched.
>
> He has gotten his shots to show what he could do.
> He has not separated himself or earned a starting
> spot...IN 5 YEARS. Perhaps he was better in the
> other scheme but even the depth needs to be
> improved. He cannot run block and is occasionally
> ok in pass pro.
>
> It does not have to be a rookie FA that replaces
> him. It could be a late round rookie or even just
> a young player. We have a new OC and a new line
> coach from a zone scheme. I am thinking they will
> probably want better fitting players anyway.
>
> You just can't convince me that we can't upgrade
> for the same or less money. Ireland had no clue.
> Geoff Schwartz signed with KC last year as a
> backup and ended up starting 12 games (two
> positions) and beat the starter out of his spot.
> He made 700k and came into the league the same
> year as Garner (2009). Not exactly sure about that
> vet minimum rule.
>
> Schwartz would be a great addition too. Hell, even
> the guy he beat out (Asomoah) would be an upgrade.
> Both FA's.
>
> Oh yeah.....and Watkins needs to go as well.
> That's another 500k of dead weight.
>
> Brenner may have earned a longer look. Garner had
> his IMO.


I'm not against bringing in new blood. I was just pointing out that you aren't saving much cap if any by cutting guys making at or near the veteran minimum.


As I said before, I'd sign 3 FA o-lineman, including a LT, and I'd draft at least two more...although not likely in the first round.

I don't have much of a problem with that and would not be disappointed if we signed Eugene Monroe and a few guards like Geoff Schwartz and Travelle Wharton.

LT Monroe
LG Wharton
C Pouncey
RG Schwartz
RT ???

We still have to draft a lineman or two and then fill the other holes at CB, FS, LB, etc

Tackles are expensive in FA. Guards are cheaper.

We need 4 linemen and there is no telling what the new GM will think of Will Davis, Jamar Taylor and Dallas Thomas.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have much of a problem with that and would
> not be disappointed if we signed Eugene Monroe and
> a few guards like Geoff Schwartz and Travelle
> Wharton.
>
> LT Monroe
> LG Wharton
> C Pouncey
> RG Schwartz
> RT ???
>
> We still have to draft a lineman or two and then
> fill the other holes at CB, FS, LB, etc
>
> Tackles are expensive in FA. Guards are cheaper.
>
> We need 4 linemen and there is no telling what the
> new GM will think of Will Davis, Jamar Taylor and
> Dallas Thomas.


If that was our entire Free Agent spending spree I could live with it. I'd also like to bring Clabo back so I don't have to rely on rookie lineman to produce.

Lucky for us we have enough money to do all that and still fill a few other holes at the right price.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't have much of a problem with that and
> would
> > not be disappointed if we signed Eugene Monroe
> and
> > a few guards like Geoff Schwartz and Travelle
> > Wharton.
> >
> > LT Monroe
> > LG Wharton
> > C Pouncey
> > RG Schwartz
> > RT ???
> >
> > We still have to draft a lineman or two and
> then
> > fill the other holes at CB, FS, LB, etc
> >
> > Tackles are expensive in FA. Guards are
> cheaper.
> >
> > We need 4 linemen and there is no telling what
> the
> > new GM will think of Will Davis, Jamar Taylor
> and
> > Dallas Thomas.
>
>
> If that was our entire Free Agent spending spree I
> could live with it. I'd also like to bring Clabo
> back so I don't have to rely on rookie lineman to
> produce.
>
> Lucky for us we have enough money to do all that
> and still fill a few other holes at the right
> price.

Do we have enough money to do all that? We have 30mil and we need about 6 mil for the rookie class...so 24 mil in cap space.

Monroe 8 mil
Schwartz 4 mil
Wharton 4.5 mil
Clabo: 3.5 mil (last years cap hit)

There's 20 mil right there. Suddenly the need to restructure contracts and cut dead weight becomes more important.

We still to fill holes at CB1, FS, DT1, DT3 and get legit competition at OLB/MLB, TE, RB, FB...

Can we do that with 4 mil dollars?

You either sign lineman who aren't as good or ???? We can't continue to sign players at these reduced rate 1st year cap hits when they jump astronomically the following year.

Ellerbe: 2013 2.4mil, 2014 7.4 mil
Wheeler: same
Wallace: 2013 3.2mil, 2014 17.2mil

That to me means our defense takes a huge drop in 2014. No Grimes, No Starks, No Solia, same LB'ers....

We may score 25 PPG but we probably give up much more.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2014 04:14AM by eesti.

dolfan1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We are sunk, we get a guy from a team that is
> worse off than us. This was a poor very poor pick.
> I would have prefered that the new GM replace what
> he thought was needed...even if it meant philbin
> had to go. I say another mediocre season coming.
> Looks like I will save another bunch of ca$h on
> direct tv nfl package.


you are like 9 years old so yes you are going to save a lot of cash on your lil monopoly game. Ya PUTZ.

Ok samsam. Stutter samsam. I can buy and sell you many times over I am sure. Not bad for a 9 year old