THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The way we are currently set up with coaching,
> personnel and the business sides all independent,
> equal and reporting directly to the owner, our
> ultimate decision maker on all things football
> related is a neophyte Billionaire real estate
> mogul.
>
> That's not good.


If there was a special candidate out there worthy of being the football czar, I'd agree with you. Problem is, I don't see that guy out there, and I'd sure as hell NOT hand that kind of power over to ANY of the names I've seen rumored or confirmed for the Dolphins gig.

To justify that sort of structure, IMO, you need a guy like Shula, Johnson, Saban or Parcells. I don't see anyone like that out there right now who is available.

Here's some food for thought from the Sentinel's Dave Hyde, which my experience has taught me is very true: "In the past few weeks I've talked with two former general managers, two pro personnel people and a team administrator. All of them say the same thing: "Final say," is more a media and fans issue than it is a sticking point inside a good organization. "The most important thing is knowing you can work with someone and being on the same page," one said."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2014 04:08AM by cshashaty.

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The way we are currently set up with coaching,
> > personnel and the business sides all
> independent,
> > equal and reporting directly to the owner, our
> > ultimate decision maker on all things football
> > related is a neophyte Billionaire real estate
> > mogul.
> >
> > That's not good.
>
>
> If there was a special candidate out there worthy
> of being the football czar, I'd agree with you.
> Problem is, I don't see that guy out there, and
> I'd sure as hell NOT hand that kind of power over
> to ANY of the names I've seen rumored or confirmed
> for the Dolphins gig.
>
> To justify that sort of structure, IMO, you need a
> guy like Shula, Johnson, Saban or Parcells. I
> don't see anyone like that out there right now who
> is available.

I disagree. I'm not looking for a strong HC who runs everything like those guys.

I want a great personnel guy who gets to build the front office and staff.

The guys we have been interviewing are scouts.

The best GM candidates like Gamble and Decosta wouldn't give us the time of day because we weren't going to let them choose the direction of the team.

I want a GM who hires HIS coaches. Guys I know he can work with, who runs a system he believes in. I want the HC to be autonomous when it comes to hiring his staff and deciding who plays and who doesn't. But I want the GM to have the ability to fire any coach. I don't want that responsibility handed to a HC who may be to loyal to his guys to make the right call on a guy like Sherman. The HC needs to report to the GM and the GM to the owner or CEO.

Let a VP or CEO/COO like Aponte run the business side of the equation and you have a sound structure that will foster team work, not create the opportunity for divisiveness.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cshashaty Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It goes without saying that I don't always
> agree
> > with the Sentinel's Omar Kelly, but do
> yourselves
> > a favor and read his column today. You can get
> to
> > a free version through the Phins.com News Wire.
>
> >
> > I don't know where the entire truth begins and
> > ends in this whole GM thing, so it is unfair
> IMO
> > to sling arrows as many in media are doing
> today,
> > but I can tell you that anyone who is
> prejudiced
> > about working with women has no place in
> business
> > today.
> >
> > Here's cold fact that people had better get
> used
> > to: Dawn Aponte is a powerful woman in a male
> > dominated business, and she's damn good at what
> > she does. She is HELPING to make the Dolphins a
> > winner, which is a hell of a lot more than
> Ireland
> > did. So ANY new GM coming into the organization
> > had better be comfortable working with her or
> they
> > can find employment elsewhere.
>
> I have zero issues with Dawn Aponte running the
> revenue generating side of the business or having
> clout in the organization. By all accounts
> she's very intelligent and very good at those
> things.
>
> I don't want her (or Ross) anywhere near the
> decisions on what systems we run, who coaches, and
> what players we bring in.
>
> If you didn't play football, coach football or
> work as a scout in the NFL then you have no
> business being involved in the personnel decisions
> for staffing or players.

they aren't.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Apparently Farmer wanted control over all
> > personnel and finacial aspects of the team and
> > didn't want to report to anyone but Ross
> himself.
> >
> > Philbin controls the coaching staff.
> > Aponte controls finacial matters.
> >
> > Farmer would have been in control of player
> > personnel and the scouts...not enough for him I
> > guess.
> >
> > Good riddance to him. If he dosen't want the
> job
> > then I don't want him working for the team.
> >
> > Why? I don't subscribe to the one man in
> control
> > of everything philosophy...it's usually too
> much
> > work for one person to do and to have it done
> > well.
> >
>
> I'm not sure I follow you Ken.
>
> How is one GM, in control of personnel (players
> and coaches) and what we spend on players and
> coaches, in control of everything?
>
> He's not messing around with the coaching side of
> the equation other than to hire and fire the staff
> he wants to hitch his career to.
>
> One man in control of everything would be the Head
> Coach who trys to do that job AND the GM job.
>
> I'd agree with you that that is not the model I'd
> want. Its too much work for one man.
>
>
> A strong GM model gives you compartmentalized
> coaching, personnel and business aspects of the
> organization with one FOOTBALL person having the
> final authority over who coaches, and what players
> are on the team.
>
> No matter what organization you are talking
> about...if you go high enough in the structure you
> have one person who makes the decisions.
>
> The way we are currently set up with coaching,
> personnel and the business sides all independent,
> equal and reporting directly to the owner, our
> ultimate decision maker on all things football
> related is a neophyte Billionaire real estate
> mogul.
>
> That's not good.


RE: The report I read said that Farmer didn't want Aponte working out finacial details for player aquisitions. It also said that he didn't like Philbim having control over the coaching staff. It said that he wanted control over those things as well as the personnel department.

Thats pretty much control of every aspect of the team on the football side of things. One person should not have that kind of control IMHO. Very few are good at doing so many things well. I simply don't want a GM that tries to wear too many hats.

And just because Ross would be the person these people report to does not mean that he's making the decisions as they relate to the football product.

Who knows for sure what the real story is with all of this...we've really got a bunch of speculation and nothing else at the moment.

Good luck finding a QB Ray. Weeden is not the answer and neither is Jason Campbell or Brian Hoyer. No sure things in this draft either. No Andrew Lucks. Oh...and there are 3 teams ahead of you that need a QB.

Many careers are lost when you don't have one an can't find one. It's not as easy as it looks.

Shanahan was a genius last year. This year....hit the bricks.

Andy Reid....fired for not having one. Now he's a genius again with his QB in the Pro Bowl.

and contrary to popular belief.....Cleveland does not rock!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ken Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Apparently Farmer wanted control over all
> > > personnel and finacial aspects of the team
> and
> > > didn't want to report to anyone but Ross
> > himself.
> > >
> > > Philbin controls the coaching staff.
> > > Aponte controls finacial matters.
> > >
> > > Farmer would have been in control of player
> > > personnel and the scouts...not enough for him
> I
> > > guess.
> > >
> > > Good riddance to him. If he dosen't want the
> > job
> > > then I don't want him working for the team.
> > >
> > > Why? I don't subscribe to the one man in
> > control
> > > of everything philosophy...it's usually too
> > much
> > > work for one person to do and to have it done
> > > well.
> > >
> >
> > I'm not sure I follow you Ken.
> >
> > How is one GM, in control of personnel (players
> > and coaches) and what we spend on players and
> > coaches, in control of everything?
> >
> > He's not messing around with the coaching side
> of
> > the equation other than to hire and fire the
> staff
> > he wants to hitch his career to.
> >
> > One man in control of everything would be the
> Head
> > Coach who trys to do that job AND the GM job.
> >
> > I'd agree with you that that is not the model
> I'd
> > want. Its too much work for one man.
> >
> >
> > A strong GM model gives you compartmentalized
> > coaching, personnel and business aspects of the
> > organization with one FOOTBALL person having
> the
> > final authority over who coaches, and what
> players
> > are on the team.
> >
> > No matter what organization you are talking
> > about...if you go high enough in the structure
> you
> > have one person who makes the decisions.
> >
> > The way we are currently set up with coaching,
> > personnel and the business sides all
> independent,
> > equal and reporting directly to the owner, our
> > ultimate decision maker on all things football
> > related is a neophyte Billionaire real estate
> > mogul.
> >
> > That's not good.
>
>
> RE: The report I read said that Farmer didn't want
> Aponte working out finacial details for player
> aquisitions. It also said that he didn't like
> Philbim having control over the coaching staff. It
> said that he wanted control over those things as
> well as the personnel department.


I wouldn't want anyone telling me what I can and can't offer contract-wise either.

As for Philbin, he should be able to hire his coaches. The GM should not be able to stick him with coaches he doesn't want.

But Philbins boss should be able to fire any coach if a change needs to be made and Philbin can't pull the trigger because he's too emotionally invested in that coach as a friend, mentor, etc...


>
> Thats pretty much control of every aspect of the
> team on the football side of things. One person
> should not have that kind of control IMHO. Very
> few are good at doing so many things well. I
> simply don't want a GM that tries to wear too many
> hats.


One person should have control over all the football aspects.

And that person should be the one who is responsible for the long term planning of the franchise, not the guy focused on the day to day aspect of coaching and winning games.




>
> And just because Ross would be the person these
> people report to does not mean that he's making
> the decisions as they relate to the football
> product.


What happens when the 3 separate but equal branches of our front office can't agree on something?

Do you want Ross breaking that tie?





This is how I would set things up if I were the owner:



I hire a GM. He's in charge of all the long and short term planning on the football side of the equation. He determines what systems we want to run on offense and defense. He hires a HC (or signs off on the one in place) who shares his vision. He works hand in had with that head coach in supplying him with the talent he needs to be successful, but has final say on all player personnel decisions.

As the owner, I give my GM a budget within which he is free to operate at his discretion for player acquisitions. If a signing bonus or salary exceeds that budget I have the right to say "no." Beyond that, I let him do his job.

Aponte runs the business side of the franchise. She's in charge of all marketing, revenue generating and hiring of non-football related things. She's the CEO and advises on cap issues and contract negotiations but can't tell the GM he cannot spend on a player if its within his budget. She can only advise him of the cap impact of any particular deal he wants to offer.

The HC gets to hire his staff. The GM can veto a hire, but cannot force an assistant on the HC. The HC and his staff are then responsible for game planning, game strategy and player development. I expect my GM and HC to work closely together in player acquisition since the GM picked the HC.

The HC can fire his assistants, but so can the GM. This is vital because often the HC is to close to the situation to pull the trigger on a move like that. It takes him off the hook for that liability and gives it to the man who is looking at the long term success of the franchise.

This structure allows for all three aspects of my fron office to focus on what they do best.

My coaches coach.

My CEO makes money for the franchise and is carved out of the on the field product.

My GM controls the long term and short term construction of the roster.


There are other structures that can work with the right people, but this is by far the best way to set up an NFL organizational structure. No one component is spread to thin and they are allowed to do what they do best, without interference from other divisions of the business and you still have one football person accountable for all football related decisions.

No power struggles. Not ties that have to be broken by an owner. No confusion as to what the vision or direction of the franchise is.

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Final say," is more a media and
> fans issue than it is a sticking point inside a
> good organization. "The most important thing is
> knowing you can work with someone and being on the
> same page," one said."


"Inside a good organization..."


That's the key. If you have a good organization with one person in charge, who sets the course and hires the people to meet that vision, of course they are all going to work together and be on the same page very often. In that case, final say isn't an issue.


But when you set up what Ross has set up. A system with no one football person as the go to decision maker. No one person's vision being implemented because the GM is weak and was saddled with a HC, then you are far less likely to have everyone on the same page as frequently as you are if the GM hires his guys.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good luck finding a QB Ray. Weeden is not the
> answer and neither is Jason Campbell or Brian
> Hoyer. No sure things in this draft either. No
> Andrew Lucks. Oh...and there are 3 teams ahead of
> you that need a QB.
>
> Many careers are lost when you don't have one an
> can't find one. It's not as easy as it looks.
>
> Shanahan was a genius last year. This year....hit
> the bricks.
>
> Andy Reid....fired for not having one. Now he's a
> genius again with his QB in the Pro Bowl.
>
> and contrary to popular belief.....Cleveland does
> not rock!


I don't care about Farmer.

He's no better a lottery ticket than Gaine or any of the other guys we have interviewed.

The problem is that we are shopping at Walmart instead of Tiffany's because we are structuring our organization ass-backwards.

Tiffany's really? LOL

The elite GM's already have jobs. Those so-called top tier candidates may have a better pedigree but the fact remains that they are no more proven as "the man in charge" than the guys we interviewed.

Gamble, Pioli, DeCosta, Paton...etc

Even Scot McCloughan who has prior GM experience also has questions about major screw ups in SF.

DeCosta, even though he works for a very successful GM...is he better than a guy who worked for Parcels? It's all subjective.

Unless we can pry Ozzie from Baltimore or get Ron Wolf to be team president...it's all a crap shoot because we are projecting what a guy might do in the future.

No one can definitively tell me Brian Gaine WILL not be as good as a GM as DeCosta.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tiffany's really? LOL
>
> The elite GM's already have jobs. Those so-called
> top tier candidates may have a better pedigree but
> the fact remains that they are no more proven as
> "the man in charge" than the guys we interviewed.
>
> Gamble, Pioli, DeCosta, Paton...etc
>
> Even Scot McCloughan who has prior GM experience
> also has questions about major screw ups in SF.
>
> DeCosta, even though he works for a very
> successful GM...is he better than a guy who worked
> for Parcels? It's all subjective.
>
> Unless we can pry Ozzie from Baltimore or get Ron
> Wolf to be team president...it's all a crap shoot
> because we are projecting what a guy might do in
> the future.
>
> No one can definitively tell me Brian Gaine WILL
> not be as good as a GM as DeCosta.



There are no guarantees on any hire. In that regard there are all equal.

But some have a better resume, track record and/or reputation amongst people in the industry. Those guys should give you a better chance at avoiding failure.

None of them are even looking at this job because of the cock-eyed front office structure.

Heck, some of the (for want of a better term) "2nd tier" guys are walking away from a GM job because they realize its not really a GM job, is a director of scouting job...which they already have.

Everyone knows I'm no fan of Ross. (Bring back my logo 4 eyes!)

However the reason no one wants to come here is not because of him per say but his decision to keep Coach Philbin. You hire a GM you need a clean slate. Let them hire there people. That's just the way it goes. SO.........He is just going to have to dig deeper and get a guy who will come here because like the Lazor hire, is unproven at that level. Probably in house.

Ireland was a douchbag , but he got us some pretty decent talent and screwed up historically with J. Martin and this Oline. He kept our cap in check.

But we lost because the coaching sucked. That seems to be addressed at the most important positions. We are a better Team today. Who the GM is or isn't is on a different level that effects the future of this Team.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Let's give credit where credit is due....

Dawn Aponte kept our cap in check. Not Jeffy. We did not have all this extra cash before she got here. I believe we were quite strapped actually. Remember our 150 million dollar offensive line?

Ireland may have gotten us "some" talent but considering that was over a span of 6 years....not all that impressive when you look at who we still have.

We lost for many reasons. I would not blame it ALL on any phase of the team. Players, FO, Coaching, Owner all share equal blame.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's reported that Farmer has turned down the GM
> job and won't take the second interview.
> Anyone still want to defend that pathetic bumbling
> buffoon Steve Ross? He has made this team toxic as
> evidence by the fact that we can't even get a
> coach (harbaugh, fisher) or GM (Farmer, Licht,
> those other guys who refused to interview) to take
> his money to work here.
>
> Our next GM...Brian Gaine, who had a hand in
> building this wonderful team we see before us.

******************************************************

We can guess as to why all we want, but none of us here know exactly what is going on and what the reasons are, and the candidates and the Dolphins aren't saying.

I personally don't like the set up, and am guessing not many other GM candidates do either, but again, none of us know the real reason(s).

Truth wrote: The problem is that we are shopping at Walmart instead of Tiffany's because we are structuring our organization ass-backwards.

Based on your tendency to tow the company line -- this is an interesting assertion on your part. And it dovetails into my current series of "rants" to dump Philbin and have a clean slate moving forward through the GM hiring process. But of course it's (a) a bit too late for such a plan now and (b) such a plan violates the primary Ross directive -- do everything for "show" and perceived corporate glitter. This is apparently what he means by "best in class."

I think Ross is losing his appetite for owning this franchise in a hurry and would not be surprised by a sale sooner than later. I certainly hope that happens in an expedient manner. And I hope the new owner (or ownership group!) is genuinely a SFL group and not some carpetbagger like Ross.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2014 10:41AM by BigNastyFish.