Em i the only one freaking out about this? The phins have not been active in the corner market at all.... very few corners have been brought in for interviews... There is no way we can go into this season without a solid veteran opposite W.Allen. A rookie is not going to cut it.... Anyone else think there will be a solution to our problem before the draft? Or are we going to wait it out and see if anyone else gets cut?

I was one of the first to state concern when we let Goodman go. I'm actually doing ok, figuring the Trifecta have a plan. Funny how others (not just you) are freaking out about it on this board.

mcfadden signed with ARIZ, 2 years at 5 million per, so cross him off the list of potential phins. it's looking like we are expecting to get a starting CB in the draft, always a dicey proposition.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mcfadden signed with ARIZ, 2 years at 5 million
> per, so cross him off the list of potential phins.
> it's looking like we are expecting to get a
> starting CB in the draft, always a dicey
> proposition.

True, but maybe Jason Allen or Nathan Jones will rise to the occasion. They each showed promise from time-to-time last year. I'm starting to think one of those 2 will be a starter on day 1.

Jason Allen stinks. The coaching staff only played him when they were FORCED too.

Expect a trade or two inbetween now and the draft. Not for anyone of a big name stature. Just a small trade or two for some DB's.

Heard it here first!

I wouldn't say Jason Allen stinks. He is going into his 4th year. It is not uncommon for a corner to take a few years before hitting his stride. It is a difficult position.

He has faced a lot of criticism but mainly because Saban, the so called secondary "expert" reached for him and made him a first round pick (16 o/a) instead of waiting to get him in the 2nd round where he should have been taken. He was also the victim of two of the worst coaches in NFL history who couldn't decide which position he should play. He went throught the same thing in college as well. It's not like he has played corner his whole career.

It was a very weak draft to begin with but we did pass on Antonio Cromartie, Santonio Holmes, Nick Mangold, DeMeco Ryans, D'Qwell Jackson, Marcus McNeil, Maurice Jones Drew, Owen Daniels and Brandon Marshall.

Those players are the cream of the crop so if you look at it in perspective, the choice was not as bad as it seems. None of those players have set the league on fire. The Bills selected Donte Whitner at 8 overall for cryin out loud.

The 2006 draft sucked from top to bottom and there are average players scattered throughout the league.

Allen also had 36 tackles as a backup. Goodman had 39 tackles.

The staff see something in him or he would have been dealt or cut last year. They feel no obligation to him. He is signed thru 2012.

That being said, he has not been a great player but he is still an investment. One that the FO feels will pay off one way or the other. He has also been a very good special teams player.

The fact that we haven't signed a cornerback after we lost our starter should tell you something.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
> The fact that we haven't signed a cornerback after
> we lost our starter should tell you something.


I keep thinking the same thing about Allen. It would be such a boost tot this team if Allen could become a solid starter this year.

So everyone here expects we will not address this situation other than the draft.... if this is true, I can see myself p.oed after TO and Moss light us up for 150 yards each game when we play them.... sorry for the pessimism fellas but my expectations have grown exponentially and this secondary is something that def needs a lot of work... it will be the down fall of the season if we dont find a solution at corner

But the solutions at corner are pretty much signed with other teams.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Jason Allen did not stink. You need to back up your opinion, because a comment like that makes you lack credibility.

The rason they didn't play Jason Allen more is because they had 2 good starters, and Jason was still 'learning'.

This was the first season he spent 100% as a CB, and even that came at the end of Training camp. He 'almost' emerged from training camp as the starting Safety. ( watch..I'll back up my opinion)

On August 28th (at the end of TC) The following appeared in several news outlets (found on KFFL.com):

Barry Jackson, of The Miami Herald, reports the battle between Miami Dolphins free safeties Chris Crocker and Jason Allen for the starting job is still not settled. Crocker received the first-team snaps Tuesday, Aug. 26, but head coach Tony Sparano said he is "really impressed" with Allen.

So after spending all training camp as a safety and then being moved back to CB...when was he supposed to suplant the veteran starters who had worked through the off-season and TC as Corner?

When Jason Allen went in for an injured Will Allen...he played just as well as Will. He will now play on the other side in place of Goodman.

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barry Jackson, of The Miami Herald, reports the
> battle between Miami Dolphins free safeties Chris
> Crocker and Jason Allen for the starting job is
> still not settled. Crocker received the first-team
> snaps Tuesday, Aug. 26, but head coach Tony
> Sparano said he is "really impressed" with Allen.



Dude, I am not a Jason Allen hater.. but what the truth is is that Allen is nothing better than a Nickel corner... he got ate up by Randy Moss the week they were down in Miami... the truth is we need to bulk up the secondary... and the only way to do that is to absolutely nail our pick in the draft... if we dont we are screwed... or go after someone in free agency/trade.

Everyone got beat by Randy Moss. Who covered Randy 1 on 1?

Allen didn't play like a starter, granted; but, nor did he get to train like one.

we will see.

If he doesn't win the starting spot this season, I will wash my hands of him and admitt I was wrong.

> Dude, I am not a Jason Allen hater.. but what the
> truth is is that Allen is nothing better than a
> Nickel corner... he got ate up by Randy Moss the
> week they were down in Miami... the truth is we
> need to bulk up the secondary... and the only way
> to do that is to absolutely nail our pick in the
> draft... if we dont we are screwed... or go after
> someone in free agency/trade.


Are you kidding me?/ THAT is your justification?? He got ate up by "Randy Moss"?? Name one CB in the league that wouldn't... or hasn't. Randy Moss regularly beats double and triple coverage all game long, so basing an evaluation of a corner on how he performs against a WR like him is ridiculous.

grooves12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you kidding me?/ THAT is your justification??
> He got ate up by "Randy Moss"?? Name one CB in the
> league that wouldn't... or hasn't. Randy Moss
> regularly beats double and triple coverage all
> game long, so basing an evaluation of a corner on
> how he performs against a WR like him is
> ridiculous.

its one thing to loose a couple of plays to moss... but to the extent that J.Allen did is a staple of who he can be in the league... aka he is nickel corner.... i mean there is no doubt the guy has talent... but in a division that has Moss and TO we cannot afford to have J.Allen as a starting corner.

Pat Surtain. 1 year. 3mil. I'd take it.

we might be getting that desperate. Does Surtain have anything left?

He is coming off a season with injuries but prior to that he only missed 5 games due to injury in his entire career.

He went into last season as the starter and had 6 tackles and a PD in the first game (vs NE where Brady was injured). He got injured and was out for most of the season. He came back but still wasn't healthy. He cam back again in week 15 as the nickle corner and had an int and 50 yard return.

Keep in mind that he played on a team with absolutely no pass rush and a lousy defense. Jared Allen was the only pass rusher and he was traded and played for Minnesota last year.

I think, with a decent pass rush, he is as good of a corner as any FA to hit the market this year. He probably only has a year or so left before he will have to move to Free Safety.

Also...Pioli doesn't place much value on high paid CB's. They also already have a couple of good young corners in Brandon Flowers and Brandon Carr.

I think he would be a great addition.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

If we give Surtain $3 mill for a year then Ross should fire the entire front office. Seriously that would be worse than the Wilford deal. Surtain is a vet minimum type player IF anyone even signs him at this point.

Jason Allen has been a bust. He is bad. Very bad! 3 different coaching staffs can't be wrong!!!!!!!!

Then why didn't Ireland and Co. fire him (Allen) if they were so wrong?

It is so easy to criticize but I haven't heard you offer any reasonable solutions.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2009 07:22AM by eesti.

Defense is a total team effort. I felt like our linebackers couldn't find their way around and the defensive line was very inconsistent. When there is no pressure and when the defensive backs are running around after the slot receiver and tight-end bc the linebackers couldn't cover, then yes they look bad. There was bad reads by the defensive backs, but the bottom line is if the rush to the quarterback is there, then there is no time to give the receiver to run his route. That is why a great defense is a total team effort whereas some offensive players can make it on their own.

Mike O, you over exaggerate. And by doing so diminish the credibility of an otherwise defensible opinion.

Jason Allen is far from a bust or being very bad. In 2007 he lead our team in INT's and was one of our top tacklers, despite not starting many games.

If you are going to make strong statements, try to back them up with something OTHER THAN a stronger statement. It's weak, very weak.

I will agree with you on Surtain. If he was worth anywhere near $1 million he would have been signed by now.

teams are likely waiting till after the draft before they pick up guys like him.

MikeO Wrote:
> Jason Allen has been a bust. He is bad. Very bad!
> 3 different coaching staffs can't be wrong!!!!!!!!


And yet not one of the above mentioned coaches has seen fit to get rid of Jason. The current coaching staff has, however, seen fit to let half of last year's starting secondary (Renaldo Hill and Andre Goodman) leave the team via free agency. Somehow Jason Allen still has a job with the Dolphins. Maybe they feel that he is ready to blossom in his 4th year. He is only 25, so there should be plenty of football left in his body.

Obviously the FO is waiting for a bargain of the remaining FA's still available.

(Ages in 09)

Dre Bly, 32, years old, 5'10 188
Chris McAllister, 32 years old, 6'1 206
Leigh Bodden, 28 years old, 6'1 193
Pat Surtain, 33, 5'11 195

Beyond that tier of players, there are about 22 FA CB's available.

I did not include Pacman for obvious reasons.

I don't think they are counting on a rookie to come in and start so I think we will add one of these guys and draft another in the first two rounds.

BP drafted Ty Law in 1995 (23rd o/a) and he started 7 games, played in 14 and had 40 tackles and 3 int's.

Teams drafting DB's with BP as head coach....

Giants (1983-1990)
1983 10th o/a safety, 7th round
1984 5th round, 10th round
1985 3rd round, 6th round
1986 2nd round, 2nd round
1987 2nd round
1988 3rd, 8th, 10th
1989 3rd, 8th, 9th
1990 4th round

Patriots (1993-1996)
1993 4th, 6th
1994 6th
1995 1st (Ty Law), 3rd, 7th
1996 2nd (Lawyer Milloy)

Jets (1997-1999)
1997 5th, 7th
1998 3rd, 3rd
1999 5th

Cowboys (2003-2006)
2003 1st (Terrance Newman), 6th
2004 4th, 7th, 7th
2005 6th
2006 5th round

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

he led the 2007 team in INT's??? THE 2007 TEAM WON ONLY 1 game!!!!!

He has been tough to get rid of because he was the 16th overall pick and it wouldn't make CAP SENSE!!

8/7/2006: Jason Allen signed a six-year contract. The deal includes $7.8 million guaranteed and can be worth $24-30 million depending on escalators. 2006: $275,000; 2007: $660,000 (+ $4.6 million option bonus); 2008: $985,000; 2009: $1.31 million; 2010: $1.27 million; 2011: $980,000

His signing bonus was 15 mil.

While he is definitley overpaid, I don't think the cap hit is that restrictive. He counts 2.23 mil this year.

Vonnie Holliday counted 5.75 as he was cut.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

The fact that they only won 1 game is irrelevant when you are discussing a player being better than everyone else on the roster.

The 1-15 was affected by QB play, RB injury, WR anemia, LB injury, DE getting old. You have no argument. just a strong unfounded opinion.

While it is true that getting rid of him would require a CAP hit, that fact does not make it the reason he is still on the team.

I wonder, when he becomes the starter...are you going to come on here and admitt you were wrong?

I'd like to see the phins sign Leigh Bodden, then draft Sean Smith in the 1st rnd. Both players have great size, and pair them with head hunters Wilson and Bell would make a scary backfield... Secondary: problem solved

"I don't really care what happened in the past, I'm not afraid of challenges. I look forward to them." - T. Sparano