It is a big need. Crowder is consistent and thats it. He is not a playmaker at the position, though. We need a playmaking ILB.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a big need. Crowder is consistent and thats
> it. He is not a playmaker at the position, though.
> We need a playmaking ILB.

As long as Crowder is the WILB, then we won't have a playmaker inside. The SILB is not going to be a playmaker. It's not really part of that role on our defense. It's not glamorous. The SILB typically keys on the TE. If it's a run play, the SILB's main job is take on the RG so that the WILB and the SS are free to make the tackle. If it's a pass, the SILB has coverage responsibility. But, I'm not convinced that this front office thinks Akin Ayodele is bad at this role. And if they don't think he's bad, and they re-signed Crowder, then we're not likely to see a change next season.

There's an internet rumor (profootballcentral.com?) that we're close to signing LB Kevin Burnett, who I guess has played some ILB for Dallas. But, his size is questionable for playing inside (they say he is lighter than his listed weight of 242), and his success this year came as a blitzer. If we do sign him, he would seem like another guy to compete at SOLB.

I really do NOT think the Trifecta is that blind to think or ILB position isn't a point of need. Crowder made some last-minute concessions to re-sign. The Trifecta was ready to let him go. I don't think they're truly confident in him, and they have to recognize our lack of depth. Even if they think they can get a starter in the 5th round, I still think it's naive to say it's not a big need.

In fact, after signing Wade, I don't think OLB is really a big need at all. We have both starters returning, one which was 2nd in the league in sacks (Porter), the other is a converted DE but played well (Roth). Wade looks like he will a huge acquisition, and he's NOT likely to play inside. I also don't see Roth moving positions yet AGAIN (to ILB ). Twice it 2 years..NOT happening.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2009 05:26PM by montequi.

montequi Wrote:

>
> I have to disagree. Based on your argument, C,
> WR, and NT shouldn't be big needs either! All our
> starters are coming back to those positions as
> well, and we now have depth there too
> (Satele/Berger at C, Ginn/Bess/Camarillo/London at
> WR, Ferguson/Soliai at NT). We have no depth at
> ILB. Torbor makes more money than Ayodele, but
> couldn't beat him out. He also played terribly in
> the one game he started last year (KC). Ayodele
> also played terribly in the "Mike" position. So,
> if Crowder goes down AGAIN (what year has he NOT
> been injured?) what depth do we have at that ILB
> position?
>
> The only real position of need right now, based on
> your argument, is CB until we either re-sign
> Goodman or someone else. After Will Allen and
> Goodman, the talent drops off significantly.
> Jason Allen didn't change anyone's mind last year.
> He is a bust for a 1st rounder.


I guess I should have been more specific. We don't have a #1 WR, and we didn't have one all last season. We got by with a bunch of #3's. It's a major need. The team is not happy with Satele as the starter at C. They want someone bigger. Berger is not a C. He's a Guard. He doesn't add any depth at the C position. So, C is a big need. Jason Ferguson is old and injury prone. And Paul Soliai was suspended twice last seaon. The NT is the key to running the 3-4, and we need a future starter at the position.

Crowder was just re-signed to a big contract, so obviously the front office is happy with his play. They also traded for Akin Ayodele. And Jeff Ireland was in the front office for the Cowboys when they signed Ayodele to a big free agent contract. So, I'm thinking that they like him, too. And remember, Torbor started at an outside position for the Giants, so I don't know that he was ever really in competition with Ayodele. I think he wound up inside because of the Roth experiment. So, we have two ILB starters that the front office seems to like. And one of those starters comes off the field in obvious passing situations, so one position is not even really full time. I'm not saying it's not a position of need, because I believe it is. But, I agree with Barry Jackson that is not a big need at the moment.

Big needs at NT but not ILB? How can that be? Fergy is fine, we just need someone for when he is done. We need an SILB now. Ayodele got minimal tackles because he can't stay on the field for 3rd down. That's when we have to bring in Culver for the nickle.

We need a big hitting, play making SILB that is a 3 down LB'er. Crowder is very good on the weak side. He just does not force turnovers. He is fast (and big) and I really don't see the over pursuing and being a step late being an un-fixable problem. I also don't think he needs to move to the strong side but it would be good if he could alternate to either spot.

It was CC's first year in Pasqualoni's 3-4 so he will get more comfortable and start reacting and making plays instead of having to think so much. He is also responsible for calling the defensive plays. I think if he gets teamed up with the right SILB, they can dominate.

Did you see what Rex Ryan said about the signing of Bart Scott? It allows them (Harris and Scott..both 3 down LB's) to both alternate at "Mike" and disguise the defensive set because the offense won't know who is who. That's what the QB and Center key on to see what defense they are running.

We have seriously upgraded our secondary with the signing of Bell & Wilson. Now we need to upgrade the LBer's to go from the 15th ranked D into the top 5. I can't wait to see Wake and a new SILB.

The front 3 is probably not going to change much with the exception of Merling getting more playing time over Holliday. He showed his ability to make plays and force turnovers at the end of last season.

I am not worried too much about CB as I know we will fill the position. There is still several CB's available in FA. We are just waiting a few days for the smoke to clear from all the idiot over spenders.

Pass rush was the biggest need on Defense going into this off season. A consistent pass rush is the biggest help you can give to a secondary. As Michael Lombardi said, There are no shut down corners in the league any more. You HAVE to have a pass rush or the secondary is going to get toasted. Look what happened to Denver with Champ Bailey and Dre Bly. We signed Wake and George to help address that on the outside. At the very least they will give Anderson and Moses something to worry about.

Torbor needs to hit the road. He showed what he can't do last year when Crowder was hurt and makes WAY too much money to be a backup. Same for Charlie Anderson.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I really do NOT think the Trifecta is that blind
> to think or ILB position isn't a point of need.
> Crowder made some last-minute concessions to
> re-sign. The Trifecta was ready to let him go. I
> don't think they're truly confident in him, and
> they have to recognize our lack of depth. Even if
> they think they can get a starter in the 5th
> round, I still think it's naive to say it's not a
> big need.
>
> In fact, after signing Wade, I don't think OLB is
> really a big need at all. We have both starters
> returning, one which was 2nd in the league in
> sacks (Porter), the other is a converted DE but
> played well (Roth). Wade looks like he will a
> huge acquisition, and he's NOT likely to play
> inside. I also don't see Roth moving positions
> yet AGAIN (to ILB ). Twice it 2 years..NOT
> happening.


Obviously, Wake can't be counted on to be an impact player. You just never know how he's going to adjust coming from the CFL. And we are desperate for a better pass rush from outside. That's where the pressure comes from in the 3-4. And we can't count on Porter having the same kind of year. Wake is one guy who might help. Roth is really limited in what he can do at OLB because he is just too slow. He's not a long term answer at any position. The other thing to consider is that Porter is not a long term answer for this franchise either. He's 32 years old and his play really tailed off at seasons's end. Excluding his rookie season, Porter set career lows for tackles and passes defensed in 2008. In 4 of the last 7 games, he recorded one tackle or less (including the KC game where he did not register anything on the stat sheet). This team is building for 2010 and beyond, and is Porter likely to be part of that? Probably not. So, you are looking for someone else for Wake and Roth to compete with on one side, and someone to eventually replace Porter on the other side. And Parcells loves pass rushers. So, I wouldn't be surprised to see one taken by us early.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Big needs at NT but not ILB? How can that be?
> Fergy is fine, we just need someone for when he is
> done. We need an SILB now. Ayodele got minimal
> tackles because he can't stay on the field for 3rd
> down. That's when we have to bring in Culver for
> the nickle.
>
> We need a big hitting, play making SILB that is a
> 3 down LB'er.

Whoever plays SILB is coming off the field for 3rd down/nickel situations. That's how it works. You don't take out your outside guys, because they are your pass rushers. You don't take out the Mike, because he's your signal caller. So, when you need an extra corner on the field, the SILB is the first guy to head to the bench. And it will be that way with whoever plays the position.

I have to agree with Montequi. What's a need and what isn't? A lot of our starters are coming back. But you look to see if you can upgrade a position you had problems with last year. And we had problems defending the run. Opponants found that even plays designed for small gains got big yardage against us last year. We couldn't tackle. And I understand it's important to have a pass rush, but QB's do not have to drop back for the deep pass on every down. They hand the ball off, run screens, quick outs, etc, and if they're ball controlling like that, then they'll kill you. What good would it be to have Jason Taylor back if we can't stuff the run and dominate the line?

We picked up Wake. We can pick up more OLB's. But I agree that I don't think the quality for ILB is there.

The article you quoted Montequi also said we may pick up McKillop. I had linked it to the McKillop thread before I read this thread.

You should want all of the players to be playmakers no matter what position they play.

The argument of where they line up at is basically....crap.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Barry Jackson is not one of the better Dolphins sports writers, so I wouldn't take this guy seriously.

Obviously ILB, CB, WR, and NT are all needs. So Barry Jackson is high.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2009 06:59AM by ghotirule.

Thats not my point Ghotirule.....my point is, when you go after a player in free agency or the draft or trade, you go after a playmaker. Doesnt matter that he is a DT, WOLB, Nickel back...it doesnt matter, find a playmaker who when he steps out on the field he will make game changing plays.

Why did a DT just get a 100 Million dollar contract? Because he is a playmaker.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Gotta agree with montequi. And I posted a thread several onths ago saying ILB was our biggest need on Defense. That isn't to say that we don't need to improve the other areas, but, ILB is where we saw the least 'playmaking' and impact.

At corner, Jason Allen will likely start next season. When he came in for Will Allen he was very good. He has finally had 1 complete season at 1 position, and he is the reason they are letting Goodman go. We will likely sign FA depth or draft, but they did make plays.

DL? They made plays too. Ferguson is getting older, but he played well and Soliai will be better than last year. they can draft depth here.

Safety? Bell was very good, Hill was weak ( IMO), Bell made plays is signed, and we added Wilson.

ILB? How many sacks? How many tackles for a Loss in the middle? Thye made plenty of tackles. Stringing guys out to the sidelines is good, but too often on 3rd and short teams ran up the middle on us. Too many back-breaking long runs a clutch moments.


Crowder accepted a lower contract than he wanted. That contract reflects a guy who will be moved around and be challenged for his starting spot. Akin Ayodelle may find himself out of a starting spot. Crowder will return to being a 'swing' man, sliding to different LB positions when needed.

We still NEED a playmaker at LB. Someone who reads the play, takes the right angle, and explodes the RB at the LOS. Someone who gets 3-4 sacks a season.

I still say our 1st 3 picks will ILB, WR, Center.

I was also thinking about CC coming back. Last year was his first year in Pasq's system. He will be more reactive this year and not have to think so much so that could pay off in turnovers.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
> First off let me say that I was wrong when I
> called Crowder the WILB. He is the SILB or the
> "Mike" and lines up next to Roth (Sam). Ayodele
> plays the "Will" and lines up next to Porter
> (Jack).

No, you were originally correct. Crowder is the Mike. This is the WILB position in most 3-4 schemes. He lines up next to Porter the majority of the time, although he and Ayodele will flip-flop on occasion. The SILB is usually known as the "Ted," but again, this varies on the scheme. The Ted's responsibility is to key off the TE. If it's run, the Ted is supposed to take on the RG, allowing the SS to come up and make the play. If it's a pass, the Ted will usually have some sort of coverage responsibility on the TE. As a result, the Ted will always be less productive than the Mike.

I agree that we lacked playmaking from our ILB. But, to me, Crowder was the bigger problem in that area. He's never made plays at any position we've tried him. The fact that he is back is discouraging to me. I love his hustle, but I just don't think he's that good. The real question is what does this staff think of Ayodele. If they think highly of Ayodele, then I will say that ILB will not be considered a big need. They've brought Crowder back, so there is no upgrade there. And this is the same front office that signed Ayodele to a big contract in Dallas, and then traded for him in Miami. It leads me to believe they like Ayodele. So, I'm skeptical that they'll spend a high pick on an ILB to sit behind these guys. I do expect them to add an ILB in round 5 or later, someone to groom as an eventual replacement for when Ayodele's contract is up. But, I don't think the front office considers it a pressing need for the 2009 season. Just my opinion.

Crowder is better than most give credit for.

The times he was off the field we got torched. The KC game he missed we got torched. He was the heart and soul of our defense last year. We needed him back. Glad he re-signed

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder is better than most give credit for.
>
> The times he was off the field we got torched. The
> KC game he missed we got torched. He was the heart
> and soul of our defense last year. We needed him
> back. Glad he re-signed

Uh..you praise Crowder but you knock Zach? You can't have it both ways. Zach was 10x better than Crowder. When he wasn't injured 2 years ago, he was still better than Crowder. Crowder is not that great. The fact that he was missed is just a testament to how bad the rest of our ILBs are.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder is better than most give credit for.
> >
> > The times he was off the field we got torched.
> The
> > KC game he missed we got torched. He was the
> heart
> > and soul of our defense last year. We needed
> him
> > back. Glad he re-signed
>
> Uh..you praise Crowder but you knock Zach? You
> can't have it both ways. Zach was 10x better than
> Crowder. When he wasn't injured 2 years ago, he
> was still better than Crowder. Crowder is not
> that great. The fact that he was missed is just a
> testament to how bad the rest of our ILBs are.


I can have it both ways. This isn't 1999 anymore!!!And Zach WAS injured, you can't just ignore that fact. Zach Thomas was a good MLB. What is incorrect with that statement?? He isn't a hall of fame LB. He was a good LB. To say he was one of the great LB's of all time or of the last decade is incorrect.

ON the 2008 Fins (living in the present) Crowder was one of our best players on defense. When he wasn't on the field we hurt. The KC game was a prime example

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MikeO Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Crowder is better than most give credit for.
> > >
> > > The times he was off the field we got
> torched.
> > The
> > > KC game he missed we got torched. He was the
> > heart
> > > and soul of our defense last year. We needed
> > him
> > > back. Glad he re-signed
> >
> > Uh..you praise Crowder but you knock Zach? You
> > can't have it both ways. Zach was 10x better
> than
> > Crowder. When he wasn't injured 2 years ago,
> he
> > was still better than Crowder. Crowder is not
> > that great. The fact that he was missed is just
> a
> > testament to how bad the rest of our ILBs are.
>
>
> I can have it both ways. This isn't 1999
> anymore!!!

Zach was better than Crowder in 2006. In fact, Zach was better in 2006 than Crowder was last year.

Ghotirule, I think we are talking apples to oranges here. The point your trying to prove is different than the point I am trying to prove.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Torbor played OLB in a 4-3. That is not the same as OLB in 3-4.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Torbor played OLB in a 4-3. That is not the same
> as OLB in 3-4.

Yep! In fact, Crowder layed OLB in a 4-3 as well before we switched to a 3-4.