I think another LB would be good. who always seems to get a pass is misi.

he's invisible out there.

I agree Misi needs to go with wheeler, and we need to draft two stub lbers.

phinsfan402 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> Odrick is definitely much better against the pass
> than the run but he isn't horrible vs the run. He
> ranked in the top 10 of 4-3 DT by PFF, I think he
> has developed nicely.

"Not horrible" is not exactly a ringing endorsement. Odrick is a top 10 OVERALL DT according to PFF (mostly due to his pass rush) but he drops to 30th when talking about defending the run. Starks is 3rd vs the run and Solia is 12th. That's a huge difference from Odrick.

>
> > Starks is good at both. We need to resign him.
> I
> > think we need both as we don't have anyone else
> to
> > play the nose/one-technique in base defense.
>
> Both? Are you talking about Starks and Soliai OR
> Starks and Odrick?

I was referring to Starks and Solia.

> We will keep one and use a pick to replace the
> other and we'll be fine.

MUCH EASIER said than done. You're going to "replace" the 2nd best DT in the league with a rookie? That also means we now have (2) three-technique DT's and NO one-technique. They are hard to come by and you usually only find starting NT's high in the draft or you spend time developing them. We have other HUGE needs on the offensive line.

> > What we need is 2 LB's and about 4 o-linemen.
> We
> > need to go after Eugene Monroe in the OS.
>
> 2 LBs? We are stuck with Ellerbe and Wheeler for
> at least one more season so we might as well give
> them a shot to improve.

We are definitely screwed becuse of the stupid contracts they received but there are options if we have adequate replacements. The problem is we need to find them thru the draft so they are super cheap. Then we have incentive to get them to restructure or possibly make a trade. Ellerbe may offer value to a 3-4 team. One that was after him last year and lost out. Even for a 6th round pick just to get rid of his contract. Then we get Wheeler to restructure or pay him to to play ST and backup or cut him and take the cap hit.

> I'd say 1 LB, 1 DT, 4 OL, and maybe a S, while
> resigning Grimes, Starks/Soliai, and maybe
> Clemons.
>
> Eugene Monroe would be interesting. He is good
> but not elite, depends on the money.

Exactly. "Good" would be a huge upgrade over what we currently have and we can't afford "elite" with all our other needs and FA's. We still need a RT, LG and RG.

I would resign Starks and give him his money. We already have a 8.5 mil cap hit for him this year. We can lower the cap hit with an extension.

We can probably get Solia on the cheap, resign Grimes and make an offer to Clemons and Nolan Carroll. We do have 35 mil in cap space. All the other FA's are not hard to replace.

There is room to add Monroe and one other lineman. Maybe someone like Wade Smith (former dolphin released and turned probowler) or Travelle Wharton (Car) to play LG. Then draft a RG and RT....or

sign two tackles and draft the guards.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

phinsfan402 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Coyle admitted he called the wrong coverage on
> > that play. He was playing "prevent" to stop the
> > deep ball and they threw the mid range ball.
>
> #####That was the play at the end of the half. I
> thought cap was referring to the 4 and 10 carolina
> converted on their last drive.######

***************************************************

Yes, I was referring to the 4th and 10, pretty much the last series. I do recall Coyle saying he blew the coverage, but I am taking it for granted that he was talking about the whole last series. That 4th and 10, there was no one within 10 yards of the receiver when he caught it. That was either a breakdown in coverage, or what I believe, a prevent defense.
>
> > Odrick is getting very good but his best asset
> is
> > his pass rush. Problem is he plays next to
> Starks
> > in the nickle on passing downs. He is not
> nearly
> > as good vs the run as he is in passing
> > situations.
>
> Odrick is definitely much better against the pass
> than the run but he isn't horrible vs the run. He
> ranked in the top 10 of 4-3 DT by PFF, I think he
> has developed nicely.
>
> > Starks is good at both. We need to resign him.
> I
> > think we need both as we don't have anyone else
> to
> > play the nose/one-technique in base defense.
>
> Both? Are you talking about Starks and Soliai OR
> Starks and Odrick?
>
> We will keep one and use a pick to replace the
> other and we'll be fine.
>
>
> > What we need is 2 LB's and about 4 o-linemen.
> We
> > need to go after Eugene Monroe in the OS.
>
> 2 LBs? We are stuck with Ellerbe and Wheeler for
> at least one more season so we might as well give
> them a shot to improve.
>
> I'd say 1 LB, 1 DT, 4 OL, and maybe a S, while
> resigning Grimes, Starks/Soliai, and maybe
> Clemons.
>
> Eugene Monroe would be interesting. He is good
> but not elite, depends on the money.

> > eesti Wrote:

> "Not horrible" is not exactly a ringing
> endorsement. Odrick is a top 10 OVERALL DT
> according to PFF (mostly due to his pass rush) but
> he drops to 30th when talking about defending the
> run. Starks is 3rd vs the run and Solia is 12th.
> That's a huge difference from Odrick.

Didn't know those specifics, but it makes sense. While showing Odrick's vulnerability against the run, it also highlights how good he is against the pass.

> MUCH EASIER said than done. You're going to
> "replace" the 2nd best DT in the league with a
> rookie? That also means we now have (2)
> three-technique DT's and NO one-technique. They
> are hard to come by and you usually only find
> starting NT's high in the draft or you spend time
> developing them. We have other HUGE needs on the
> offensive line.

Agreed, it will be difficult to replace either of them. I would lean towards resigning Starks since he is more versatile. I think Starks could easily play the 1tech, remember he was going to our 3-4 NT before Soliai emerged and Starks plays the 1tech when he is on the field with Odrick. We don't really need a huge guy to play the 1tech, some teams prefer that but it is not really a requirement in a 4-3 like it is in a 3-4. Besides, I really don't think there will be a big market for Soliai. He hit the market a couple years ago and didn't find what he was looking for. And he's older now and he loves Miami.

> We are definitely screwed becuse of the stupid
> contracts they received but there are options if
> we have adequate replacements. The problem is we
> need to find them thru the draft so they are super
> cheap. Then we have incentive to get them to
> restructure or possibly make a trade. Ellerbe may
> offer value to a 3-4 team. One that was after him
> last year and lost out. Even for a 6th round pick
> just to get rid of his contract. Then we get
> Wheeler to restructure or pay him to to play ST
> and backup or cut him and take the cap hit.

If I remember correctly, I think most of the guaranteed money for both runs out after next season. At that point we should be able to cut or trade them without a big cap penalty. Because of this I think they will have a chance next year to prove their worth or they will be cut/restructed/traded. I think Jelani Jenkins could develop into a player. He had a lot of potential at UF but injuries held him back plus he left school early. Also, I've seen some flashes in his limited PT this season. What are your thoughts on him?

> Exactly. "Good" would be a huge upgrade over what
> we currently have and we can't afford "elite" with
> all our other needs and FA's. We still need a RT,
> LG and RG.

Agreed, we won't be handing out massive contracts to any OL this offseason and I think that's just good practice in general.

> I would resign Starks and give him his money. We
> already have a 8.5 mil cap hit for him this year.
> We can lower the cap hit with an extension.

Agree, pay the man.

> We can probably get Solia on the cheap, resign
> Grimes and make an offer to Clemons and Nolan
> Carroll. We do have 35 mil in cap space. All the
> other FA's are not hard to replace.

Agree here as well. Although Carroll wouldn't be hard to replace either.

> There is room to add Monroe and one other lineman.
> Maybe someone like Wade Smith (former dolphin
> released and turned probowler) or Travelle Wharton
> (Car) to play LG. Then draft a RG and RT....or
>
> sign two tackles and draft the guards.

Sign Monroe, draft a guard high, Pouncey, let Thomas/Garner/Brenner battle out the other guard spot, sign a vet at RT (winston finally?). I'd probably take another OL or two in the middle rounds for depth and the off chance we hit on one being a quality starter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2013 07:17PM by phinsfan402.

Winston has been terrible this year in AZ. -12.5

Carroll has really stepped up with increased playing time this year and carries a positive grade from PFF (+1.0). Not great but developing and a good 3rd or 4th corner.

Koa Misi is our best LB'er! He has not been spectacular but wanting to get rid of him instead of the other two makes no sense. He just signed a reasonable extension last year.

Actually adding one stud LB'er in the draft...Preferably in the middle would make everyone better.

On the season...

Ellerbe -7.7

Prospects in 2014 draft...CJ Mosley, Anthony Barr, Khalil Mack
Wheeler -9.8
Misi -1.0 (+3.0 vs the run)

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Unfortunately I don't think Tannehill is the answer unless he figures out how to improve hitting open receivers deep. Obviously need an O line overhaul

Should have traded for Monroe earlier in the season

Vernon has plated well. The Jury still out on Jordan and the whole 2013 drat class

GM has to go

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Winston has been terrible this year in AZ. -12.5

Ok, so definitely not him.

> Carroll has really stepped up with increased
> playing time this year and carries a positive
> grade from PFF (+1.0). Not great but developing
> and a good 3rd or 4th corner.

Yeah he has been noticeably better and I would like to see him back on a cheap deal but he's still not a priority this off season in my mind.

> Koa Misi is our best LB'er! He has not been
> spectacular but wanting to get rid of him instead
> of the other two makes no sense. He just signed a
> reasonable extension last year.

Yeah, I don't get that. Misi has been good not great, plus he has been playing hurt. He's a good player on a reasonable deal, nothing more nothing less.

> Actually adding one stud LB'er in the
> draft...Preferably in the middle would make
> everyone better.
>
> On the season...
>
> Ellerbe -7.7
>
> Prospects in 2014 draft...CJ Mosley, Anthony Barr,
> Khalil Mack
> Wheeler -9.8
> Misi -1.0 (+3.0 vs the run)

Wheeler has been horrible. Like I've been saying, I'd like to see Jelani Jenkins get a shot at that position.

Barr and Mack are 3-4 OLB pass rush types. Between Jordan, Vernon, and Wake I'd say we're fine at that spot right now.

Mosley is intriguing. I'd say he'd be best at WLB, which is what Wheeler plays. He'd probably be alright at MLB as well. However, Ellerbe and Wheeler are having the most trouble vs the run right now. Mosley is known for his very, very good pass coverage skills not his ability against the run. He is a little undersized as well and could have similar problems as our current LBs against the run.

I'd say take a MLB in the middle rounds and roll the dice on Ellerbe/Wheeler improving and maybe Jenkins emerging.

Barr is definitely a pass rusher type but Mack is projected as an OLB in either the 3-4 or 4-3. At 6'2 244 he would be undersized as 4-3 DE and slightly small for the 3-4 OLB as well. Possibly a great fit at any spot in the 4-3.

Barr just switched to defense after playing running back so he very raw but talented.

I'm not sure about the LB crop but we need to find next years Kiko Alonso, who was a 2nd round pick. We need a stud/playmaker in the middle to make it all come together.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Mack might be undersized but he has double digit sacks this season. The guy can rush the passer and he is very good at it. We could plug him into the 4-3 at LB but I don't know that it would best utilize his skills.

And Kiko Alonso is good but his play has tailed off lately. I'm sure he'll be a good player but he is no Luke Kuechly.