Been lurking for a while but I thought i'd post my thoughts after another rough loss.

1. The dolphins defense is so close to being really really good. We held SD to 16 last week and they just dropped 41 on the Chiefs D.

-Vernon and Odrick have made huge strides. Jordan is gonna be really good too. I think the dline is in good shape even if Starks and Soliai leave.

-Grimes has been a revelation but Reshad Jones has regressed. I'm also interested to see what the two rookies can do at corner.

-Ellerbe is gonna be fine. He has been playing injured all year. Wheeler is a disappointment, his play has been downhill since the colts game. He is average at best but jelani jenkins has shown flashes and he has always had potential.

2. Tannehill is the real deal. He has improved so much throughout this season. Just look at his improved pocket presence in the last game. His oline has sucked, he has no run game, but he still has kept us in every game but the one against NO.

-This is not to say Tannehill is a finished product but I have seen enough to believe he can be a perennial top 10 QB with potential to be more.


3. This team might go 8-8 and miss the playoffs but I would hate to see everything be blown up. The Martin-Incognito distraction cost this team at least one win and we are trending in the right direction. Plus we are VERY young.

I have been disappointed as much as anyone but we are closer to sustained success than I have seen since the Marino-shula days.

Do you really post this shite after what we just watched you closet you closet Cheatriots fan FU.

phinsfan402, don't mind finshady. he's got some serious issue with cam newton (probably f'd his girlfriend or something) and his mind is probably blown following this loss
hang around this board long enough and you'll find you are in the distinct minority with any optimistic take on this team....

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

thanks for the tip. To be clear, I wouldn't have a huge problem firing Ireland and Philbin as long as we bring in a staff that runs a similar offense and defense. I just think it would be incredibly stupid to convert back to a 3-4 at this point and make Tannehill learn a completely new system.

402, Tanny IS learning a new system now. He was not a pocket QB at TAM.

402...after seeing this game I agree on all points on 1. Defense is just a few players away. Needs 1 LB, a dominant DT maybe an extra corner and a Safety. Looks good everywhere else.

OTOH, I am starting to have MAJOR concerns about Tannehill. That last play of the game was very disheartening. Anyone with even a minor sense for the game would have ditched the ball upon seeing everyone was covered. I was screaming at him through the TV, throw it away, THROW it away! Unfortunately he didn't hear me and danced around like a clown as they swarmed him and the clock ticked to zero. He did make some decent plays during the course of the game, but I just don't see that "Winning " spirit that the greats have from Day 1. Overall, am I beginning to think we're gonna have to look elsewhere for a QB yet again.

Wallace...well the 60 million dollar man looks like he needs major repairs to his hands and eyes.

Hartline ...ho-hum

O-Line is a disaster.

TE's we can give a pass on this season

HB's get a pass too..even Eric Dickerson would have looked like a chump running behind this line.

We are headed towards a season full of mediocrity and Ireland/Philbin need to go.

toko34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 402...after seeing this game I agree on all points
> on 1. Defense is just a few players away. Needs 1
> LB, a dominant DT maybe an extra corner and a
> Safety. Looks good everywhere else.

nice. glad we can agree.

> OTOH, I am starting to have MAJOR concerns about
> Tannehill. That last play of the game was very
> disheartening. Anyone with even a minor sense for
> the game would have ditched the ball upon seeing
> everyone was covered. I was screaming at him
> through the TV, throw it away, THROW it away!
> Unfortunately he didn't hear me and danced around
> like a clown as they swarmed him and the clock
> ticked to zero. He did make some decent plays
> during the course of the game, but I just don't
> see that "Winning " spirit that the greats have
> from Day 1. Overall, am I beginning to think
> we're gonna have to look elsewhere for a QB yet
> again.
>
> Wallace...well the 60 million dollar man looks
> like he needs major repairs to his hands and eyes.

Well, he was never actually worth 60 mil, thats just the price you have to pay in free agency. He is still gonna have 1k yards this season and the work in progress chemistry with Tannehill has left at least a handful of big plays on the field. He will only live up to this contract if him and Tannehill can develop some chemistry.

> Hartline ...ho-hum

> O-Line is a disaster.
>
> TE's we can give a pass on this season
>
> HB's get a pass too..even Eric Dickerson would
> have looked like a chump running behind this
> line.

Well, why should the horrible oline play only excuse the RBs? Shouldn't Tannehill get some benefit of the doubt for having to play behind horrid pass protection?

Also, I can understand your hesitation about Tannehill. He is not ready yet, I just feel that I have seen enough to think that he will get there.

As for most great QBs having a "winning spirit" or the "it" factor you are referring to, I have to disagree somewhat. Sure, the Lucks, Mannings, and Bradys all show that quickly but Brees, Eli, Big Ben, Flacco, Rodgers, and Rivers took a while to come into their own or started their careers with great teams that carried them. And I don't know about you but I'm not expecting Tannehill to be the next Manning or Brady, I just want him to be a consistent top ten QB and anything on top of that is gravy.

Actually this was Tanny's best game this season for me despite the loss.

Wallace needs to refuse his paycheck for that last pass.

Yeah, Tanny underthrew him on other long balls but that was catchable and hit him right in the hands. Plus it was a crucial situation. Desperation.

Just like Bowel Movement, he drops the ball at the most crucial moment.

I can hear Chad Henne saying to Tanny, 'see what I mean?'

I just think Tannehill makes poor/bad decisions and takes to long to decide who to throw to.

He will never be any better then what you see......

Well, that very last play was bad on Tanny's part but partially redeemed because he could not throw it away since it was the last play but, on the other hand, a hail mary into the endzone would not have hurt.

davdoldew4 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just think Tannehill makes poor/bad decisions
> and takes to long to decide who to throw to.

Valid points.

> He will never be any better then what you
> see......

Bullshit. This is just your disappointment in the game today and the season so far talking. Tannehill is significantly better than last season and significantly better than he was at the beginning of the season. He lost his safety net (keller) in pre-season. He lost other safety net (gibson) a few weeks ago. The run game has been spotty at best. The pass protection has been awful on almost every single drive.

There is no reason to think he will not continue to improve.

I think he has improved fairly dramatically and he will continue. In the offseason, I believe he'll put some specific focus on pocket awareness and movement in the pocket and his deep passes, very real weak points this season.

Last season, he was trying to get over locking onto a receiver and batted balls and work on accuracy...he got better. Now, he distributes the ball much better and has a much stronger command of the position and offense.

My biggest concern is that he hasn't shown the kill instinct regularly enough (hate to agree with Omar, but when it's true it's true). We leave a lot of points on the field (separate issue), but when it's closing moments of a close game, it's on the QB to make things happen on the field.

I agree he has improved and not just a little. He still has points to work on but when two of your top receiving targets are gone for the year, your O-Line, for lack of a better word, stinks, you have zero running game much more often than not, you are leading the league in hurries and sacks, and your O-Coordinator is inconsistent. you are not going to look as good as you could.

Add to all of that the scandal, the drops, and your own mistakes, you are left with what you see.

The team has a lot of work to do this off season...but we do have talent and the players to be in the top 10% of the league...we just have to put things together. So far we have not. Dissapointing I know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2013 03:00AM by Ken.

Were you guys watching the same game I watched???? YEA, Wallace got his hands on that last long ball and yea, a $60 million receiver SHOULD to make that tricky adjustment/tough play... BUT THE FREAKING THING WAS THROWN BACK AND TO THE RIGHT WHEN HE HAD HIS MAN BEAT BY THREE STEPS RUNNING WIDE OPEN TO HIS LEFT?!?!?!? T'Hill ALSO missed him long for another sure TD in the second half and on the drive that had to be kept alive by the iffy challenge he didn't even see Hartline WIDE OPEN down the field which would have most likely (had he been able to throw the ball anywhere near Hartline) another TD. When IMPORTANT games are on the line and you can't make those throws...come on.

Other than that, yea, the Panthers adjusted at the half and, as usual, we didn't. From half time on, we were out called, out coached and out executed. This is one of those games that a team on the upswing HAS to be able to win. We are NOT on the upswing. damn, now I get to go to a meeting with 3-4 crowing Panther fans.

tannehill has no Oline and no running game....


Put brady on this team and he will struggle as well.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tannehill has no Oline and no running game....
>
>
> Put brady on this team and he will struggle as
> well.

no kidding. thank god we didn't win the manning sweepstake. he'd be in a wheelchair by now.

in tannehill I see 2nd year qb with no oline, no running game, no commitment to anything on offense, a guy that lost his TE and slot wr, keeping us in games. I also see him making mistakes that young qbs make.

Honestly, what were everyone's expectations this year? Is there a prediction thread? my guess is that everyone had us between a 7-9 - 9-7 type team. You know what? that's exactly what we are.

the same flaws were there in the 3-0 start. we just happened to come out on the winning end of those games. tanne was getting killed, we had no running game, we had no offensive identity. we just made a few more plays in the end.

There was a prediction thread. Look at the "Flashback" thread. Most expectations had us at 10-6 or 11-5 with some expectations for winning the division.
In reality, we have been beat convincingly by rookie head coaches with third string QBs on two occasions.
Now can you understand the disappointment?

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tannehill has no Oline and no running game....
> >
> >
> > Put brady on this team and he will struggle as
> > well.
>
> no kidding. thank god we didn't win the manning
> sweepstake. he'd be in a wheelchair by now.
>
> in tannehill I see 2nd year qb with no oline, no
> running game, no commitment to anything on
> offense, a guy that lost his TE and slot wr,
> keeping us in games. I also see him making
> mistakes that young qbs make.
>
> Honestly, what were everyone's expectations this
> year? Is there a prediction thread? my guess is
> that everyone had us between a 7-9 - 9-7 type
> team. You know what? that's exactly what we are.
>
>
> the same flaws were there in the 3-0 start. we
> just happened to come out on the winning end of
> those games. tanne was getting killed, we had no
> running game, we had no offensive identity. we
> just made a few more plays in the end.


Thats exactly right!!!!!!!


BTW we have been in a lot of close games this year.


Clavo has got to be the worst starting right tackle in this league.


Next years draft we need to concentrate on OLIne and receivers...


Thats where we are the most vulnerable...OL.

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a prediction thread. Look at the
> "Flashback" thread. Most expectations had us at
> 10-6 or 11-5 with some expectations for winning
> the division.
> In reality, we have been beat convincingly by
> rookie head coaches with third string QBs on two
> occasions.
> Now can you understand the disappointment?

Hey, 10-6 is still mathematically possible

Love your optimism.
In reality, we MIGHT equal last season's record and, that's with the most improved QB in the league and, 100 million spent in the offseason to surround him with weapons.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Were you guys watching the same game I watched????

Yes, I think so.

>YEA, Wallace got his hands on that last long ball
> and yea, a $60 million receiver SHOULD to make
> that tricky adjustment/tough play... BUT THE
> FREAKING THING WAS THROWN BACK AND TO THE RIGHT
> WHEN HE HAD HIS MAN BEAT BY THREE STEPS RUNNING
> WIDE OPEN TO HIS LEFT?!?!?!?

Well, Tannehill bombed it about 65 yds and got hit right after releasing the ball. On a play like that I think it was an acceptable throw. He gave Wallace a chance to win the game.

>T'Hill ALSO missed
> him long for another sure TD in the second half
> and on the drive that had to be kept alive by the
> iffy challenge he didn't even see Hartline WIDE
> OPEN down the field which would have most likely
> (had he been able to throw the ball anywhere near
> Hartline) another TD. When IMPORTANT games are on
> the line and you can't make those throws...come
> on.

Yeah, Tannehill definitely left some throws on the field. He simply isn't very accurate with the deep ball at this point in his career. Deep ball accuracy is one of the most difficult skills for a QB and it will take time for Tannehill to get that down.

> Other than that, yea, the Panthers adjusted at the
> half and, as usual, we didn't. From half time on,
> we were out called, out coached and out executed.
> This is one of those games that a team on the
> upswing HAS to be able to win. We are NOT on the
> upswing. damn, now I get to go to a meeting with
> 3-4 crowing Panther fans.

Yeah, we were outexecuted and then outcoached. We simply do not play well with a lead which is strange considering how good our pass rush is.

Things I think:

I think we are going to be lucky to get to .500 just like I said in August.

phinsfan402 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been lurking for a while but I thought i'd post my
> thoughts after another rough loss.
>
> 1. The dolphins defense is so close to being
> really really good. We held SD to 16 last week
> and they just dropped 41 on the Chiefs D.
>
> -Vernon and Odrick have made huge strides. Jordan
> is gonna be really good too. I think the dline is
> in good shape even if Starks and Soliai leave.
>
> -Grimes has been a revelation but Reshad Jones has
> regressed. I'm also interested to see what the two
> rookies can do at corner.
>
> -Ellerbe is gonna be fine. He has been playing
> injured all year. Wheeler is a disappointment,
> his play has been downhill since the colts game.
> He is average at best but jelani jenkins has shown
> flashes and he has always had potential.

****************************************************

Our defense has the makings of being good, but something is missing; they just can't play consistent (except in crunch time, when they fold). Not so sure about them being good if Soliai and Starks leave. IMO, Soliai is the key to our run defense. Not too many RBs can go thru the middle because of him. Starks is also a good player, but more than likely he is going to want big buck after the season is over and I don't think Miami will give it to him.

Grimes has been just like the rest of the D - very inconsistent. He has played very well in certain games, then in others (i.e., Panthers) not so good. I would want to keep him after this season is up, but if he is looking for an outrageous payday, not so sure that is going to happen. We are all interested to see what the two rookie corners can bring, but they rarely get on the field, so who knows what they have? I guess that will just have to wait until the off season workouts begin.

I think BOTH ILBers have a lot of work to do. Too many long runs happen in their territory, with Wheeler missing a lot of tackles. Truthfully, I'm not sure what we have in those two.

***************************************************
>
> 2. Tannehill is the real deal. He has improved
> so much throughout this season. Just look at his
> improved pocket presence in the last game. His
> oline has sucked, he has no run game, but he still
> has kept us in every game but the one against NO.
>
> -This is not to say Tannehill is a finished
> product but I have seen enough to believe he can
> be a perennial top 10 QB with potential to be
> more.

*******************************************************

I like Tanneyhill, but as far as calling him the "real deal" I'm not so sure. What has been holding him back from launching the ball downfield to Wallace...coaches keeping a leash on him; not enough confidence in his ability to get it down there (i.e., scared of interceptions); no confidence in his offensive line to protect him long enough to set his feet and let it fly? Strange that it took Philbin ten games to finally tell RT to just let it fly.

****************************************************
>
>
> 3. This team might go 8-8 and miss the playoffs
> but I would hate to see everything be blown up.
> The Martin-Incognito distraction cost this team at
> least one win and we are trending in the right
> direction. Plus we are VERY young.
>
> I have been disappointed as much as anyone but we
> are closer to sustained success than I have seen
> since the Marino-shula days.

**********************************************

Yeah, Miami could go 8-8, but I highly doubt it. When the offense has at least two drives that put them in range and all they come out with is 6 points instead of 14, that ain't gonna cut it (which is what happened vs Carolina). Miami gets TDs on those two drives, Caleb's missed FG means nothing and Carolina does not win the game. And back to your defense comments -- they allowed the Panthers to drive right down the field and get in FG range. Was it Coyle that called the prevent defense? I don't know, but if they had played their normal game, it is very possible Cam could not have gotten them into FG range to tie the game. Go "prevent" when all the team needs to tie it up is 3 points?

I don't really think the Martin-Incognito fiasco has anything to do with the Fins losing. They had been losing the same way prior to the eruption.

Agreed, this team can't be blown up. For the fans, that would mean (probably) another 4-5 years of losing. I've watch this team lose for too long and am getting tired of it. Get a football guy to help Ross get new GM and HC, and get one's that could keep most of the team intact and keep the system in place, with a few tweaks here and there. That would help the transition.

Yes, the team is very young, but IMO, I don't think the coaches are developing the young guys very well, and evidently Ireland didn't draft/sign the right guys. Most of this year's draft has been sitting on the sidelines. That's not the way to build a winner.

Much work needs to be done during the off season.

Well it is not to hard a concept to grasp. Philben is a horrible coach who has zero passion and is way to conservative.

captkoi Wrote:
> Our defense has the makings of being good, but
> something is missing; they just can't play
> consistent (except in crunch time, when they
> fold). Not so sure about them being good if Soliai
> and Starks leave. IMO, Soliai is the key to our
> run defense. Not too many RBs can go thru the
> middle because of him. Starks is also a good
> player, but more than likely he is going to want
> big buck after the season is over and I don't
> think Miami will give it to him.

Good points. I'd guess we resign one of them. Soliai is going to be cheaper but Starks is a bit better due to his pass rushing ability. Also I think we draft a DT fairly high to replenish depth.

> Grimes has been just like the rest of the D - very
> inconsistent. He has played very well in certain
> games, then in others (i.e., Panthers) not so
> good. I would want to keep him after this season
> is up, but if he is looking for an outrageous
> payday, not so sure that is going to happen. We
> are all interested to see what the two rookie
> corners can bring, but they rarely get on the
> field, so who knows what they have? I guess that
> will just have to wait until the off season
> workouts begin.

Well, Grimes had his worst game of the year against Carolina so be careful of recency bias. He has been fairly consistent this season and has still not allowed a TD in his coverage. My only real complaint with Grimes is his shoddy tackling. I'm not sure what kind of contract he will be wanting but he is on the wrong side of thirty so he isn't getting close to Revis money. I'd guess he is in line for 4 yrs at 8 mpy and thats a deal I'd make.

> I think BOTH ILBers have a lot of work to do. Too
> many long runs happen in their territory, with
> Wheeler missing a lot of tackles. Truthfully, I'm
> not sure what we have in those two.

Agreed, easily the weakest link on the defense.

> I like Tanneyhill, but as far as calling him the
> "real deal" I'm not so sure. What has been
> holding him back from launching the ball downfield
> to Wallace...coaches keeping a leash on him; not
> enough confidence in his ability to get it down
> there (i.e., scared of interceptions); no
> confidence in his offensive line to protect him
> long enough to set his feet and let it fly?
> Strange that it took Philbin ten games to finally
> tell RT to just let it fly.

I'd say the lack of deep passes is a direct reflection of the oline not giving Tannehill enough time. Also, the lack of a run game kills the PA pass which was responsible for most of Wallace's success in Pittsburgh.


> Yeah, Miami could go 8-8, but I highly doubt it.
> When the offense has at least two drives that put
> them in range and all they come out with is 6
> points instead of 14, that ain't gonna cut it
> (which is what happened vs Carolina). Miami gets
> TDs on those two drives, Caleb's missed FG means
> nothing and Carolina does not win the game. And
> back to your defense comments -- they allowed the
> Panthers to drive right down the field and get in
> FG range. Was it Coyle that called the prevent
> defense? I don't know, but if they had played
> their normal game, it is very possible Cam could
> not have gotten them into FG range to tie the
> game. Go "prevent" when all the team needs to tie
> it up is 3 points?

Well, let's not forget that Carolina has one of the best defenses in football. We won't face a defense close to that level for the rest of the season.

I don't think it was prevent defense, we just didn't blitz. Cam had been killing us on the blitz all game so I think we just played it straight up. We had them at 4th and 10 and blew it. Carroll dropped an INT as well. The defense just didn't make enough plays which is why I've said I think we are close to being really good on defense but we aren't there yet.

> I don't really think the Martin-Incognito fiasco
> has anything to do with the Fins losing. They had
> been losing the same way prior to the eruption.

Disagree. That fiasco cost us the Bucs game without a doubt. Plus the lack of cohesion on the oline had been killing us all season.

> Agreed, this team can't be blown up. For the fans,
> that would mean (probably) another 4-5 years of
> losing. I've watch this team lose for too long and
> am getting tired of it. Get a football guy to help
> Ross get new GM and HC, and get one's that could
> keep most of the team intact and keep the system
> in place, with a few tweaks here and there. That
> would help the transition.

Completely agree. Problem is, it's tough to find a GM and HC that would agree to that. Most would want to come in and do their own evaluation and make their own changes. Also, we are at a tricky time for cap space. Ireland and DA have their plan for these contracts including times we could cut bait without much dead cap space. A new GM would be coming in blind and very well could lead us into cap hell.

> Yes, the team is very young, but IMO, I don't
> think the coaches are developing the young guys
> very well, and evidently Ireland didn't draft/sign
> the right guys. Most of this year's draft has been
> sitting on the sidelines. That's not the way to
> build a winner.

This is where I disagree the most. Odrick has turned from an average player into a top 10 DT. Vernon has developed from a project into an above average DE with still more upside. Reshad Jones blossomed last season. Chris Clemons has become a solid player. Dmitri Patterson has had a career year when healthy. Burnett and Dansby basically resurrected their careers last season. Kao Misi turned from a marginal player to a very good SOLB. Hartline flourished, Tannehill has significantly improved, Charles Clay finally lived up to his potential. Coaches turned Egnew from a bust into a useful player in certain packages. Gibson went from zero slot experience into one of the best slot WR in the NFL. John Jerry went from fat slob to average. Pouncey has continued to develop into an elite C.

Sure other guys have underperformed but the coaches and Ireland have identified plenty of talented players and coached them up into useful players.

> Much work needs to be done during the off season.

Agreed, there is always work to be done in the off season.

Coyle admitted he called the wrong coverage on that play. He was playing "prevent" to stop the deep ball and they threw the mid range ball.

Odrick is getting very good but his best asset is his pass rush. Problem is he plays next to Starks in the nickle on passing downs. He is not nearly as good vs the run as he is in passing situations.

Starks is good at both. We need to resign him. I think we need both as we don't have anyone else to play the nose/one-technique in base defense.

What we need is 2 LB's and about 4 o-linemen. We need to go after Eugene Monroe in the OS.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coyle admitted he called the wrong coverage on
> that play. He was playing "prevent" to stop the
> deep ball and they threw the mid range ball.

That was the play at the end of the half. I thought cap was referring to the 4 and 10 carolina converted on their last drive.

> Odrick is getting very good but his best asset is
> his pass rush. Problem is he plays next to Starks
> in the nickle on passing downs. He is not nearly
> as good vs the run as he is in passing
> situations.

Odrick is definitely much better against the pass than the run but he isn't horrible vs the run. He ranked in the top 10 of 4-3 DT by PFF, I think he has developed nicely.

> Starks is good at both. We need to resign him. I
> think we need both as we don't have anyone else to
> play the nose/one-technique in base defense.

Both? Are you talking about Starks and Soliai OR Starks and Odrick?

We will keep one and use a pick to replace the other and we'll be fine.


> What we need is 2 LB's and about 4 o-linemen. We
> need to go after Eugene Monroe in the OS.

2 LBs? We are stuck with Ellerbe and Wheeler for at least one more season so we might as well give them a shot to improve.

I'd say 1 LB, 1 DT, 4 OL, and maybe a S, while resigning Grimes, Starks/Soliai, and maybe Clemons.

Eugene Monroe would be interesting. He is good but not elite, depends on the money.