The way Tampa was ripping off huge runs, could Jordan of done any worse? Sometimes you gotta let the young guys sink or swim, look what Rishard Mathews did Monday night with some playing time. I agree with Colonel, you use two high draft picks on a guy, you better be willing to play him. Hopefully he developes into one of the best someday........

I thought this was a wasted pick when it was made. I still feel that way.

"Dion is a tall, lanky guy with long arms and exceptional quickness"

Sounds like a description of Jason Taylor. JT was pretty good against the run, if I remember correctly.

yes, but Jason actually got a chance to play

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> The way Tampa was ripping off huge runs, could
> Jordan of done any worse? Sometimes you gotta let
> the young guys sink or swim, look what Rishard
> Mathews did Monday night with some playing time. I
> agree with Colonel, you use two high draft picks
> on a guy, you better be willing to play him.
> Hopefully he developes into one of the best
> someday........

*******************************************

That's what I was going to say, dolphaholic. Look at the rushing against numbers. What was it with TB - 150+ yards they gained on the Fins?

You gonna tell me that Jordan would do worse? Highly doubtful.

Miami traded up to the 3rd slot to get the guy - unless he is still recovering from that shoulder injury, play the kid!

I mentioned in an earlier post...where does the fault lie with our draft picks not seeing the field much - Ireland for picking the wrong guys, or Philbin and his coaching staff for not getting these guys NFL ready so they can contribute on Sundays?

dolphin Wrote:
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> I thought this was a wasted pick when it was made.
> I still feel that way.

*************************************

20/20 hindsight is great, but Jordan, IMO, could be the player Ireland envisioned...IF THE COACHES WOULD PUT HIM ON THE FIELD.

Nine plays vs TB? Give me a break.

dolphin Wrote:
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> yes, but Jason actually got a chance to play

PRECISELY! They did all that "Jason Taylor" talk on draft day so I ASSUMED they were going to make him an every down lineman.

Can't see you drafting someone number 3 OVERALL to be a situational player.

AND Colonel, Martin and Pouncey each started as rookies and they were not drafted as high as Dion Jordan.

You're right. The injury thing we don't know about but if he is playing at all, then he should be playing all the time and if he is not playing all the time, it's because in their judgement, he is only good in certain situations and that leads back to the prior comment.

3rd pick of the entire draft and he's only used for passing downs...Waste of a pick that high IMO. Seems like they're coddling him.

Kind of like drafting a kick returner #8.

Whoa, Tanny was the last player we drafted at #8. Was he a kick returner or am I reading too much into this? Had you said drafting a receiver at no. 8, I could see it.

ginn was #9. however the point is valid. only this team takes a top 10 #1 with the expectation that he will play just a few snaps

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Oh, thanks. I was confused with the 8, given the recency of Tanny.

Jordan's lack of playing time says it all. If his shoulder is still injured --- well, that is one slow-healing shoulder.... And nobody is talking about a timeframe for healing, so I don't think his shoulder has anything to do with it. I think he's having trouble getting on the field only because the coaches think he is more of a liability than a threat. I see him getting pressure with his speed-rush at times.. but he isn't overpowering anyone and he doesn't appear to have a swim-move, spin-move, or anything of the sort. He's shown very good speed but not much else. He doesn't have Jason Taylor-type strength. (JT was remarkably strong for his frame). Halfway through the season you would hope he'd be at least a standout rookie in the league... but he's a lot less than that. The critics warned he might be a one-trick pony and I can only hope they are wrong. Right now, and I'm sad to say it, but he's a "project".

One thing is certain, we don't know what his coaches are really thinking about his potential. What is revealing is Coyle's comment to the effect that the running game is not his strength.

Does that also mean that he isn't capable of covering a TE or slot receiver when he is in the game but doesn't rush. Or, are they saying, when he is in the game all he will do is go at the QB. Isn't that as dopey as using "Go" and "Go-GO, to signal what we are about to do? Wouldn't it be a little deceptive to not telegraph what we always do?

ChryenB's wife could easily decipher game tactics according to him despite the fact she knows little about the game. So, logically, the opposing QB will always know that pressure will come from the side Jordan is on. Maybe that's why he doesn't make it to the QB when he does play. If he were an all down player, he could switch coverages when appropriate.

We also substitute other players for so called "specialists" who aren't better than the guy running off the field. It's like taking Alvin York out off the front line, and replacing him with Gomer Pyle, when the replacement should be one of the same caliber as York, say, Audie Murphy.

Don't telegraph your plan.

Would it shock you to know Derrick Shelby has played more snaps than Cameron Wake? How about the fact that Vernon has played more than either? Vernon has played 532 snaps to Wakes 309. Only 177 were pass rush snaps for Wake.

Shelby is the best against the run by a wide margin. Wake is the best against the pass by a huge margin. Jordan is 2nd best vs the pass.

All carry a positive grade EXCEPT Vernon who is negative in every major category but he is better than Shelby as a pass rusher.

There are actually no quality impact players taken in the first 12 picks this year. Ironically, the two taken directly after Miami's original draft position (12) are the biggest impact players. Sheldon Richardson and Star Lotulelei....and we have only one decent starting DT in 2014.

Ireland refused to sign Starks even though he has performed every year. He is the 2nd highest rated DT/NT in the league to only Gerald McCoy. Jared Odrick is 11th. Once again this has back fired on him. He chose to sign Reshad Jones and he is in a backspin.

We MAY be better off in the long run with Dion Jordan but in 6 months we will be trying to find a DT to play along side Jared Odrick. That could have been Star Lotu, who is ranked 12th as a rookie...and we would have still had our 2nd round pick in 2013.

Would you rather have 12th ranked Star Lotu and 8th ranked Kiko Alonso (+5.9) at MLB or Dion Jordan?...with a huge contract to the 23rd ranked Dannelle Ellerbe (-1.3)???

Jordan will probably be a very good pass rusher and playing in coverage....but he may never be good vs the run.

Ireland made huge moves this year. Some that were highly unexpected like Ellerbe and 34th ranked, Wheeler (-11.6). Those backfired as well. Burnett ranks 13th with a +1.3...and plays on a team worse than Miami.

He needs to go PERIOD. No more excuses for this guy.

If he had any insight into talent we would have this lineup for this year and the future....

SLB Misi, MLB Alonso, WLB Burnett

DT's...Starks, Odrick, Lotulelei (Solia in 2013)

and throw Jake Long and Reggie Bush back on the roster and Larry Warford at RG. He was drafted in round 3-65 and is ranked 7th with a +9.0 rating.

Hell...just find one of those players...FOR ONCE!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

It's ridiculous to have guys where one plays the run and another plays the pass. How predictable does our defense have to be? I'd rather we traded some of our extra DEs to shore up our weaker positions and give guys a chance to develop into 3-4 down linemen. I'd like to see Wake on the field for 3 downs. Then pick between Jordan, Vernon, and Shelby...and trade away the guy you don't want to use.

Another reason Ireland needs to go.

When you trade up to take a guy at #3 overall, he had better be ready to play now and play well.

If he is a) hurt b) not ready to contribute in all facets of the game or c) both, as has been the case with Jordan, then you don't trade up to take him at #3 overall.

That depends on the draft and the talent pool. There have been years where the entire top of the draft have been flops. If the first two rounds are weak then you still take the BPA. Jordan may still turn out to earn his spot. No way you pass up on a franchise player because he's going to need a little seasoning.

For instance, you don't take Vernon Carey at 12 and Matt Roth at 42 if you think can trade up for a Jason Taylor at 3. This draft was void of stars at the top and had many unproven workout warriors.

Jason Taylor wasn't Jason Taylor until his 4th year but I wouldn't pass him up.

Jury still out on Jordan BUT not Ireland.

What the hell happened to Matt Roth anyway?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Bear in mind that JT was a 3rd round pick and Dion Jordan was pick No. 3 overall. Hard to compare the two when JT clearly exceeded everyone's expectations. DJ should compare well with other high first round draft picks but he hasn't. Bottom line is that he's a disappointment and an underachiever and that is on the person who made the decision to draft him.....or the coaching staff that isn't using him or developing him properly.

Prior to the draft, I saw DT as a linebacker who would excel at pass coverage (esp. RB's and TE's), to counter NE's strengths.... And could put great pressure on the QB in certain blitz packages. But he would have to develop his run support to get on the field enough to be used effectively.... And that hasn't happened.

JT was "too lanky"/"didn't have NFL size", but he earned a starting spot in his first year and was a standout rookie. He soon became recognized as an elite player, pro bowler, etc.

all I can say is if we took a DT in the 1st round there would have been a mutiny. Not one person here was saying to take Star L or Sheldon Richardson before the draft. Just like back in 2007 no one was calling for Pat Willis at 9, although a few say so now! Hindsight is 20/20, but that's why Ireland makes the big bucks---he should know more than the posters on this board, but it sure seems like he doesn't. Let's see a little foresight from Ireland for once. Actually, let's not, because I don't want him making one more personnel decision for this team

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Let me sum up this post:

Ireland is and idiot and so is Philbin.

Yea....I'd say that is pretty accurate

Pick was bad when they made it. half the guys that were picked were injured.

I could see him at linebacker

colonel Wrote:
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> KB--short and sweet, but not sure I agree with
> your "idiot" reference to either men. I know
> you're using the term as a figure of speech. It
> reminds me of an old joke I heard about insanity
> and stupid.
>
> A guy was driving his car and got a flat. He
> pulled off the road near the campus of an insane
> asylum. There were several patients walking the
> grounds and they came over to the tall fence to
> watch the driver change his front passenger tire.
> As he removed the 5 lug nuts he placed each into
> his hubcap. When all the lug nuts where off he
> lifted the tire off the hub and accidently bumped
> the hub cap spilling all the lug nuts out and they
> rolled into the storm drain. Now he had none for
> that wheel.
>
> Totally perplexed. The driver exclaimed, "now what
> do I do?" One of the amused onlooking patients
> muttered, "remove one lug nut from the other
> wheels and use them to mount your spare."
> Terrific the driver shouted, but how did you know
> to do that after all you're in an insane asylum?
> The patient muttered back, "Yeah, I may be insane,
> but I'm not STUPID."
>
> With Ireland, he's not insane nor an idiot, but he
> makes poor (or stupid) personnel decisions. That
> applies to Philbin's coaching decisions as well.

SO then the summation should have been Ireland and Philbin belong in an insane asylum??? LOL Sorry, I have to laugh to keep from crying...

No KB, you missed the point! Ireland and Philbin WERE THE GUY WHO WAS FIXING THE TIRE!!! LOL. LOL. LOL.

LOL !
I was going to ask, "Sooo.. which side of the fence is Ireland?"

He's the driver.