Having this Sunday off allows for some bumps and bruises, physical soreness and pain to subside, maybe even heal, but what else will that extra time do? Will it provide the O-line the opportunity to improve their individual and collective play?

I don't believe any changes will be made, no experimentation by re-arranging players by position. WYSIWYG! Everyone, IMO will be back as before.

Tyler Clabo was pretty good at one time. His play so far is reminiscent of our RT from last year who we called a "turnstile." Clabo was supposed to be an upgrade, but as far as I can tell, and I'm not keeping stats, is that Clabo is just as porous. Why isn't he performing?

John Jerry has no motor. He looks winded and very cumbersome most of the time. Tougher defensive men are faster and apparently stronger. I don't have a clue how Jerry can overcome these bad traits. He's not worthy of starting and keeping his job, IMO. We are in trouble at RG.

Martin is perhaps doing the best of the three liabilities. He does provide a modicum of protection for Tannehill. He may be the only one capable of improving a little during the bye--just my opinion.

Incognito and Pouncey are far better than the other three, and Pouncey is first class at his position. So, only 2 of 5 O-line players are earning their pay, in my assessment.

Nate Garner should start in place of Jerry, if he is healthy. That's my only solution. Any other assessments? Any other bright ideas for the sake of fan support concerning these positions?

This just can't be fixed in one week. I agree with all your assessments. Clabo needs to retire. Jerry may fit in the old Parcels-type BIG O-Line setup, but he's out of place in Philbin's system. He needs to go. If Garner can take his place, then he should.

I still think Martin can improve, but I think the entire O-Line is under a lot of strain right now. He's not Pro-Bowl material, but I think he can be an effective LT in this league.

One of you offensive line gurus explain to me what we were doing right in the first half of the N.O. game...No sacks and running almost at will. Why haven't we done it since. Just seems to me that individual talent can't be the BIGGEST problem if we can play well at times. Is it the schemes, lack of adjustments, no heart, bad luck, what?

I'd be on the phone to Lance Louis to see if he's healthy yet, I'd be working the phones checking to see if any tradewinds are blowing, I'd be checking the FA's list to see if there's any blocking TE's and/or RB's that can block available (Michael Turner?). And if all else failed, I'd slide Jerry over to RT, and insert Watkins or Garner at RG just for the sake of shaking things up......oh, and on top of all that, I'd tell Sherman to shorten up the passing game (more screens, shorter routes, designed rollouts, etc.) or he's fired, and I'd tell RT17 he has to get rid of the ball in 2 to 4 seconds or he's benched. Trotting out the same scheme with the same 5 blocks of goo the rest of the season will be career suicide for Ireland/Philbin IMO.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This just can't be fixed in one week. I agree
> with all your assessments. Clabo needs to retire.
> Jerry may fit in the old Parcels-type BIG O-Line
> setup, but he's out of place in Philbin's system.
> He needs to go. If Garner can take his place,
> then he should.
>
> I still think Martin can improve, but I think the
> entire O-Line is under a lot of strain right now.
> He's not Pro-Bowl material, but I think he can be
> an effective LT in this league.

I don't think this can be fixed.

Martin just doesn't anchor well. His center of gravity is to high. It makes him susceptible to getting bull rushed. Maybe he can fix it. I'm not optimistic.

Incognito is solid.

Pouncey is a very good center. He's a better LG. He's the only Oline man we have who is athletic enough to pull, get to the 2bd level and make blocks in space.

Jerry is a decent pass blocker. I'd move him to RT.

At this point I think I'd like to see them play Thomas or Watkins at OG and find out if either of them is a player. Can't be worse than what we have now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2013 08:13AM by THE Truth.

OK then. I've been a Huge supporter of this Team and its current coaching staff. But if something isn't done during this Bye besides band aids and Gatorade I will crash the Band wagon into Irelands head.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

I too have noticed that Martin appears to tall in his pass blocking. Bend those knees son!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK then. I've been a Huge supporter of this Team
> and its current coaching staff. But if something
> isn't done during this Bye besides band aids and
> Gatorade I will crash the Band wagon into Irelands
> head.

*****************************************************

Well, Treasure, get ready to crash the Band Wagon. Unless Philbin is blowing smoke, he doesn't plan to change anything on the OLine; he is going with what he has and try to get the guys to improve on their play.

If that is the case, I have to ask....are our backups, i.e., Watkins, Garner, Thomas...that bad that Philbin won't even consider putting them in?

I don't know Cap and Treasure, the fact that he repeated IN THE RAVENS game, the infamous 3rd and 1 and pitch the ball back OF THE SAINTS game, THE FIRST TIME THE IDENTICAL SITUATION PRESENTED ITSELF, makes me think not only is he a bit inflexible but if you criticize him for doing A, he'll just give you MORE OF IT to show that he's in charge.

Translated that means if folks are criticizing his offense linemen, THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS A REASON that HE ABSOLUTELY WILL MAKE NO substitutions.

Some people just come from the school that teaches if you complain about them, the worst thing they could do is to consider your suggestion.

Both in the military and on the police force (maybe to a lesser extent Treasure), you must have run across leaders like that. I certainly did in the legal profession.

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of you offensive line gurus explain to me what
> we were doing right in the first half of the N.O.
> game...No sacks and running almost at will. Why
> haven't we done it since. Just seems to me that
> individual talent can't be the BIGGEST problem if
> we can play well at times. Is it the schemes,
> lack of adjustments, no heart, bad luck, what?


I believe that it's the offensive system, scheme, or whatever you want to call it that is the biggest problem. Some of their o-linemen played under Sparano, and as I recall didn't do too bad of a job overall; it was nothing like this! Enter Philbin and Sherman with their new offense. They only keep the linemen that they think will fit their scheme. In the draft, they decide that Martin is what they want for a LT. Well guess what? They were wrong about Martin. He might be getting better, but he still gets pushed around because he's weak... and that's not good. I'm sure that Ireland didn't draft Martin without input from Philbin and Sherman. If Martin is the type of player that they want for their new scheme, then expect hundreds of sacks when they put together a full o-line! They'll need to keep 8 QBs on the roster.

So, if their players don't fit their scheme and it's impossible to replace most of the line right now, then what would a good coach do? He'd change his scheme to fit the strengths of his players, not only to try and win games, but to protect their investment in Tannehill. That's what a good coaching staff would do, but apparently Miami doesn't have a good coaching staff. The line has given up 24 sacks in 5 games, yet not one change has been made on the o-line? Pathetic. How about the numerous 3rd and 1 questionable playcalls that kill drives?

Sorry, but IMO Philbin and Sherman are not doing a very good job with their offense. Miami is 3-2 due to the play of the guys on the field, in spite of the terrible playcalling, gameplanning, and poor use of personnel by the coaching staff. People say that the game has evolved away from the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" offense, and that's true. But, put one of those big, strong o-lines in front of Tannehill and a decent RB, and I'll bet that they improve the running game, and Tannehill will have plenty of time to go through his progressions while Wallace gets open deep.

If I were the owner, Sherman would already be fired and Philbin would be put on notice that he needs a new offense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2013 11:48AM by gofins60.

gofins60 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One of you offensive line gurus explain to me
> what
> > we were doing right in the first half of the
> N.O.
> > game...No sacks and running almost at will.
> Why
> > haven't we done it since. Just seems to me
> that
> > individual talent can't be the BIGGEST problem
> if
> > we can play well at times. Is it the schemes,
> > lack of adjustments, no heart, bad luck, what?
>
>
> I believe that it's the offensive system, scheme,
> or whatever you want to call it that is the
> biggest problem. Some of their o-linemen played
> under Sparano, and as I recall didn't do too bad
> of a job overall; it was nothing like this! Enter
> Philbin and Sherman with their new offense. They
> only keep the linemen that they think will fit
> their scheme. In the draft, they decide that
> Martin is what they want for a LT. Well guess
> what? They were wrong about Martin. He might be
> getting better, but he still gets pushed around
> because he's weak... and that's not good. I'm sure
> that Ireland didn't draft Martin without input
> from Philbin and Sherman. If Martin is the type of
> player that they want for their new scheme, then
> expect hundreds of sacks when they put together a
> full o-line! They'll need to keep 8 QBs on the
> roster.
>
> So, if their players don't fit their scheme and
> it's impossible to replace most of the line right
> now, then what would a good coach do? He'd change
> his scheme to fit the strengths of his players,
> not only to try and win games, but to protect
> their investment in Tannehill. That's what a good
> coaching staff would do, but apparently Miami
> doesn't have a good coaching staff. The line has
> given up 24 sacks in 5 games, yet not one change
> has been made on the o-line? Pathetic. How about
> the numerous 3rd and 1 questionable playcalls that
> kill drives?
>
> Sorry, but IMO Philbin and Sherman are not doing a
> very good job with their offense. Miami is 3-2 due
> to the play of the guys on the field, in spite of
> the terrible playcalling, gameplanning, and poor
> use of personnel by the coaching staff. People say
> that the game has evolved away from the "3 yards
> and a cloud of dust" offense, and that's true.
> But, put one of those big, strong o-lines in front
> of Tannehill and a decent RB, and I'll bet that
> they improve the running game, and Tannehill will
> have plenty of time to go through his progressions
> while Wallace gets open deep.
>
> If I were the owner, Sherman would already be
> fired and Philbin would be put on notice that he
> needs a new offense.


So in other words, it's a 'system' guy being a 'system' guy...I'll agree with that...

I still think its a combination of play calling (zone runs) and the center getting the opponents defensive schemes called out. Too many times the entire offensive line looks like 'what the hell just happened' after a lousy play. So at this moment I am doing a lot of finger pointing at Pouncey. Right now I think both he and Incog are getting by on reputations. I read one writer put out both Jerry and Incogs statistics according to FF both had 2 sacks allowed, both had allowed 3 hits and Incog had 0 hurries and Jerry 5. The writer described Incogs performance as pro bowl, that's BS. Incogs not getting any push on his man on run plays. If Jerry needed to go they should have cut him before the season started. IMO the entire line will go down the toilet if he is pulled out. You saw that in preseason. IMO he is the strongest man up front.

What the coaches need to do is pull 20-25 power plays from other offenses and incorporate them into the phins. Get a true fullback. Go into the I formation. On short yardage plays put Jerry at tackle, garner at G and Yeatman at TE and go man to man w/ our power vs the opponents D's.

I don't have all the answers, but I'm also not getting paid $1 million + $$$. Giving them a week off and hoping they bounce back isn't going to cut it. Hopefully they are doing something . Nothing I can do about it. But it would be a shame to blow such a great start to the season.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have all the answers, but I'm also not
> getting paid $1 million + $$$. Giving them a week
> off and hoping they bounce back isn't going to cut
> it. Hopefully they are doing something . Nothing
> I can do about it. But it would be a shame to blow
> such a great start to the season.


The season is over. They will tank the season. You'll see.

Do you seriously or anybody else see this team with out an Oline winning a single game in the playoffs?

and god thank you for not making us play against the broncos....thank you thank you thank you thank you.

All I want to see from the phins this year is that they are on the upswing. Any fan that thought this team was on the way to a Super Bowl win is an idiot. I mean a wild card spot would be gravy. I believe the team is on the upswing. 10 wins for me would be great. A 2-3 game improvement from last year would satisfy me.

I see improvement everywhere EXCEPT the oline and that is scary. Its scary because there are only signs that the position will only get worse.I actually find the bench players frightening.

New Orleans and Chicago picked tackes that I liked and the Colts are starting a rookie G. None of these players were picked in the first round. What's wrong w/ the Phins!

I personally do NOT see an improvement of coaching, game management, game planning, real-time adjustments, innovative tactics and strategy…

You win in the N F L with:

Coitusback - erect and fully functional

Coaching - developing talent and creating "winning" matchups

The "horses" to accomplish the above.

Martin supposedly gained muscle in the OS. He needs to give it another shot this off-season b/c he is weak. Sad part is he is still better than the Atlanta retread.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't have all the answers, but I'm also not
> > getting paid $1 million + $$$. Giving them a
> week
> > off and hoping they bounce back isn't going to
> cut
> > it. Hopefully they are doing something .
> Nothing
> > I can do about it. But it would be a shame to
> blow
> > such a great start to the season.
>
>
> The season is over. They will tank the season.
> You'll see.
>
> Do you seriously or anybody else see this team
> with out an Oline winning a single game in the
> playoffs?
>
> and god thank you for not making us play against
> the broncos....thank you thank you thank you thank
> you.

************************************

Geez, Sam, lighten up.

Miami's season is DEFINITELY not up! Long ways to go. Our division isn't that strong. A 9-7 record will probably win the division.

I agree 100% that our OLine needs to get fixed ASAP, but if true what Philbin said in that he is OK with what he has, then a new offensive scheme has to be put into place to make up for the OLine's deficiencies. I suggested it before: 3-step drops and get the ball out of there. That will definitely slow the pass rush, plus give the running game a little room. I am confident our guys can hold a block for a second. That will give RT enough room to drop back and let it fly. Then....it is up to our receivers to hold on to the damn ball; far too many drops this year. Keep Wallace going down field or over the middle, giving him space to fly once he has his hands on the ball.

They also have to strengthen the cover guys. I highly doubt Patterson gets back on the field for awhile, so Carroll has to step up his play. However, I did read where Patterson may not get his job back (from Carroll) and will probably be the nickel guy.

Now, saying all that, we must all realize what is on the field is all we have. The OLine, as it is, can only slightly improve. New blood is needed, but it doesn't look as tho that is what Philbin wishes to do.

The DBs, right now, are hard to judge. Our two rookies haven't played that much, and when they have, they've been burned; the opposing QBs look for them. Will Patterson, when and if he returns, make a difference? I don't know.

But Sam, hang in there, good things will be happening for Miami this year. They have shown all around improvement from last year. Don't go giving me numbers and stats; I know what they say, but I am just saying Miami has a lot of good things going right now. Fix a couple of areas and Miami will be much improved.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All I want to see from the phins this year is that
> they are on the upswing. Any fan that thought this
> team was on the way to a Super Bowl win is an
> idiot. I mean a wild card spot would be gravy. I
> believe the team is on the upswing. 10 wins for me
> would be great. A 2-3 game improvement from last
> year would satisfy me.
>
> I see improvement everywhere EXCEPT the oline and
> that is scary. Its scary because there are only
> signs that the position will only get worse.I
> actually find the bench players frightening.
>
> New Orleans and Chicago picked tackes that I
> liked and the Colts are starting a rookie G. None
> of these players were picked in the first round.
> What's wrong w/ the Phins!

****************************************

How can the bench be frightening? They haven't been on the field (unless that's what frightens you).

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Martin supposedly gained muscle in the OS. He
> needs to give it another shot this off-season b/c
> he is weak. Sad part is he is still better than
> the Atlanta retread.


His pass blocking issue isn't really just about functional strength. Its about his center of gravity. He doesn't anchor well. He has to drop his hips better and get under the power rusher. When he's too upright he gets knocked off balance and is toast.

Copkoi i know you sense my frustration. I know everyone here does.


And on top of all its the bye week. Boring bye week and its hell waiting for next week.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mizzou15 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > All I want to see from the phins this year is
> that
> > they are on the upswing. Any fan that thought
> this
> > team was on the way to a Super Bowl win is an
> > idiot. I mean a wild card spot would be gravy.
> I
> > believe the team is on the upswing. 10 wins for
> me
> > would be great. A 2-3 game improvement from
> last
> > year would satisfy me.
> >
> > I see improvement everywhere EXCEPT the oline
> and
> > that is scary. Its scary because there are only
> > signs that the position will only get worse.I
> > actually find the bench players frightening.
> >
> > New Orleans and Chicago picked tackes that I
> > liked and the Colts are starting a rookie G.
> None
> > of these players were picked in the first
> round.
> > What's wrong w/ the Phins!
>
> ****************************************
>
> How can the bench be frightening? They haven't
> been on the field (unless that's what frightens
> you).

Did you watch any of the preseason games? If these guys were better than the starters they would be starting.