With binns out of the picture...now you see why keeping Bess would have been key!

Not to worry...there are at least 4 free agent receivers out there that can be signed.
In order I would choose one of these three. At this point they can be signed for a fairly cheap price.

1) Brandon Lloyd
2) Steve Breaston
2) Austin collie
3) Laurent Robinson


This all could have been avoided if Bess was not traded to Cleveland. As I preached before...keeping Bess as "insurance" could do nothing but good...it was a win win situation.

Ireland Blew it as usual...

we are not signing an old washed up vet to replace armon binns. I think McNutt is a solid player and Matthews assuming he's healthy. The sky is not falling. It's Armon Binns, guys, not Randy Moss.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I like Austin Collie if he can stay concussion free.

Paying Bess # 2 WR money to play #4 WR....thank god you aren't making the calls!

As far as signing anyone, I'd wait to see how the young guys we have pan out.

Austin Collie on a 1 year deal for the league minimum would be nice.

How much do you think Lloyd would command? He doesn't have a job so I would expect him to play for anything.

doesn't austin collie have an eggshell skull? we're not signing any players with more concussions than TDs in the league

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we are not signing an old washed up vet to replace
> armon binns. I think McNutt is a solid player and
> Matthews assuming he's healthy. The sky is not
> falling. It's Armon Binns, guys, not Randy Moss.


I'd be willing to roll the dice on Laurent Robinson for a 1 year deal.

I think we are keeping 6 WR anyway. having 4 proven guys would be great.

Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, Robinson, Matthews, McNutt.

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With binns out of the picture...now you see why
> keeping Bess would have been key!
>
> Not to worry...there are at least 4 free agent
> receivers out there that can be signed.
> In order I would choose one of these three. At
> this point they can be signed for a fairly cheap
> price.
>
> 1) Brandon Lloyd
> 2) Steve Breaston
> 2) Austin collie
> 3) Laurent Robinson
>
>
> This all could have been avoided if Bess was not
> traded to Cleveland. As I preached
> before...keeping Bess as "insurance" could do
> nothing but good...it was a win win situation.
>
> Ireland Blew it as usual...


If Bess were here he'd have been making $3m as our 5th or 6th WR hoping that someone gets hurt before Matthews and McNutt pass him on the depth chart.

It was the absolute RIGHT thing to do to trade him.

He was over paid since he didn't fit our new offense and he was a progress stopper for guys like Matthews, Fuller and now McNutt.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > we are not signing an old washed up vet to
> replace
> > armon binns. I think McNutt is a solid player
> and
> > Matthews assuming he's healthy. The sky is not
> > falling. It's Armon Binns, guys, not Randy
> Moss.
>
>
> I'd be willing to roll the dice on Laurent
> Robinson for a 1 year deal.
>
> I think we are keeping 6 WR anyway. having 4
> proven guys would be great.
>
> Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, Robinson, Matthews,
> McNutt.


of those guys on the list robinson is the only one I'd go for. I do like McNutt, I really wanted us to take him coming out of Iowa and I think he can be a player for us

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > berkeley223 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > we are not signing an old washed up vet to
> > replace
> > > armon binns. I think McNutt is a solid player
> > and
> > > Matthews assuming he's healthy. The sky is
> not
> > > falling. It's Armon Binns, guys, not Randy
> > Moss.
> >
> >
> > I'd be willing to roll the dice on Laurent
> > Robinson for a 1 year deal.
> >
> > I think we are keeping 6 WR anyway. having 4
> > proven guys would be great.
> >
> > Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, Robinson, Matthews,
> > McNutt.
>
>
> of those guys on the list robinson is the only one
> I'd go for. I do like McNutt, I really wanted us
> to take him coming out of Iowa and I think he can
> be a player for us


I agree with you Berk.

I liked him coming out of college also. Was surprised we didnt take him.

Cut down day(s) are also coming.

The truth, toko and camaron,

Sorry, I respectfully disagree with all 3 of you.

3 mill is not 2nd receiver money... It is 3rd receiver money..

AND we certainly could use the depth...never too many good receivers..

Toko...
Your stats say it all...I am looking at the number of receptions Bess had... He certainly did not drop many passes... Most of the incompleted targets were errant passes.

In any case.. If we could pick up lloyd, Robinson or collie for cheap...it would be great for depth!

For perspective, last year at this time Legeduu Nanee looked like he was going to be a great pick up and good WR in the 3 spot... We all know how that worked out... We have to keep in perspective, that we are less then ten days into camp... It is hard to say what Binns would have been come season if he stayed healthy... But now since he got hurt before we ever saw him in a real game for us, he will be this mythical loss....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For perspective, last year at this time Legeduu
> Nanee looked like he was going to be a great pick
> up and good WR in the 3 spot... We all know how
> that worked out... We have to keep in perspective,
> that we are less then ten days into camp... It is
> hard to say what Binns would have been come season
> if he stayed healthy... But now since he got hurt
> before we ever saw him in a real game for us, he
> will be this mythical loss....


Except that we got to see binns for 3 games last year and despite not knowing the playbook at all, he was twice the player Naanee was in that short span of time.

Plus he was only 23 and he's in that period of his career where WR's usually make huge strides.

There was every reason to expect him to be a significant contributor as the 4th WR this year.

its not the end of the world he's out this year, its just a blow to our depth.

Why did you disagree then Stevie? I guess it could be a chicken and the egg type argument did his catches go down because throws were off target, or was he not quick enough to catch those off target throws?


But here is more...if you remember, Bess was not a starter until last year, and still his targets went down. Me thinks the targets went down because he had a hard time getting open, especially since Mr. B.Marshall was no longer around to draw off some coverage.

If it was the team I was building, I would think Bess could be an adequate-below average #3 slot WR, but we need to be better than average! It is 2013, and the time to challenge the Patsies has finally arrived.

a number 4 receiver is not really meant to replace your slot guy, they are the prospect/project guys that can step in for your starter. Bess is not that.

Toko,

Actually,bess's targets went up in 2012. He had 104.
Bottom line is Bess was our second best receiver last year.... There is no reason to think he would be worse than Gibson...frankly that is a toss up.
Bess is a blue collar hard working receiver... Dependable ...he gets the job done...frankly a fantastic football player.
AND....he is DURABLE!missing only 3 games in 5 seasons!

Any way you look at it...now that binns is hurt,,,not having Bess is a blow to us.
I hope we sign Lloyd ...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2013 04:46PM by steviec13.

his targets went up, but so did his downs played...so percentage wise, the targets sunk. He is a classy guy, but just not the football player he was when he first joined the team. This is what the good teams do. They recognize when their player's skills start to diminish and they move on. You gotta let Bess go! Let him go, he is gone.

I've let him go....just saying we need someone to replace him with a gritty scrappy receiver.
Hoping they sign one of them...

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Toko,
>
> Actually,bess's targets went up in 2012. He had
> 104.
> Bottom line is Bess was our second best receiver
> last year.... There is no reason to think he would
> be worse than Gibson...frankly that is a toss up.

Only if someone hasn't been listening to what Joe Philbin has been saying about our offense, Bess and Gibson over the last 18 months.

If all things are equal, then yes, its a toss up.

But in this offense, all things aren't equal. Bess can't run the route tree on all three WR positions like Gibson can.

His opportunities were going to be extremely limited in this offense by his skill set.

I dont know about how limited he would be, Bess still had 778 yards on 60 receptions in just 13 games. He avg 60 yards a game... That is not as limited as is being portrayed IMO.... Philbin didnt like him, and felt someone else could do better, I am not sure the slot WR this year will out perform what the "limited" Bess did on the roster last year.... But we shall see..... Bess helped move the chains a lot last year... And no WR's caught anything more then solo TD's last year... I dont put that on Bess for only having one... Sure if Hartline had 8 last year that argument would hold weight, but since nobody had more then 1... Bess was tied for the most TD's by a WR last year.. Which IMO was more on Tannehill then anyone.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont know about how limited he would be, Bess
> still had 778 yards on 60 receptions in just 13
> games. He avg 60 yards a game... That is not as
> limited as is being portrayed IMO.... Philbin
> didnt like him, and felt someone else could do
> better, I am not sure the slot WR this year will
> out perform what the "limited" Bess did on the
> roster last year.... But we shall see..... Bess
> helped move the chains a lot last year... And no
> WR's caught anything more then solo TD's last
> year... I dont put that on Bess for only having
> one... Sure if Hartline had 8 last year that
> argument would hold weight, but since nobody had
> more then 1... Bess was tied for the most TD's by
> a WR last year.. Which IMO was more on Tannehill
> then anyone.

Bess was our #2 WR last year by default. His numbers were inflated by that fact.

Our offense was limited by his presence last year due to his inability to run the routes required of an outside WR in our system.

There's a reason he's not still here Crowder and its because he can't do all the things Philbin wants ALL his WR's to do. With 4 guys a head of him on the depth chart in Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, and Binns...as well as a few guys on the rise like Matthews and McNutt, Bess was CLEARLY not going to get the opportunities this year that he got last year as our defacto #2.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > For perspective, last year at this time Legeduu
> > Nanee looked like he was going to be a great
> pick
> > up and good WR in the 3 spot... We all know how
> > that worked out... We have to keep in
> perspective,
> > that we are less then ten days into camp... It
> is
> > hard to say what Binns would have been come
> season
> > if he stayed healthy... But now since he got
> hurt
> > before we ever saw him in a real game for us,
> he
> > will be this mythical loss....
>
>
> Except that we got to see binns for 3 games last
> year and despite not knowing the playbook at all,
> he was twice the player Naanee was in that short
> span of time.
>
> Plus he was only 23 and he's in that period of his
> career where WR's usually make huge strides.
>
> There was every reason to expect him to be a
> significant contributor as the 4th WR this year.
>
> its not the end of the world he's out this year,
> its just a blow to our depth.


Binn's 6 receptions in 2 games that didnt matter for a total of 67 yards, one of them a blow out loss, where the Patriots in prevent and dont get anyone hurt for the playoffs mode, doesnt exactly give me any more confidence then Legudu gave me last training camp... I do agree the 23 year age is a positive, that Nanee didnt have.. And perhaps if Binns is what you guys think he can be and at his age, we can keep him for next year on the cheap... But right now, he is in the mythical status of what could have been, if a guy fighting for a roster spot, can have a mythical status...lol... maybe I just like the word or the idea behind the word itself, mythical....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

7-11 was mythical I suppose, there were some around here who were calling for us to sign him back up and start him, all season.... Hard Knocks did a good job adding to that myth... The guy who was always open because no one took him serious enough to worry about covering him in practice syndrome...hahahaha

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder, this is a typical argument by you know who.

You say, "Hey, they may have made a mistake in letting Devon go so quickly." He says, "No."

His logic goes like this "They did what they did because they thought what they thought was best."

Of course, no one is saying that the leadership is insane. Of course they thought it was for the best but your argument is that maybe they are wrong in thinking it was for the best.

But again, the Shipwreck says "They did what they did because they thought what they thought was best."

It's circular reasoning like "let's not put anybody to death unless we have 1000% certainty of his guilt, of course, at the same time, I'm not demanding perfection."

I loved Bess. Great character and he caught a bunch of short passes. How many Touchdowns did he have? He was completely ineffective in the red zone. Sorry.....we know have a coach who wants to improve.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I loved Bess. Great character and he caught a
> bunch of short passes. How many Touchdowns did he
> have? He was completely ineffective in the red
> zone. Sorry.....we know have a coach who wants to
> improve.

Treasure, just out of curiosity, how many more TD's do you think Hartline had then Bess. Actually Bess scored in the redzone, Hartline never scored in the redzone last year... The argument about Bess and TD's doesnt hold any weight, because Tannehill was our biggest problem in the red zone last year, not Bess.... If the coach wanted to improve why did we sign Hartline to a big contract when he was even less productive then Bess in the redzone?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Treasure, I'm not saying that in the future it will have been proven to be a bad decision. All indications are that in the future it may be proven to have been the right decision. However, at the time it was done, it seemed a risky decision at the time because at a casual glance, Bess was a more effective receiver than our "at that time" no. 1 receiver Brian Hartline.

Now we have Wallace, Gibson. But at the time, it seemed like an unnecessarily unwise move that was dependent entirely on being able to replace him in the future. And frankly, I thought in the draft we would choose Keenan Allen or Corrallelle Patterson and maybe that's why they would do it. But that was not the case.