agreed, but of course they are just trying to get "attention" with these rankings. mission accomplished, I guess.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I would give Walsh the point over Shula he beat him heads up in the Super bowl. I would probably put Paul Bown ahead of him too.

2-4 in the Super Bowl hurts his case.

But I don't see how: Most Wins, Most Super Bowls, Two Teams to the Super Bowl, and the only perfect season doesn't get you the top spot.

As far as ESPN is concerned, Walsh won more superbowls...its that simple. Lombardi likewise won more championships...

Now on to unbiased reality, Shula is the single greatest coach ever because of his body of work. No one did more, as consistently, even when he had far less to work with. That's why he's the greatest.

ESPN has always had a negative bias against Miami. Truth said it best. If that body of work doesn't get you GOAT I don't know what does.

Shula also only had two losing seasons in his career, and for the length of his career....who else can make a claim like that?

But, just like Marino, people are looking at the rings.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shula also only had two losing seasons in his
> career, and for the length of his career....who
> else can make a claim like that?
>
>

To me, that's quality.

Only two losing seasons, two rings, one perfect season.

Shula was the best--ESPN can stow it.

I'm sure Lombardi will be the #1 guy, and he was a great coach, but he didn't have that much longevity. One can only guess as to what he could have accomplished if he had not passed away, but Shula did show what he could accomplish with longevity.

This is a subject that will always be much debated, just like who was the greatest (position) in NFL history.

Silly to even try to argue; too many variables.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as ESPN is concerned, Walsh won more
> superbowls...its that simple. Lombardi likewise
> won more championships...
>
> Now on to unbiased reality, Shula is the single
> greatest coach ever because of his body of work.
> No one did more, as consistently, even when he had
> far less to work with. That's why he's the
> greatest.


Precisely.

I believe it was Lombardi and Knoll who were ranked higher then Shula... It appears they weighed Championships as the greatest achievements in voting for the top guy. Both Knoll and Lombardi have a lot more championships then Shula.. Knoll got 4 rings in 6 years or so... Pretty dominant... Lombardi won 2 Super bowls and 4 NFL Championships before the Superbowl was a game... Hard to argue with that... Shula is a legend, but so are Lombardi and Knoll... Shula's failure to get a Super bowl during the Marino era knocks him down a few notches below the other 2... The perfect season and winningest coach in the NFL history could have been valued higher then it was, but it appears it wasn't..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2013 11:37AM by Crowder52.

As for defense Shula never recovered from losing Arns and at times he should have left draft decisons wholly to the front office. Let them scout and pick him and he did what he did best coach.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for defense Shula never recovered from losing
> Arns and at times he should have left draft
> decisons wholly to the front office. Let them
> scout and pick him and he did what he did best
> coach.


I agree. As the NFL changed he didn't. He was a dinosaur by the time J.J. took over in 95' and Marino's best yrs were behind him. The Problem with the Dolphins back then is they blindly followed Shula for 25 yrs. He could do no wrong. But from the early 80's on the NFL had changed. It became more then just X's and O's. He didn't realize he needed to surround himself with people who could help him continue to be successful. J.J. knew the new NFL better then anyone, but his heart wasn't in it after his parents past away and he realized how much he was missing in his personal life to win. Miami has had just unfortunate circumstance after unfortunate circumstance. Hopefully that's finally behind us now. Luck does play a large part in it all as well. And I DO NOT mean Andrew Luck.........

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Arns leaving, Larry Gordon, and Rusty Chambers dying. Mcneal, Rhone and Duhe getting injured. I remember we got a hot young LB (Bowser) from Duke who was a beast. Poor kid lost his wife in an automobile accident and jjust walked away after 2 years or so. Our D took a lot of hits

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arns leaving, Larry Gordon, and Rusty Chambers
> dying. Mcneal, Rhone and Duhe getting injured. I
> remember we got a hot young LB (Bowser) from Duke
> who was a beast. Poor kid lost his wife in an
> automobile accident and jjust walked away after 2
> years or so. Our D took a lot of hits


Also, the injury to Andre Franklin in Dan's rookie year didn't help our running game. We never found another RB as good as Franklin for Dan to hand off to.

We also had a bunch of really bad high-round draft picks in the mid- to late- 80's that killed us, especially on defence. Eric Kumerow, Rick Graf, John Bosa. Ugh. It started to get better when we drafted Jarvis Williams, then Louis Oliver the following year.

Anemone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We also had a bunch of really bad high-round draft
> picks in the mid- to late- 80's that killed us,
> especially on defence. Eric Kumerow, Rick Graf,
> John Bosa. Ugh. It started to get better when we
> drafted Jarvis Williams, then Louis Oliver the
> following year.

Jackie Shipp...

Anemone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
It started to get better when we
> drafted Jarvis Williams, then Louis Oliver the
> following year.

Yeah man, now we are talking the 2 gators in the secondary were solid... every time Oliver made a tackle, we got the low deep, Lou chants from the crowd... I remember as a kid the first time I heard the crowd Chant Lou, asking my dad why the crowd was booing him...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anemone1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> It started to get better when we
> > drafted Jarvis Williams, then Louis Oliver the
> > following year.
>
> Yeah man, now we are talking the 2 gators in the
> secondary were solid... every time Oliver made a
> tackle, we got the low deep, Lou chants from the
> crowd... I remember as a kid the first time I
> heard the crowd Chant Lou, asking my dad why the
> crowd was booing him...

See, this goes to show how old I am....when I was a kid, I asked MY dad why everyone was "booing" Norm Bulaich (pronounced BOO-lahsh) whenever he did something good!

You are completely wrong. In Shula's early years in Baltimore, he tailored his offense around the passing attack of Johnny Unitas and Raymond Berry, using the running of Lenny Moore and company as a change of pace, then he tailored his offense here in Miami around the running attack of Csonka, Kiick and Morris and using the passing combo of Griese and Warfield as his change of pace, then going back to the high powered passing attack of Marino, Duper, and Clayton. This is tailoring your offense to the talent you have, something most coaches couldn't do then and still can't do today. Lombardi did it, Shula did it. Nobody else could.

Rick

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > Yeah man, now we are talking the 2 gators in
> the
> > secondary were solid... every time Oliver made
> a
> > tackle, we got the low deep, Lou chants from
> the
> > crowd... I remember as a kid the first time I
> > heard the crowd Chant Lou, asking my dad why
> the
> > crowd was booing him...
>
> See, this goes to show how old I am....when I was
> a kid, I asked MY dad why everyone was "booing"
> Norm Bulaich (pronounced BOO-lahsh) whenever he
> did something good!

lol, that is good stuff! they used to do the same thing with Duper as well.....Duuuuuuuuupe!!!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2013 03:45PM by Crowder52.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Jackie Shipp...


Yeah, forgot about him. And for good reason. It was amazing how bad our draft picks were from about '85 - '90. And then there was our supposed saviour at running back, Sammie "hands of stone" Smith... (and nose of coke for that matter).

Anemone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Jackie Shipp...
>
>
> Yeah, forgot about him. And for good reason. It
> was amazing how bad our draft picks were from
> about '85 - '90. And then there was our supposed
> saviour at running back, Sammie "hands of stone"
> Smith... (and nose of coke for that matter).


NIL/HEAD .

These were Marino's best years and they were wasted. I almost cry when I think about what could have been.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

I have too disagree somewhat with the assessment that Shula should have been higher on the list. I don't want to sound sacrilegious however I tend to agree with where he is. You have arguably one of the greatest QB's of all time on you roster from 1983 to 1999 and you don't build a complete team around him so that you can win multiple championships. Some of that falls on the front office, and the rest on the head coach. For many of those same years this team would have been sorry with out number 13 under center. I respect coach Shula however not winning a championship with Marino is the biggest reason he is NOT the best coach ever. If Lombardi had Marino how many championships would they have won together? Shula never got Marino a top flight defense or a consistent running game to help this team WIN a championship. So for me that was a big disappointment.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have too disagree somewhat with the assessment
> that Shula should have been higher on the list. I
> don't want to sound sacrilegious however I tend to
> agree with where he is. You have arguably one of
> the greatest QB's of all time on you roster from
> 1983 to 1999 and you don't build a complete team
> around him so that you can win multiple
> championships. Some of that falls on the front
> office, and the rest on the head coach. For many
> of those same years this team would have been
> sorry with out number 13 under center. I respect
> coach Shula however not winning a championship
> with Marino is the biggest reason he is NOT the
> best coach ever. If Lombardi had Marino how many
> championships would they have won together? Shula
> never got Marino a top flight defense or a
> consistent running game to help this team WIN a
> championship. So for me that was a big
> disappointment.

My main beef is putting Bill Walsh ahead of Shula. If it's really Chuck Noll that was #2, then I'm more ok with it.

Bill Walsh.

You see who his direct coaching staff was? besides his wins with the Niners he had the most prominent assistants then any other coach.

George Seifert, Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, Ray Rhodes, and Dennis Green to name just a few. Gruden and Reid came from Holmgreen. Sorry , His leadership qualities can not be denied.

Who did Shula bring up that went on to greatness? Olivadoti? I'm sorry. Shula did some great things. His winning record is unprecedented. But over all , he also had some major flaws .

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Think how bad we would have been from 83 to 99 if we had to draft Ken Obrien or Tony Eason back in 83.

It's all about the QB. Without a great QB a coach is nothing.

Belichick (without Brady) gets fired years ago just like he did in Cleveland.

Mike McCarthy (w/o Aaron Rodgers) is an offensive coordinator with some other team.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Think how bad we would have been from 83 to 99 if
> we had to draft Ken Obrien or Tony Eason back in
> 83.


LOL. We never got the chance because they were drafted AHEAD OF MARINO.... but I'm just having fun. I get your point.

Yeah I meant if the Jets or Pats had been smart enough to draft Marino.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers