Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason Denver defense gave up more points
> under Orton is because in 5 games Orton had 7
> interceptions...Inerceptions leads to scores...
> And just to be clear, Tebow had 6 interceptions in
> the remaining 11 games... The points given up by
> Denvers defense can be directly related to Orton's
> losing the turnover battle.. And the Defense
> giving up less points can be directly connected to
> the fact Tebow didn't throw interceptions...



poppycock.

even if you gave the opposition a TD on all seven of the INT's that Orton threw, and NONE of the Six that tebow threw, the Denver Defense gave up 18.2 ppg under orton and only 12ppg in the 7 wins Tebow had.

if you want to make it fair and say that all INT's thrown by all of them led to scores that are a result of the turnover and not on the defense, then Denvers D was giving up about 8.5 ppg in each of those 7 Tebow wins.


Btw...Orton had 8 TD passes in those 5 games, Tebow has 12 in 11 games.

That's the offense was putting up 21 ppg under him and only 18 under Tebow.





> I supposed it was everybody else fault that Orton
> didnt protect the ball and Tebow did... In 11
> games Tebow gave up less interceptions then Orton
> in 5... That is a pretty self explanatory stat. It
> is not like Denver just pulled Orton for no reason
> because the defense wasnt playing well....

Denver went to Tebow for one reason: they were 1-4 and McDaniel felt that was a good time to transition to his 1st round QB.

Tebow also had 6 rushing TD's to go along with 660 rushing yards in those 11 games. Orton had zero rushing TD's and 17 yards rushing in 5 games..
That stat is pretty important as well when analyzing Tebows vs Orton's performance.. But you are probbaly right Orton would have gotten his second wind and put up 750 rusning yards and 10 TD's had they kept him in..
WIth Tebow and the NFL read option, Denver had the number one running attack in the NFL under Tebow, not so much under Orton.. RUn the ball, eat up the clock, dont throw interceptions, hmmmmmmm.. All things that keep the other team off the field and with long fields.. A good way to win, and keep the opposing teams points down, fewer tries, leads to fewer scores..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I have often said this. The quarterback is really not the whole team.

You really can't look at won-lost statistics.

Dan Marino was the 6th QB taken in his draft.

But he went to a Super Bowl team, where he immediately tore up the league.

Supposed he had gone to a sucky team.

Would his talent have shone through? Probably.

Bob Griese was rated the SECOND best QB in his draft. (Remember Steve Spurrier).

He went to a sucky team that had just got a young coach who people were disappointed in Baltimore where he coached the Colts to a losing SuperBowl against Joe Willy Namath.

Sometimes a team can carry a QB, sometimes a QB can carry a team.

But I have always argued against the "Quarterback is the only player" people.

I don't think Tebow can either be praised or damned because of his won-lost record.

And I'll tell you another thing you'll probably disagree with.

EVEN A QUARTERBACK'S PASSING PERCENTAGE is not wholly his fault or something he can take credit for.

There are pass blockers, receivers, and even great running backs who draw attention away, let alone sucky defenses and great defenses he plays against.

The bottom line is the "quarterback IS NOT THE ONLY player on the team."

It is a team sport and any analysis that attempts to praise or damn Tim Tebow based solely on stats is inappropriate.


But you can't go too much in MY DIRECTION either.

For example, Geno Smith's dumb attitude that his agent is at fault for his draft number selection is a far graver problem.

How long do you think it will be before this clown starts blaming his teammates for every loss and calling them out publicly?

LOL. His linemen will meet in secret and agree to let him get killed back there in the backfield.

LOL. I can remember a time or two Dan Marino grabbing a facemask of a lineman that missed a block and him giving them an earful of shit about it.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tebow also had 6 rushing TD's to go along with 660
> rushing yards in those 11 games. Orton had zero
> rushing TD's and 17 yards rushing in 5 games..
> That stat is pretty important as well when
> analyzing Tebows vs Orton's performance..


The Math:

Tebow: 11 games, 123.5 ypg passing, 47.1yp rushing = 170.6 ypg TOTAL offense.

Also, 12 TD passes and 6 rushing TD's. 18 TD's, 11 games..or 1.636 TD's a game accounted for.


Orton: 195.8 ypg passing, 3.4 ypg rushing = 199.2 ypg total offense.

Orton...8 TD passes in 5 games, Zero rushing TD's over 5 games...or 1.6 TD's per game accounted for.

Under Tebow...Denver averaged 18ppg.

Under Orton...Denver averaged 21ppg.



Other than as a RB, how exactly was Tebow better than Orton?

Oh that's right, he motivated the defense to be 250% more efficient while he was playing.




> But you
> are probbaly right Orton would have gotten his
> second wind and put up 750 rusning yards and 10
> TD's had they kept him in..

{Yawn}...Straw man arguments already? You might just as well give up.



> WIth Tebow and the NFL read option, Denver had
> the number one running attack in the NFL under
> Tebow, not so much under Orton.. RUn the ball, eat
> up the clock, dont throw interceptions, hmmmmmmm..
> All things that keep the other team off the field
> and with long fields.. A good way to win, and keep
> the opposing teams points down, fewer tries, leads
> to fewer scores..

yes...good strategy. Until you run into a team a good passing game.

And you are right Tebow is a fine RB...not much of a QB though. Too bad for him this is the era of the QB in the NFL.
If only he'd have been draft 50 years ago.

18 TD's in 11 games total for Tebow with 6 interceptions and much better control of the clock.. a 7-4 record
8 TD's in 5 games total for Orton with 7 interceptions 1-4 record.... End of story...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Why are people here still discussing Tim Tebow?

Why not? Is friggin MAY. What would you like to talk about?

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Poor Tebow. He hasn't been the same since December 2011 when he found out Santa wasn't real. Rumor has it he has an amazing collection of porcelain reindeer.

Honestly. He seems like a nice kid. But he could snap.

But he will play better in Canada because its closer to the North Pole.

My opinion. Of course.

BNF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2013 08:37AM by BigNastyFish.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tebow also had 6 rushing TD's to go along with
> 660
> > rushing yards in those 11 games. Orton had
> zero
> > rushing TD's and 17 yards rushing in 5 games..
> > That stat is pretty important as well when
> > analyzing Tebows vs Orton's performance..
>
>
> The Math:
>
> Tebow: 11 games, 123.5 ypg passing, 47.1yp
> rushing = 170.6 ypg TOTAL offense.
>
> Also, 12 TD passes and 6 rushing TD's. 18 TD's,
> 11 games..or 1.636 TD's a game accounted for.
>
>
> Orton: 195.8 ypg passing, 3.4 ypg rushing = 199.2
> ypg total offense.
>
> Orton...8 TD passes in 5 games, Zero rushing TD's
> over 5 games...or 1.6 TD's per game accounted
> for.
>
> Under Tebow...Denver averaged 18ppg.
>
> Under Orton...Denver averaged 21ppg.
>
>
>
> Other than as a RB, how exactly was Tebow better
> than Orton?
>
> Oh that's right, he motivated the defense to be
> 250% more efficient while he was playing.
>
>
>


How can you not apply the same math to Tebow and Tannehill and reach the same conclusion? Tebow is a better QB.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How can you not apply the same math to Tebow and
> Tannehill and reach the same conclusion? Tebow is
> a better QB.

See this is what I mean. I read this and couldn't stop laughing for about three minutes.

This is so funny, you can't get mad at it. You can only laugh.


You know what DK? Whenever I feel sad or mad, I'm going to seek out your posts and have a good laugh.

Whether you intend it or not, you are very good for my health.

I do confess to a temperature rise when I fight certain people on the board but you, on the other hand, once I learned that nobody on Earth can in the slightest way divert you from your, shall we say Path, really amuse me.

So there, I've changed my mind. I'm no longer distressed and tired of seeing you post here. As the motto of Dr. Strangelove was "How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb,"

my motto is "How I learned to stop getting angry and love laughing at DK's posts."

Tebow would be an upgrade at QB. He is a player that has achieved, not a guy that was just given a job.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

I read somewhere that's its a shame that the reason Tebow doesn't have a job is because of the Media. No one wants the circus . At this point he is being held hostage by his own fame.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tebow would be an upgrade at QB. He is a player
> that has achieved, not a guy that was just given a
> job.


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tebow would be an upgrade at QB. He is a
> player
> > that has achieved, not a guy that was just given
> a
> > job.
>
>
> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


Ditto to the 5th power.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DolfanKing Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Tebow would be an upgrade at QB. He is a
> > player
> > > that has achieved, not a guy that was just
> given
> > a
> > > job.
> >
> >
> >
> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>
>
> Ditto to the 5th power.




FINALLY!!!


Something I can agree with ChyrenB about.

LOL truth.

Co owner of the Giants Steve Tisch had this to say about Tebow recently and I kind of agree with his assessment of the Jets obviously doing him in... not good advice from his agent to sign with them...

"I think him going from the Broncos to the Jets was not in anybody's best interest......had another team picked him up after the Broncos, maybe he'd have a career."

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

not sure why tebow thinks it is beneath hom to consider another position. lots of college QBs with amazing college stats did it---kordell stewart, brad smith, a randell-el. But supposedly "team" oriented and all around greatest guy in the world Tim Tebow refuses, and we are supposed to care that no one wants to sign him as a QB.
Maybe because he's white?

::ducking::

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Crowder, you seem to be a big fan of his, you want him anywhere near this team? just curious, If so, in what capacity?

Tebow's a victim of his own successes. I think what gets his fans in such a tizzy is that no one will sign him and play him at QB even after he's proven he can win at the position aka Denver. However, what people don't want to understand is that Denver had to completely structure the offense around his limitations and mask a lot of his inaccuracy problems. Had he went into Denver and bombed I think he'd be sitting as a backup somewhere in the NFL right now.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder, you seem to be a big fan of his, you want
> him anywhere near this team? just curious, If so,
> in what capacity?


No, I don't want him anywhere on this team.. We don't have a need for him at QB right now, nor TE, nor FB.. I still think he could play and win with the right system and coaches... The Jets were just a horrible organization for him to have gone to, and possibly destroyed his shot at playing the QB position in the NFL currently..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not sure why tebow thinks it is beneath hom to
> consider another position. lots of college QBs
> with amazing college stats did it---kordell
> stewart, brad smith, a randell-el. But supposedly
> "team" oriented and all around greatest guy in the
> world Tim Tebow refuses, and we are supposed to
> care that no one wants to sign him as a QB.
> Maybe because he's white?
>
> ::ducking::

*******************************************

Did Tebow say playing another position was beneath him? That doesn't sound like Tebow.

From my understanding, he just wants to play QB because that's what he feels he is.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > not sure why tebow thinks it is beneath hom to
> > consider another position. lots of college QBs
> > with amazing college stats did it---kordell
> > stewart, brad smith, a randell-el. But
> supposedly
> > "team" oriented and all around greatest guy in
> the
> > world Tim Tebow refuses, and we are supposed to
> > care that no one wants to sign him as a QB.
> > Maybe because he's white?
> >
> > ::ducking::
>
> *******************************************
>
> Did Tebow say playing another position was beneath
> him? That doesn't sound like Tebow.
>
> From my understanding, he just wants to play QB
> because that's what he feels he is.


If nobody else feels he is, I wonder if he'll reconsider. Marlin Briscoe won two SBs with the Dolphins when he converted from QB to receiver. I'm sure Briscoe preferred to remain a quarterback, but eventually saw that he could contribute to a winning team as a receiver. He even completed a couple flea-flicker passes along the way, while lined up as WR.