THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The most we could
> > get for bess is a 5th rounder and he's more
> > valuable to this team than that.
>
> Really?
>
> Did someone survey GM's around the league, did
> then NFL pass a mandate that he can't go for more
> than that, or is some sports writers best guess?
>
> The plain truth of the matter is that NOBODY knows
> what we can get for Bess until we get an offer,
> and nobody is going to give their best offer at
> the start of the process.
>
> All it takes is one team with an itch it needs to
> scratch. If we can get a 3rd for Lorenzo Booker,
> or give up a 2nd for a turd like AJ Feeley, then
> its absurd to suggest that "the most we can get
> for a player is" 'x', especially so early in the
> process.
>
>
>
> > unless we are writing this season off already,
> and
> > the only players worth keeping are those we
> expect
> > will be on the roster in 2014.....
>
> Its about managing assets.
>
> If you know Bess is gone after this year, and you
> don't believe his being on the team is the
> difference between winning and losing a
> championship, then you have to consider any
> reasonable trade offers for him.
>
> It then becomes a matter of weighing the trade
> offer (whatever it turns out to be) versus the
> difference in production he gives you as the 4th
> WR in our offense in 2013 and the production of
> whomever takes that 4th WR spot
> (Matthews/Binns/Rookie?).
>
>
> So Berk, is Bess being on this team for 2013 going
> to help us achieve some important level of
> production this year that can't be replicated
> without him? (Before you answer that, keep in
> mind we were 2-0 without him at home and got
> crushed at NE.)
>
> If you can answer that question "yes" with a
> straight face, then the obvious answer is to keep
> him.
>
> If the answer to that query is "no", then you shop
> him and you weigh his projected impact VS whatever
> offers you get and you only make a deal that makes
> sense...ie for a draft pick you can turn into a
> player that CAN possibly have an impact on this
> team beyond next season.

tell me the last WR with no speed and pedestrian stats who fetched more than a 5th round pick and maybe I will join you all in your delusions of getting a better draft pick. We got a 5 for Teddy Bear Ginn who was 2 years removed from being a top 10 pick and 1 year from 2 KR TDs in a game, and is one of the fastest players in the league. Frankly I'd be surprised if we got even a 5th for Bess. I didn't read that any where, I just pay attention when players are traded and what they get for them. On the one hand, many on here are saying Bess is at best our #4 and #5 and a "progress stopper" for the great Rishard Matthews, and on the other hand, teams will give us a 3d round pick for him. I know we upgraded at WR, but it's not like we are the Giants at the position. Wallace is very good, but Hartline and Gibson haven't proven to be great nfl WRs, so it's not like being the #4 or #5 WR on this team means we have an embarassment of riches at the position. I expect we take a WR in the 2d round, and then Bess will truly be expendable. At which point I won't care if all we get for him is a 5th if he'd likely be cut anyway

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> tell me the last WR with no speed and pedestrian
> stats who fetched more than a 5th round pick and
> maybe I will join you all in your delusions of
> getting a better draft pick.

Umm...Wes Welker?

Undersized, 4.6 speed. Got a 2nd and a 7th...and we got the short end of the stick.

I'm not saying that Bess is better than Welker or even as good. But his numbers here were better than Welker's and they are very similar players.

Comparing him to Ginn is a joke. Ginn was a bust. He didn't want to compete or get hit. Bess is the opposite of that.

Bess is a legit starting slot WR for ANY team in the league that would use him in the slot.

Ginn was a kick returner when we dealt him. What we gave up to acquire Ginn couldn't be more irrelevant.

I just don't get all this constant disrespect for Devon Bess.

The kid is a damn good football player. And if Philbin can't use damn good football players then we have a serious problem. My opinion. Of course.

Ok we will see what, if anything, we get for bess in a trade

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> Ok we will see what, if anything, we get for bess
> in a trade


Could well be that we don't get an offer that makes it worth trading him.

All I was saying is that saying he's only worth a 5th is a highly subjective value.

do you think we are going to take a WR in the 2d or 3d? pretty sure one at 12 ain't happening. But it would be very smart (and out of character) to try to improve a strong position on this team. Supposed to be some good value WRs in the 2d and 3d, hope we do take one.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I think it is on the radar to take a WR in the 2nd or 3rd. What would prevent that IMO, is if a defensive player were to fall, that Ireland valued. I could see them using those picks on LB, Safety,DB type of guys..For instance, if Matt Elam fell to the 2nd rd, I would think that would be hard to pass up...
But I would also think Swopes or Bailey, etc could be in play as well.. With RT and Sherman's connection to Swope and his 40 time, you would think if he is healthy enough we might have a lot of interest... The draft is very unpredictable with so many variables, it is hard to say, who will fall our way..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> do you think we are going to take a WR in the 2d
> or 3d? pretty sure one at 12 ain't happening. But
> it would be very smart (and out of character) to
> try to improve a strong position on this team.
> Supposed to be some good value WRs in the 2d and
> 3d, hope we do take one.


Yes.

I think we'll take one in the first 5 picks.

I won't rule out the first, although its less likely.

It just comes down to value.

Our biggest need is OT but the drop off between Jonson (#3) and whomever you want to call #4 is pretty big so I doubt we reach for the 4th best OT over other positions.

When I look at the likely available prospects at @12 there are only a few that I like enough NOT to trade out of that spot. One of them is Tavon Austin, so I'm not going to say there is no way we take a WR at #12.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2013 09:42AM by THE Truth.

there's no rb anywhere near worth drafting at 12 overall, so I think taking one in the 1st can safely be ruled out. only possible first round rb is lacy and I don't see him going earlier than the 20s

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
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> I just don't get all this constant disrespect for
> Devon Bess.
>
> The kid is a damn good football player. And if
> Philbin can't use damn good football players then
> we have a serious problem. My opinion. Of course.

My same thoughts BNF. And the only disrespect he gets is from fans. Philbin thinks having depth is a necessity & I wholeheartedly agree. Bess isn't slated to be traded in 2013 unless the team is approached and is given an offer they can't refuse, & just about every other player on the roster is in that very same category and those are JP's own words from an interview at the recent NFL meeting.

I like bess too. but if we draft a WR in the 1st (doubtful) or 2d (more likely), then I'd think that puts Bess #5 on the depth chart after wallace, hartline, gibson, and the rookie. #5 WRs with a decent salary tend to get cut.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just don't get all this constant disrespect for
> Devon Bess.
>
> The kid is a damn good football player. And if
> Philbin can't use damn good football players then
> we have a serious problem. My opinion. Of course.

**************************************************

Well BNF, Philbin won't get rid of a "damn good football player" unless he has someone better to take his place.

If Bess is traded (or let go) before camp even starts....THAT I will question. But if Bess goes AFTER a lot of the OTAs and training camp is under way, then we know that someone else was a better player.

Philbin knows Bess is a good player. He won't dump him just for the hell of it.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> there's no rb anywhere near worth drafting at 12
> overall, so I think taking one in the 1st can
> safely be ruled out. only possible first round rb
> is lacy and I don't see him going earlier than the
> 20s

*******************************************

RB? Maybe I haven't been following these threads very closely (or not close enough) but who even mentioned taking a RB with the 12th pick?

Number 1, Miami doesn't have a real "need" for a RB, and number 2, you are correct -- besides Lacy, there are no other RBs worth taking (probably) in the first 20 picks.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> I like bess too. but if we draft a WR in the 1st
> (doubtful) or 2d (more likely), then I'd think
> that puts Bess #5 on the depth chart after
> wallace, hartline, gibson, and the rookie. #5 WRs
> with a decent salary tend to get cut.

************************************************

Hard to say, Berk.

Right now, Bess is Miami's #3 receiver (not including TE). Gibson and whomever else comes on board first have to beat him out for Bess to drop. If Gibson and/or any other receiver does that, then yeah, Bess will drop on the list (and maybe right out of Miami). But, Bess is going to give ALL these guys a run for their money and may the best man win.

Guaranteed, Bess isn't planning on going anywhere.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > there's no rb anywhere near worth drafting at
> 12
> > overall, so I think taking one in the 1st can
> > safely be ruled out. only possible first round
> rb
> > is lacy and I don't see him going earlier than
> the
> > 20s
>
> *******************************************
>
> RB? Maybe I haven't been following these threads
> very closely (or not close enough) but who even
> mentioned taking a RB with the 12th pick?
>
> Number 1, Miami doesn't have a real "need" for a
> RB, and number 2, you are correct -- besides Lacy,
> there are no other RBs worth taking (probably) in
> the first 20 picks.

totally agree. I was just responding to Truth's comment that he wouldn't rule out that we take a RB with the 12

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> totally agree. I was just responding to Truth's
> comment that he wouldn't rule out that we take a
> RB with the 12


Where did I say that?

I'm pretty sure i'm on record saying that you can rule out QB, RB, P, and K for different reasons in the first round of this draft and there is no DB other than Milliner who I would consider at #12. Every other position is in the discussion.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > totally agree. I was just responding to Truth's
> > comment that he wouldn't rule out that we take
> a
> > RB with the 12
>
>
> Where did I say that?
>
> I'm pretty sure i'm on record saying that you can
> rule out QB, RB, P, and K for different reasons in
> the first round of this draft and there is no DB
> other than Milliner who I would consider at #12.
> Every other position is in the discussion.


you're right, you didn't. I misread your post where you were referring to possibly taking a WR at 12, not a RB. my bad.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > berkeley223 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > totally agree. I was just responding to
> Truth's
> > > comment that he wouldn't rule out that we
> take
> > a
> > > RB with the 12
> >
> >
> > Where did I say that?
> >
> > I'm pretty sure i'm on record saying that you
> can
> > rule out QB, RB, P, and K for different reasons
> in
> > the first round of this draft and there is no
> DB
> > other than Milliner who I would consider at #12.
>
> > Every other position is in the discussion.
>
>
> you're right, you didn't. I misread your post
> where you were referring to possibly taking a WR
> at 12, not a RB. my bad.


No sweat. Thought I might have been having a "Bob" moment for a second there...had me worried.

It's not about whether Bess is a good player or not. Is he in the plans for 2014 or not? He's not under contract. In 2014, Miami has $27M committed to Mike Wallace, Brian Hartline, and Brandon Gibson. What are the odds that Davone Bess is also going to be on the roster at $4M per year or so? I would say the chances of that are pretty slim. So, if he's not in the plans for 2014, they have to do their due diligence and see what his trade value is. And if he's not in the plans for 2014, they have to evaluate if they want him blocking the progress of a younger player, like Matthews, Binns, or a draftee or two.

If you are looking at 2013 in a vacuum, then Bess on the roster makes perfect sense. He's a solid player who can fill a role. But, when you look at 2014, that's when you have to question Bess' fit on this team.

Key part of the input for this question is not yet known!

That is who performs best in this totally new Dolphin passing attack?

I wouldn't count Bess out yet. he's a great possession receiver and the team will find ways to pay him if he performs!

Lots of new moving parts with Wallace, Gibson, Tannehill with a years experience, TE in the mix. I'm thinking Bess will get open often.

This is the first year I can remember in a while where defenses will be spending a lot of time figuring out how to stop the Miami passing attack.

Go FINS!