Poll

Who wins the #3 WR spot?

Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
11 votes were received.

Brandon Gibson	5		45%
Davone Bess	6		55%

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We know who our number 1 and number 2 receivers are....Wallace and Hartline.

Philbin has incenuated that we will not run many 4 WR sets so who wins the #3 spot?

I think it's Gibson which is why Bess becomes expendable. If we have our 1,2 & 3 spots locked up then 3, 4 and 5 (if active) need to be able to play all the positions. For instance, our #4 should be able to step in for Wallace should he come out of the game and the #5 should be able to take over for Hartline. I could see Gibson playing outside where Hartline is but I don't see Bess lining up and having much success outside.

This is why I think we move Bess and fill the position with a bigger and faster player.

This is also why I don't think we draft Tavon Austin. Most scouts say he will not be successfull outside because of his height.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Gibson & Matthews , bess traded or released

Can't understand why people are always wanting to get rid of the 4th of 5th receiver?

Successful passing attacks these days have 5 receivers and having a fresh one and depth all the time is a good thing.

No Bess does not need to be released! or traded!

Bess had 778 yards in 13 games last year. Gibson had 691 in 16 games... Bess's lack of TD's was more about a rookie QB or offensive scheme which had issues in the redzone IMO not Bess, as Hartline only had 1 TD last year as well..

Trading away Bess would be foolish.. He is a legit player, and could really shine this year in the slot with Wallace and Hartline drawing most of the focus from defenses.. If the offense can figure out its redzone issues from last year, I think 5-8 TD's and 1000 yards is entirely possible for Bess this year.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Struggles with separation time to move forward. Wouldn't be surprised to see us draft Austin, Goodwin, or Wheaton and see Matthews get some slot time


A 3rd or 4th can land us a nice additional piece

Bess had decent yardage last year because he was the number 2 receiver. He is now fighting for a #3 or 4 spot and will not sniff those kinds of numbers. I can't think of any #3 Wr's that had 1000 yards, let alone a #4.

It's either get something for him this year or let him walk and get nothing next year. It's going to come down to the battle in camp IMO. You don't pay your 4th receiver 3 mil.

I know there is an emotional attachment from some fans because he was such an overachiever but i can guarantee the coaches and GM have no such attachment.

Bess is going to get 8 td's this year as a #3 or 4 when he averaged 2.4 a year?

I agree he could be very good in the slot but he has to win the job first. Gibson also offers value as a red zone target. Bess does not. if you are going to be a slot receiver in the WCO, I think you have to have yac ability. Bess is limited.

They will either run a 3 receiver set with a slot receiver or a 2 TE set.

It's not just about being the number 3,4 or 5 receiver. It's also about what you can do if the number 1 or 2 go down. Gibson could probably take over for Hartline should he get injured. He could also play Hartline's spot as Hartline moves to Wallaces spot...should Wallace go down but then we are back to square one. We need someone who can stretch the field in that scenario. That's why I think we add a speedy guy in the draft who can play multiple positions....maybe someone like Swope who could play that number 1 spot in a pinch as well as the slot.

We may not get a 2013 draft pick for him since he will probably compete in camp but I could see a late trade for a 2014 pick should Gibson (or a rookie) take his spot.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Bess is a FA next year AND he doesn't really fit the prototype WCO WR mold, if you can get a decent pick for him (3/4/5th rounder?), then you trade him.

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> Bess is a FA next year AND he doesn't really fit
> the prototype WCO WR mold, if you can get a decent
> pick for him (3/4/5th rounder?), then you trade
> him.


Exactly.

If we aren't going to extend bess, and all sings are that we aren't, then it would be foolish to turn down a decent offer for him.

At the very least, if we got a 4th round pick for him, we'd be able to replace him with a younger, less expensive WR who fits the philbin profile and who could be here for the next 4+ years.

You can't just think about this years roster when you weigh these moves. You have to plan for the future at the same time.

I would take a 4th rounder for Bess, but seriously doubt we get offered any more than a 6th. I don't really care if he will be around next year, he is worth more to us this year than a 6th round pick. He is not making all that much money and we can easily afford his contract.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Bess will be #3 when the season starts, but he may drop to #4 during the year. Either way, he'll still be a Phin.

It's really not a question about 2013 when it comes to Bess. It's: "will he be here in 2014?" If the answer is "no," or "not likely," then the Fins have to do their due diligence and see what they could get in a trade for him.

I am a Bess fan. But, he's not a redzone threat. It's wrong to say his issues with getting into the endzone were due to playing with a rookie QB. Bess has been the #2 most targeted receiver here since he arrived. And he has not really produced TDs, whether it's been Pennington, Henne, Moore, or Tannehill. It is what it is. Hartline has not been a redzone threat, either, but the thing that gives him the benefit of the doubt is that he's only been more than the #3 option for one season.

Philbin has said he wants interchangeable WRs. That's not Bess, he is limited to the slot to be effective. Philbin has also said he doesn't envision a lot of 4 WR sets, because it limits your options. They have 4 WRs making $3M or more. And they don't plan on a lot of 4 WR sets. And only one of those 4 WRs is not under contract for 2014. So, you connect the dots, and it is very easy to envision a scenario in which they draft another WR fairly high (think, a Stedman Bailey, who is sort of a Green Bay prototype), and then trade Bess.

Maybe they love Bess, and he'll still be the main slot guy. But, the move to add Gibson at $3M as a #4 WR seems odd if that's the case. If they are committed to Bess, why not just draft a guy or two, and have them compete with Binns and Matthews?

We didnt score a lot of points last year our redzone offense was atrocious... Yet both Hartline and Bess had career years for yard and career worse for TDs... In 2011 we had 20 TD's scored in the passing game, which isnt very good, last year we had 12... From what I watched last year, the rookie was certainly part of the issues in the redzone passing game. Was it all on him, no of course not, was he a part of it, yes... Bess had 8 TD's in the previous 2 years combined, last year he had 1... That isnt on Bess IMO...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2013 10:11AM by Crowder52.

Why would you want to get rid of a player that you know what he can do for a player that hasnt played in your system.............and you dont know anything about him....


We gotta keep bess because you dont get rid of your good players...Like we got rid of welker.

neither is going to be the 3rd receiver...hartline is going to be the third receiver.

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> Bess is a FA next year AND he doesn't really fit
> the prototype WCO WR mold, if you can get a decent
> pick for him (3/4/5th rounder?), then you trade
> him.


See I could mess with ya, dolph, like sometimes you mess with me and ask "if a 5th rounder is a decent pick, then the only INDECENT pick must be a 6th."


Actually I think only a late second or third can be called a "decent pick" and everything after is grasping at straws.

That's why I am so opposed to Ireland's modus operandi of relying on free agency and then trading down and down and down and stockpiling guys that the coaches never even TRUST to put on the field, even during blowouts.

samsam3738 Wrote:
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> Why would you want to get rid of a player that you
> know what he can do for a player that hasnt played
> in your system.............and you dont know
> anything about him....
>
>
> We gotta keep bess because you dont get rid of
> your good players...Like we got rid of welker.

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I'm not advocating that we get rid of Bess; I like what he has done.

But, he is making $4M(?) and I believe Gibson signed for much less, and Bess is on the last year of his deal. Gibson is also a much bigger target than Bess. From what the coaches have been saying, they want WRs that can play all the receiver positions, and what I am reading, Bess is only a slot guy.

Is Gibson better than Bess? Know one knows at this point, as they have yet to get out on the field. But, if Miami picks up another receiver in the draft (which they should) then what does the future hold for Bess?

Can Miami get much in a trade with Bess?

Holy, I am amazed people want to get rid of a play maker like Bess. HE is always open.

The people that are saying Bess is not that good are the same ones that said Welker was not that good.

I'd be stunned if the Dolphins got rid of Bess, it would border on insanity.

So are all of you that are outraged about the thought of trading Bess this year, OK with signing him to a long term deal at 4 or 5 mil a year next year? Not sure in this day and age of FA, why people get so attached to certain players, EVERYONE is expendable, especially ones that don't really fit the new system you're trying to implement.

@ Chyren, maybe I was a little generous in calling a 5th rnd pick "decent", but I just dont see a huge trade market for a guy with Bess's skill set, 3rd/4th would be great, but i'm being realistic, and if Miami has no intention of re-signing him, then i'll take a 5th for him, rather see that then just cutting him or letting him walk after the season.

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> So are all of you that are outraged about the
> thought of trading Bess this year, OK with signing
> him to a long term deal at 4 or 5 mil a year next
> year? Not sure in this day and age of FA, why
> people get so attached to certain players,
> EVERYONE is expendable, especially ones that don't
> really fit the new system you're trying to
> implement.



Exactly. But you'll never convince anyone of that who doesn't already get it dolphaholic.




>
> @ Chyren, maybe I was a little generous in calling
> a 5th rnd pick "decent", but I just dont see a
> huge trade market for a guy with Bess's skill set,
> 3rd/4th would be great, but i'm being realistic,
> and if Miami has no intention of re-signing him,
> then i'll take a 5th for him, rather see that then
> just cutting him or letting him walk after the
> season.


I think we'll trade him at the draft, for a 3rd or 4th, to a non west coast team who needs a slot specialist who can contribute right now and doesn't want to have to hope that a 3rd or 4th round pick can step in right away.

That, or it will be after the draft for a pick next year.

why is this year totally irrelevant? If bess can help the team this year (and unless we draft an excellent WR this year, he will be at worst the #4), who cares if he won't be on the team next year bc his contract will be up? The most we could get for bess is a 5th rounder and he's more valuable to this team than that.
unless we are writing this season off already, and the only players worth keeping are those we expect will be on the roster in 2014.....

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

quote: unless we are writing this season off already, and the only players worth keeping are those we expect will be on the roster in 2014.....



Exactly!

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> quote: unless we are writing this season off
> already, and the only players worth keeping are
> those we expect will be on the roster in
> 2014.....
>
>
>
> Exactly!

That's ridiculous. Do you not understand the value of veterans in mentoring younger players? Do you not realize we will be going into TC with a roster about twice the size than one we'll be starting the season with? BOTH those facts are reasons for hanging on to players we don't expect to be on the 2014 team.

Id understand that if bess wasnt a great player, but he is.

And now he is going to be even better that he has some weapons along his side.

Wallace will have to be double teamed and that other receiver from the rams will atract some attention...

Therefore hartline and bess with be way more open than last year.

I don't think anyone is saying we should get rid of Bess just because he won't be here next year.

I'm saying we should...

A. try and get something for him IF (and only IF) he is beaten out and becomes our 4th or 5th WR

B. take that 3.6 mil in cap space and put it toward someone who will do more than get 30-40 snaps this year, should he get demoted.

There are two or three ways he could get beaten out of a job this year....

A. new rookie
B. Brandon Gibson
C. Rishard Mathews, Thigpen or other

#3 and #4 WR's HAVE to play special teams.

Bess is a safe punt return man but do we really want "safe"? Thigpen most likely takes over those duties full time this year because he offers big play ability and no whas more experience fielding balls under fire. He was ranked in the top 5 last year in punt and kick returns.

That means he has to find another job on ST's but he is limited because of his lack of speed....he is not fast enough to be a gunner.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> The most we could
> get for bess is a 5th rounder and he's more
> valuable to this team than that.

Really?

Did someone survey GM's around the league, did then NFL pass a mandate that he can't go for more than that, or is some sports writers best guess?

The plain truth of the matter is that NOBODY knows what we can get for Bess until we get an offer, and nobody is going to give their best offer at the start of the process.

All it takes is one team with an itch it needs to scratch. If we can get a 3rd for Lorenzo Booker, or give up a 2nd for a turd like AJ Feeley, then its absurd to suggest that "the most we can get for a player is" 'x', especially so early in the process.



> unless we are writing this season off already, and
> the only players worth keeping are those we expect
> will be on the roster in 2014.....

Its about managing assets.

If you know Bess is gone after this year, and you don't believe his being on the team is the difference between winning and losing a championship, then you have to consider any reasonable trade offers for him.

It then becomes a matter of weighing the trade offer (whatever it turns out to be) versus the difference in production he gives you as the 4th WR in our offense in 2013 and the production of whomever takes that 4th WR spot (Matthews/Binns/Rookie?).


So Berk, is Bess being on this team for 2013 going to help us achieve some important level of production this year that can't be replicated without him? (Before you answer that, keep in mind we were 2-0 without him at home and got crushed at NE.)

If you can answer that question "yes" with a straight face, then the obvious answer is to keep him.

If the answer to that query is "no", then you shop him and you weigh his projected impact VS whatever offers you get and you only make a deal that makes sense...ie for a draft pick you can turn into a player that CAN possibly have an impact on this team beyond next season.

Yo. Haven't you heard? We don't number our receivers #1 #2 #3 #4 et cetera anymore. LOL.

Here's a clue: Bess and Gibson can be on the field at the same time. No problem. Having 4 legit receivers? NO PROBLEM. Keeping Bess on the roster? NOT A PROBLEM. Why are you looking for a problem???

Can someone shut the front door about this?

Just kidding.

Not.

BNF.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Id understand that if bess wasnt a great player,
> but he is.
>
> And now he is going to be even better that he has
> some weapons along his side.
>
> Wallace will have to be double teamed and that
> other receiver from the rams will atract some
> attention...
>
> Therefore hartline and bess with be way more open
> than last year.

Like when we had Marshall?

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > quote: unless we are writing this season off
> > already, and the only players worth keeping are
> > those we expect will be on the roster in
> > 2014.....
> >
> >
> >
> > Exactly!
>
> That's ridiculous. Do you not understand the
> value of veterans in mentoring younger players?
> Do you not realize we will be going into TC with a
> roster about twice the size than one we'll be
> starting the season with? BOTH those facts are
> reasons for hanging on to players we don't expect
> to be on the 2014 team.


What did we do with both Kevin Burnett and Karlos Dansby? Both good players who would help us in 2013, but neither was going to be on the roster in 2014.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Id understand that if bess wasnt a great
> player,
> > but he is.
> >
> > And now he is going to be even better that he
> has
> > some weapons along his side.
> >
> > Wallace will have to be double teamed and that
> > other receiver from the rams will atract some
> > attention...
> >
> > Therefore hartline and bess with be way more
> open
> > than last year.
>
> Like when we had Marshall?

Im hoping wallace and that other receiver do way better than marshall especially with the dropsies and all the on field tantrums.

Marshall wasnt a burner he was actually on the slowside. No deepthreat there.

Wallace will require way more attention than marshall did.