Matthews & Gibson make him expendable. Get a 4th or 5th

We can get a good running back OL DB, DT, LB or even WR with the pick

Really should consider releasing Carpenter, patterson & Marshall also to free up some cap room, unless we can;'t find a comparably priced CB on the market

Tracy Porter?

No. Absolutely not. Bess is far more valuable to this team than a stupid 4th or 5th round pick.

He's worth a 2nd to the right team. Anything less than that and I'm keeping him.

My opinion. Of course.

BNF.

Come on BNF, No team is giving up a second for bess, take the aqua glasses off. I like him but need to add more speed, and have to add an RB.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
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> No. Absolutely not. Bess is far more valuable to
> this team than a stupid 4th or 5th round pick.
>
> He's worth a 2nd to the right team. Anything less
> than that and I'm keeping him.
>
> My opinion. Of course.
>
> BNF.


but you do know he's gone after this season...right?

If you're decision is that you'd rather have him for one last year as your 4th WR then a 3rd, or 4th round pick I can accept that.

I just want to clarify if you think you are keeping him long term if you refuse any trade that isn't a 2nd.

i say this isn't a move we make till during or after the draft. if we take a WR at 12 or in the 2d, then we've got too many WRs and Bess is the odd man out, at which point I'd rather trade him for a pick (mid rounder at best) then end up cutting him for nothing
but if it turns out we don't take any WRs high, then we need bess. no reason to rush a move like that before we see who else we add between now and after the draft

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> i say this isn't a move we make till during or
> after the draft.

You are probably right.

I'm sure we'll have those conversations before the draft so we know who our potential trading partners are.

Of course if someone were to offer a #2 or early #3 inthat feeling out process I'd bet we jump at it and not give them the opportunity to change their mind.

i can't see bess fetching more than a 4 or 5. marshall went for 2 3ds (prior to that 2 2ds), harvin for a 1st and a 3d, santonio holmes for a 5th, boldin for a 4th and 3d, bess isn't as good as any of those guys at the time of the trade. I think expecting even a 3d rounder is just dreaming.

I still hope we take austin at 12 or a WR with one of our 2d rounders. we could turn WR into a position of incredible strength in 1 offseason

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I thought Boldin went for a 6th?

jlyell13 Wrote:
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> I thought Boldin went for a 6th?


This year, yes he did.


I think Berk was referring to the deal that brought him to Baltimore a few years back.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> i can't see bess fetching more than a 4 or 5.
> marshall went for 2 3ds (prior to that 2 2ds),
> harvin for a 1st and a 3d, santonio holmes for a
> 5th, boldin for a 4th and 3d, bess isn't as good
> as any of those guys at the time of the trade. I
> think expecting even a 3d rounder is just
> dreaming.
>
> I still hope we take austin at 12 or a WR with one
> of our 2d rounders. we could turn WR into a
> position of incredible strength in 1 offseason


Take Holmes and Marshall out of the equation.

They were problem children being sold at a discount.

Bess isn't like that at all.

He's more like Boldin or Wes Welker.

I think the right team would give up a 3rd for him. I don't think he should be dealt for less than a 4th.

Did we not learn a lesson from welker..bess is the kind of core guy you want to keep imo.HE is a hard working productive class guy and without a core of guys liek that all the talent in the league will not field you a championship team.The pats were the absolute best example of this and we should look to build around guys liek this(was a bit bummed in losing bush as well)

Im not saying he is an absolute no trade i realize he isnt that kind of impact player but i am amazed at how eager everyone is to trade him for someone that MIGHT help the team and ignore his soild production and teh stability he seems to provide th elockeroom. To trade Bess for a draft choice would be assinine IMO.

AS a side note guys like Bess make it more fun to root for a teamGive me a team of Besses over a team of Marshalls and ochocincos anyday.

The contract Welker received just shows how devalued the slot receiver is in the NFL. Welker is better than Bess. Welker only got a 5 mil a year offer from his own team and only 6 mil from Denver. Jennings got 9.5 mil because he can play any position.

Amendola got a 6 mil deal and he was probably overpaid by the Pats.

That's not to say the slot isn't an important positio, only that it's not as sought after as an outside threat.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

angryseas2000 Wrote:
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> Im not saying he is an absolute no trade i realize
> he isnt that kind of impact player but i am amazed
> at how eager everyone is to trade him for someone
> that MIGHT help the team and ignore his soild
> production and teh stability he seems to provide
> th elockeroom. To trade Bess for a draft choice
> would be assinine IMO.

It's not about being eager to trade him. It's understanding that he may not be in this regime's long term plans. He's not under contract for 2014. This regime has said they want WRs who can line up anywhere. Bess has proven that he is only effective in the slot. In spite of being the starting Z WR in 2012, 43 of his 61 catches came when he was lined up in the slot. And Bess didn't do himself any favors with 6 drops out of the slot, which translates to dropping 12% of the catchable passes thrown to him in the slot. He has played with Chad Pennington, Chad Henne, Matt Moore, and Ryan Tannehill, and he has been the same guy with all 4 of them. So, he is what he is. He's not going to get better. And in spite of being the team's #2 target over his 5 seasons, he has just 12 career TDs. I like Bess. I think he's a good player. But, if he is not part of the long term plan, then is it better to trade him and get some value for him, rather to just let him leave with no compensation?

Jim Irsay has been tweeting that the Colts are close to adding a WR in a deal that he has been working on for 5 days. Could that be Bess?

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> angryseas2000 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> --

> Jim Irsay has been tweeting that the Colts are
> close to adding a WR in a deal that he has been
> working on for 5 days. Could that be Bess?


was thinking the same thing. Irsay was gabbing before the vontae deal too

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

See "Inside Dolphins passing game " link from the news wire if it doesn't load

Just listened to that. Also Gibson played the slot on only 8% of his time last season. With that said it's hard to tell what Ireland has up his sleeve in relation to Bess. It could go either way depending on the draft strategy. One thing for sure, having added Wallace & Gibson certainly makes the Fins passing game a lot more dynamic relieving the workload that Hartline & Bess had to carry.

With an up tempo offense that this team intends to try and implement, it makes sense to have enough WR's to rotate in & out. So thinking about it all with that perspective in mind, it makes it even harder for me to guess what's in store for Bess. I'm leaning towards believing that he isn't traded; seems like we have lots of picks to work with as it stands. I think it's too close to call until the draft comes around.

A second round pick for Davone Bess. That's funny.

There are free agents available better than Bess AND many WR's in the draft....so no one is giving up draft picks for him at this juncture.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Not being a big x's and o's guys(can talk hockey stategy) I will certainly bow to the likes of yourself mark when it coems to to the finer details of how certain players fit into certain schemes. I just see Bess as one of those core guys you wantthat helps the caoch to get everyone pulling int the same direction. Perhaps im giving Bess to much credit here i dont know but i as i said before i have an easier tiem rooting for a team with players like him welker, Zach T and even Ricky Williams than a team full of ultra talented ME First guys like B Marshall Joey POrter types and believe you have a better chance of actually winning a SB with them. If Bess truly doent fit the scheme that is one thing although i would think a west coast type offense would be right up hiw alley.. But if we are trying to replace Bess with a something a bit flashier I dont buy it. Even if he is not the perfect fit he seems to be the type of player you try to find a way to make fit. JMHO

eesti Wrote:
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> There are free agents available better than Bess
> AND many WR's in the draft....so no one is giving
> up draft picks for him at this juncture.


I don't know eesti.

There really aren't any UFA's out there that are better than Bess unless you like 32 year old Brandon Lloyd or maybe Julian Edleman.

I think that any team not running a west coast offense and looking for a wr who can contribute right away would be interested in him. Especially since it won't cost them a fortune to extend him.

Sure they could draft a rookie but can they rely on that guy for 60 catches and 800 yards this year? Probably not.

I'd be very surprised if there was no market for Bess at all.

I think a 2nd is fantasy. I'm hoping for a later 3rd from a contender looking for immediate impact but I'd expect a 4th.

No doubt Bess is a class act and the type of team player that Philbin prefers, angryseas. I too make sense of mark's theory as well. I'm just wondering what the benefit would be to trade him now. It's not like Bess is killing our cap, & I can easily see him fitting in multiple WR sets even though some consider him to be a one trick pony in the slot.

Boldin was traded for only a 6th. To me a sixth rounder is more likely to be cut after preseason once the camp fodder need is fulfilled. Chances of finding a solid player worthy of keeping is harder in the lower rounds. So if we ended up trading Bess for a 6th and that dude is given the ax, we basically just gave Bess away when we really didn't need to.

Now IF they intend to go after Austin early in the draft, then it would make sense to try and trade Bess. Austin won't last long, he's a goner in the 1st round. The Dolphins sent three people to scout him, so that's a possibility. Personally I'd be content with keeping a vet core of WR's
for THill and use that high pick for a stud CB. I'm tired of Brady torching us at will.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No doubt Bess is a class act and the type of team
> player that Philbin prefers, angryseas. I too make
> sense of mark's theory as well. I'm just wondering
> what the benefit would be to trade him now. It's
> not like Bess is killing our cap, & I can easily
> see him fitting in multiple WR sets even though
> some consider him to be a one trick pony in the
> slot.
>
> Boldin was traded for only a 6th. To me a sixth
> rounder is more likely to be cut after preseason
> once the camp fodder need is fulfilled. Chances of
> finding a solid player worthy of keeping is harder
> in the lower rounds. So if we ended up trading
> Bess for a 6th and that dude is given the ax, we
> basically just gave Bess away when we really
> didn't need to.
>
> Now IF they intend to go after Austin early in the
> draft, then it would make sense to try and trade
> Bess. Austin won't last long, he's a goner in the
> 1st round. The Dolphins sent three people to scout
> him, so that's a possibility. Personally I'd be
> content with keeping a vet core of WR's
> for THill and use that high pick for a stud CB.
> I'm tired of Brady torching us at will.


Boldin is a very old 32 and carried a $6m cap hit. That's why he only went for a 6th.

Bess is 5 years younger and in the prime of his career.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just listened to that. Also Gibson played the slot
> on only 8% of his time last season. With that said
> it's hard to tell what Ireland has up his sleeve
> in relation to Bess.

Gibson played the slot 22% of the time in 2011, when Amendola missed most of the season for the Rams. Playing the slot is easier than playing the X or the Z. You get more free releases from the line, you often work against zone coverage, you often work against inferior coverage guys, and if you are manned up, the defender can't use the sideline to help cover you. So, it's an easy transition for many guys to move from X or Z to the slot. The kind of guys you'd be worried about moving to the slot are tall receivers who don't get in and out of their breaks very well.

Gibson is pretty prototypical for what Green Bay looked for in WRs, in terms of size, about 6', 205 lbs. Bess is limited to the slot because of his size and his speed, mostly his speed. Bess ran a 4.68 coming out of college, and he probably is only getting slower as he gets older. With that kind of speed, and no size to use to his advantage, Bess is easily covered as one of the outside receivers, matched up with starting caliber corners. Put him inside, where he has more room to work, and can use his quickness more, and he's very effective. But, Gibson and Hartline could certainly easily transition to playing more slot. And you'll try to get Wallace in the slot more, too, because it can allow him to get more free releases.

Good assessment there mark.

With our first I'd like to see us grab either Allen, Austin or Patterson...and I personally prefer Allen or Pattersom because they have much better size.

Then, I'd like to see us keep Bess for one more year and allow the rookie to develop with limited time in the regular passing game while he returns kicks for a year...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2013 12:54AM by Ken.