if a bonified #1 is gone could we trade down to 23 & 25 or 23 & a second and get a WR , CB, or OL & DE? Not sure

Could Land 2 of Allen, Austin, Hunter , Eifert, Carradine, Banks, Cyprien, Hopkins, Fluker, Datone Jones, Vacarro, Trufant, maybe Demontre moore to go with 2 seconds, 2 thirds, & 2 4ths

Loading up!

I would but who would minny trade up for?
btw the best we could get in that trade down is another 2d, no way we get 2 1sts

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

They likely will take a WR Hunter, Austin or Allen, and rumored to like Datone Jones

They don't need to move up to 12 to get those players.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

No more trading down. There is no need to. We have 4 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Why give up the #12 overall pick? How has trading down worked out for us in the past?

I agree no more trading down.

I'm not saying we should or shouldn't. I think a case could be made either way.

As TheTruth says (paraphrasing)...trading down was not the problem. The problem was not getting the right player. We traded down and got Odrick but could have had gotten Carlos Dunlap, Daryl Washington or Gronkowski.

Then again, the real problem wasn't with the 1st pick that year, it was with the second since we could have gotten Odrick and those players mentioned above instead of Misi.

If you really want to be pissed about trading down, just think we could have gotten Jason Pierre-Paul or DeMAryius Thomas and Rob Gronkowski with our first two picks.

I think it's a bigger risk when you trade down too far.

I may think about it if the trade invloved STL since they have picks 18 and 22.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I think the biggest risk is when you trade down in the first round period.

A while back We traded down from 20th spot to like the 31st or 32nd ......We missed randy moss....and got john avery instead....

There is a big difference Going from a hall of famer to a DUD.

Jimmy Johnson is a hall of famer when it came to drafting defensive players...But when it came to offensive players he is a BUST.

I never got over not drafting randy moss...in his prime years.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jimmy Johnson is a hall of famer when it came to
> drafting defensive players...But when it came to
> offensive players he is a BUST.
>
> I never got over not drafting randy moss...in his
> prime years.


You mean like Ronnie ward? Dorian brew? Kirk pointer? Lacurtis jones? Brad Jackson? Those were all guys JJ took in the first four rounds that never contributed. JJ provided a number of good examples of how motto trade down.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jimmy Johnson is a hall of famer when it came
> to
> > drafting defensive players...But when it came
> to
> > offensive players he is a BUST.
> >
> > I never got over not drafting randy moss...in
> his
> > prime years.
>
>
> You mean like Ronnie ward? Dorian brew? Kirk
> pointer? Lacurtis jones? Brad Jackson? Those were
> all guys JJ took in the first four rounds that
> never contributed. JJ provided a number of good
> examples of how motto trade down.

Impossible to hit on every player unless you got a crystall ball...

Then there were...

1. Jason taylor Hall of famer to be
2. Zach Thomas Hall of famer to be
3. Sam madison Has a chance of getting to the hall of fame on day
4. Pat Surtain As good as Sam madison
5. Daryl Gardner Him and Tim Bowens dominated the running game.
6. Shawn Wooden very good safety
7. Kenny MIxon Better than average DE
8. Derrick Rodgers Better than average LB
9. Lorenzo Brommell Very Good DE

All defensive players...All starters

I see a couple , maybe 3 hall of famers in the list....And thats only 4 years of drafting. 96-97-98-99

4 years drafting.....average 2.1 defensive players a year that would start on this team. Most of them dominated their positions.

I take that any day

Imagine if he was here for 15 years....

Now name one offensive player he drafted thats going to make the hall of fame soon?

Again my point was he was a genious drafting defensive players and a dud drafting offensive players.

All i know eesti is that my wish is that they do not trade down in the first round any more....

At number 12 we have to find a gem...

you mean to tell me that there isnt more that 11 players in this draft that will become great players.....

They have scouts.....

Might be time to fire some of the scouts we have and hire new ones.

We havent picked a great player in years...

Hopefully this ends with tannehill.

Jury still out.

and you are overvaluing JJ's players. He hit on 4 players in 4 years. Madison, Surtain, Taylor and Zach.

Gardner was nothing special and he only played for around 4.5 years and had chronic back problems. Bowens was a dominant player and allowed Gardner to get a few while T-Bow was double teamed. Lets not forget JJ passed on Ray Lewis for Gardner.

Only two are HOF candidates. Thomas and Taylor....and it's iffy.

4 players in 4 years is nothing to brag about. Yes Taylor and Thomas were great but if JJ was so intuitive he would have taken them earlier. He got very lucky with those two players. The rest were very average.

This should favor your argument that trading down is bad as JJ was the king of trading down (and getting nothing). He traded down in the 1st round in 99 two times and eventually out of the first round for JJ Johnson. He went from 24th to 27 then from 27th to 39th.

He missed out on a pretty darn good LDE to compliment JT in the process. Patrick Kerney...and a complimentary LBer to Zach in Al Wilson. Also a RT in Jon Jansen and a pretty good RG in Randy Thomas. All that trying to force the issue in the running game and he is passing on PB lineman for a scrub RB.

I don't disagree with you about not trading down though. We have a better shot of getting an impact player at 12.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2013 05:54AM by eesti.

4 Close to hall of fame defensive players in 4 years....


I take that any day as opposed to the next 18 years after that......

Not 1.....A big ZERO....A bunch of scrubs.

But there are not 4 "close to HOF" players. Let's not count our chickens before they hatch. Most likely only one HOF player in JT. Zach will have a hard time comin gfrom the same draft/era as Ray Lewis. Madison and Suratin are nowhere near close to HOF players.

And I'd take a punch in the eye over a bullet to the head to but I would rather just get laid.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But there are not 4 "close to HOF" players. Let's
> not count our chickens before they hatch. Most
> likely only one HOF player in JT. Zach will have a
> hard time comin gfrom the same draft/era as Ray
> Lewis. Madison and Suratin are nowhere near close
> to HOF players.
>
> And I'd take a punch in the eye over a bullet to
> the head to but I would rather just get laid.


get laid?

its been 18 years of celibacy.

make that 14.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No more trading down. There is no need to. We have
> 4 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Why give up the
> #12 overall pick? How has trading down worked out
> for us in the past?


Hallelujah.

I think San Fran is going to be a big player in draft trades. They have more picks than anyone I believe. They may package them to go after players that can actually make their team. I would trade up (if I were them) to get a shot at a blue chip guy like Dee Milliner or maybe even Cordarelle Patterson.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problems with trading down are multiple, just
> talking in purely theoretical terms. Let's take
> Keenan Allen/Corrarelle Patterson for an example.
>
> PROBLEM 1: You might be wrong in your assessment
> of they "are not worth a no. 12 first round pick."
> They COULD go all to be all pro in their rookie
> year and Hall of Famers. But just because someone
> who pays their mortgage or for their vacation in
> the South of France by sitting behind a typewriter
> and decreeing on high says their not worth it, you
> are going to pass on them at no. 12.
>
> PROBLEM 2: Even if your theory is to pass on them
> and grab them later, they could be gone by the
> time you get back. Therefore, you are again
> trusting the idiots who say that you can get them
> in later rounds.
>
> PROBLEM 3: Those later rounds (2nd, 3rd etc)
> extra picks you pick up, just end up being guys
> who are good backups at best or who you cut as
> deadwood two or three years in the future.
>
> PROBLEM 4: (Unique to us) Ireland is an idiot and
> I would not trust him with the sale of the family
> cow.

************************************************

Miami is not going to draft either Patterson or Allen at 12. They will not be there for Miami when their first 2nd rounder comes up.

I see Patterson going a little after Miami's #12, and Allen near the bottom of the 1st.

Saying that, I have also seen at least one mock draft that has Patterson going in the top 10.

Basically, after those two, there will be some WRs bunched up with similar talents in the second round for Miami to choose from. I still say Ireland has to grab a WR with their first pick in the 2nd round.

I think Tayvon Austin is in play at #12

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

He may be in play, but I still highly doubt he will be Miami's pick at 12. In fact, I don't see him going until late in the 1st or somewhere in the 2nd.

Same old shit with us. Even tho we're in the top third of the draft it's still out of the real money.

Great orgs find a way to make great things happen. That's pretty much what we need at this point. No more BS. We need immediate impact results. And several home runs!

After all this time if Ireland can't do something really special (I'll take spectacular and amazing as well) then he's branded with mediocrity and I'd cut him loose like a bag of rancid peanuts.

This off-season is the "big chance" he's created to make his signature mark so he better shine like a 10-thousand watt LCD light bulb!

Just be a football luminary Jeff. Or get out of town.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2013 11:48AM by BigNastyFish.

if Ireland blows this offseason, we are set back another 5 years

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I think the signing of joe philbin saved irelands job if you know what i mean.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I think it's a bigger risk when you trade down too
> far.
>


That's exactly right.

Part of the problem with the trade down that netted us Odrick and Misi was that Parcells was adamant about replacing the 2nd rounder that we gave up that year for Marshall. That meant we had to drop to #28. had we been willing to take Philly's offer of a pair of 3's we'd have dropped to 24.

That would have put us in a position to take Dez Bryant (not that we would have), if it didn't change the entire dynamic of the first round. At worst we would have been able to deal that pick to Dallas and add another 3rd.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Miami is not going to draft either Patterson or
> Allen at 12. They will not be there for Miami
> when their first 2nd rounder comes up.
>
> I see Patterson going a little after Miami's #12,
> and Allen near the bottom of the 1st.
>
> Saying that, I have also seen at least one mock
> draft that has Patterson going in the top 10.
>
> Basically, after those two, there will be some WRs
> bunched up with similar talents in the second
> round for Miami to choose from. I still say
> Ireland has to grab a WR with their first pick in
> the 2nd round.

I believe you posted this prior to the acquisition of Wallace and Keller.

Now raw events, regardless of your theory, have proven you right.

Allen and Patterson are no longer on the table unless Ireland is living in a fool's paradise and think he can get them in the 2nd round (and I agree with your assessment that he can't).

Rams still need WR so I would expect them to take one. With Minny trading Harvin they could be after Austin even thouigh they signed Jennings.

I think teams will be looking to trade up if Warmack, Johnson, and Cooper drop