eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amendola is not a game changer either. This falls
> under the same theory I have been preaching for
> years. You don't sign someone (for anything other
> than the league minimum pay) and expect them to be
> something they have never been....In this case
> "something" means "healthy". Jake Grove, Justin
> Smiley, etc
>

that's actually a very sound philosophy

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Just saying: Welker was not a game changer for the Dolphins.

If you want to get good value in free agency, you have to recognize the players that are capable of doing more than they have done in the past. The alternative to that is that you pay guys for what they have done in the past, which is not always a good move either.

None of the teams interested in Jared Cook will be interested in him based on how great he performed for the Titans.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2013 05:35AM by Northeast Fin Fan.

Everyone says Welker was not a player until he went to NE. Well, that is true except the part that is overlooked is....

Welker was a player who needed some seasoning before he could contribute. Not unlike many WR's...Brian Hartline, Roddy White etc.

He got better every year in the league. Most WR's turn the corner in their 3rd or 4th year. It happens all the time. Especially with mid to late round or undrafted WR's.

Welker had 67/687 yards his last year (3rd year) in Miami.

Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe Welker was just ready to break out in his 4th year like Hartline did? It just so happens that it was the same time he went to NE.

Belichick didn't magically turn a 600 yard receiver into a 5 time Pro Bowler who catches 120 passes every year. Welker was ready to break out....and he did.

I don't see Tom Brady turning any other "scrub" WR's into All Pros.

All this "system WR" stuff is a bunch of bologna!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2013 06:48AM by eesti.

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
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> You obviously have your opinion. That is fine.
> Mine is different from yours. I like him as a
> player, and everything I have read agrees with
> Amendola being a very talented player. Honestly,
> have you watched Amendola play?
>
> Like I said, I would want him in the slot. Not
> out wide.
>
> Also, did you look at the PFF grades? He grades
> very highly. And the Free Agent rankings are not
> based on X, Z or slot.


Exactly. And that's a problem with them. And its a problem with the PFF grades. There is no accounting for "degree of difficulty." Slot WRs are like middle relievers in baseball. Middle relievers are middle relievers because they aren't good enough to start and they aren't good enough to close. Slot WRs wind up as slot WRs because of flaws (could be lack of size, strength, speed, etc). Slot WRs often work against LBs or safeties. They are often working against zone coverage. If they are matched up with corners, they are typically nickel corners, guys who aren't good enough to start (I said typically, not in all cases). Slot WRs get more free releases off the line than X or Z WRs, so they don't have to deal with press coverage as often. It is easier to be a slot WR than it is an X or a Z.

Fair enough, but I am not suggesting that he is Larry Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson. He is a slot WR. PFF's comment that "he operates over the middle in a way only Wes Welker can arguably do better" highlights what his role is. They also commented that "unlike Welker, Amendola does have legitimately impressive hands, especially on those inside routes that routinely come at him at speed. He had just a single drop last year from 75 targets when he lined up in the slot."

eesti - I agree 100% that Welker was on the upswing when he went to the Pats. My point was that if you simply looked at his statistics when he was a Dolphin, you would not have known that he was going to become a great player. Statistics alone did not indicate his overall value or ability. When I look at Amendola in 2012 I see a guy who reminds me a lot of Welker in 2006.

I don't think anyone would argue that Amendola is a very good slot receiver that has not tapped into his full potential. I also don't think you could argue that he is an injury risk.

If your job is on the line, are you going to take up a valuable roster spot for a player that may or may not be on the field after the 1st game?

NE may be able to risk that but I don't thing we have that luxury.

The other problem is that if you look at what Sherman/Philbin are trying to do is get 5 WR's with comparible abilities so they can all line up at any position.

Look at the GB receivers. They are all 6+ feet with sub 4.5 speed that all line up outside and in the slot, etc. Randall Cobb is the only WR under 6 ft but he is A-typical and sort of a wildcard that lines up in the backfield on occasion. They really don't have a slot receiver.

I would not be surprised to see us eliminate the "slot receiver" once we can afford to do so. That's not to say we won't have receivers lining up in the slot but we will have no designated slot guy.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

You can't just look at the stats. You gotta pull out the tapes and see when those catches were by Welker. They were in 'CRUCIAL' situations where we needed a first down.

Ask yourself. If he was so mediocre, why did the Patriots want him so bad?

Maybe they saw what I saw.

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said, stats don't tell the whole story.
> Maybe his average catch is 4 yards downfield. I
> would suggest that the brutal Rams offensive line
> plays a large part in that statistic. Bradford has
> to throw the ball almost immediately. Receivers
> can't run deep routes; there just isn't time for
> the route to develop. I don't love Amendola, so I
> really don't want to debate the subject; but if
> you watch him play you will have a higher view of
> him then if you simply look at his stats.

*****************************************

You just pretty much described Miami's offense of 2012.

Dolfanmark,

You are stubborn with your stats. Over the past year, I have respected your insight on west coast offense...and how tannehill was gonna do well...you yourself, preached last year how we did NOT need a single top receiver like Brandon marshall...west coast offense preaches multiple receivers....

Listen to northeast fin fan and myself. If you are not a believer in amendola,,,then you probably never really watched him play a football game.. He is a game changer...someone the other teams have to game plan against...
If we were to sign Wallace and amendola...all i can say is watch out!!!!

I am not gonna back down on this one...amendola is the steal of this free agent list ...

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dolfanmark,
>
> You are stubborn with your stats. Over the past
> year, I have respected your insight on west coast
> offense...and how tannehill was gonna do
> well...you yourself, preached last year how we did
> NOT need a single top receiver like Brandon
> marshall...west coast offense preaches multiple
> receivers....
>
> Listen to northeast fin fan and myself. If you are
> not a believer in amendola,,,then you probably
> never really watched him play a football game.. He
> is a game changer...someone the other teams have
> to game plan against...
> If we were to sign Wallace and amendola...all i
> can say is watch out!!!!
>
> I am not gonna back down on this one...amendola is
> the steal of this free agent list ...


The stats just back up and re-enforce what I can see. I have seen Amendola play plenty. Well, not plenty, because he's rarely healthy enough to play. But, he is nothing special. No speed. No size. If the Rams actually had any decent options out wide, he'd be an afterthought. If you are forced to keep feeding the ball to a guy who averages 8 yards per catch, your offense is in trouble.

LOL, Amendola is a game changer! One of the funnier things i've heard in a while.

I'm sure DB's all over the league are shaking in their cleats that he will switch to their division. DC's are keeping a close eye so they can start game planning around him.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure DB's all over the league are shaking in
> their cleats that he will switch to their
> division. DC's are keeping a close eye so they can
> start game planning around him.


Amendola is the poster boy for the difference between fantasy football impact and impact on a good football team in real life and how the two aren't always equal.

Amendola puts up good Fantasy stats the last few years when he's healthy because he is literally the ONLY receiving option on a really bad team.

Because he goes 12 for 100 twice a month for the 2.5 months he's healthy enough to play, and gets you 22 points, people think he is a stud.

He isn't.

Once again, you all rely on your STATS!!

West coast offense consists of many 8 yard passes....amendola is a good fit for the dolphins...however since we signed Brian Hartline ...I woulD prefer Wallace...

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> steviec13 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dolfanmark,
> >
> > You are stubborn with your stats. Over the past
> > year, I have respected your insight on west
> coast
> > offense...and how tannehill was gonna do
> > well...you yourself, preached last year how we
> did
> > NOT need a single top receiver like Brandon
> > marshall...west coast offense preaches multiple
> > receivers....
> >
> > Listen to northeast fin fan and myself. If you
> are
> > not a believer in amendola,,,then you probably
> > never really watched him play a football game..
> He
> > is a game changer...someone the other teams
> have
> > to game plan against...
> > If we were to sign Wallace and amendola...all i
> > can say is watch out!!!!
> >
> > I am not gonna back down on this one...amendola
> is
> > the steal of this free agent list ...
>
>
> The stats just back up and re-enforce what I can
> see. I have seen Amendola play plenty. Well, not
> plenty, because he's rarely healthy enough to
> play. But, he is nothing special. No speed. No
> size. If the Rams actually had any decent options
> out wide, he'd be an afterthought. If you are
> forced to keep feeding the ball to a guy who
> averages 8 yards per catch, your offense is in
> trouble.


DolfanMark,

Now that Amendola has signed his 5 year, 31 million contract with the patriots, do you still see amendola as a 8 yard per catch receiver that is injury prone?
Something tells me that amendola is gonna be a thorn in the dolphins side for many years to come!
I am happy with Hartline and Wallace...but I think that amendola is a special player...and unfortunately for us...we are gonna feel it twice a season....

Amendola to the patriots SUCKS for us!

much rather face him than welker, that's for sure

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I am happy he signed. Missed 20 games in 2 years. Based on that contract, they are depending on him. Big mistake.

Like I always say....you get in BIG trouble when you expect a player to be something he has never been. HEALHTY!

That means week 3 they are scanning the waiver wire.

AND he signed for the same price as Hartline. LOLOLOL

Patriots have jumped the shark.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Eesti,

Keep in mind belichek and the Patriots have a pretty good track record on signing free agents...

Amend olas injuries were not major....

Hartline had similar problems last year...they just happened to be before the season started (we were lucky)

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eesti,
>
> Keep in mind belichek and the Patriots have a
> pretty good track record on signing free
> agents...
>
> Amend olas injuries were not major....
>
> Hartline had similar problems last year...they
> just happened to be before the season started (we
> were lucky)

Not a major injury? he dislocated his clavicle and it was called "life threatening". Doctors could not even find anyone around the league that this had EVER happened to! He was out for 3 weeks with this one, came back for 3 games and then missed two more.

Amendola broke his arm on opening day in 2011 and missed the rest of the season....yeah nothing major.

That is pretty similar to Hartline who has missed 4 games in 4 years.

He could stay healthy all year and catch 100 passes....but the odds are against it.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> DolfanMark,
>
> Now that Amendola has signed his 5 year, 31
> million contract with the patriots, do you still
> see amendola as a 8 yard per catch receiver that
> is injury prone?


How does joining the Pats change the facts that he's averaged 8+ yards per catch and had a history of injuries over his career?




> Something tells me that amendola is gonna be a
> thorn in the dolphins side for many years to
> come!
> I am happy with Hartline and Wallace...but I think
> that amendola is a special player...and
> unfortunately for us...we are gonna feel it twice
> a season....
>
> Amendola to the patriots SUCKS for us!


He'll do fine there. Anyone taking the slot WR position in that offense will do fine. But he won't put up Welker numbers and there's a good chance he won't be healthy enough to play against us on any give week. He's missed 22 of 64 games in his career.

The Pats offered him more per season than they offered Welker. That tells me they looked beyond his yards per reception to determine his value. Injury is still a concern; but there is a difference between having freak injuries and having a trouble spot (i.e. bad knees or a bad back).