Awesome! Nothing better than drafting a guy and watching him turn into a player.

If I know Ireland the deal will be beneficial to Miami in some way. We will have an opt out, lower guaranteed money/signing bonus or incentive laden deal...or all of the above.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

assuming it really is $6mm (or more) per year, doesn't that seem like a lot of $$ for a #2 WR?
I gotta think that once the signing bonus is factored in the cap hit will be smaller

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Not when that guy is a 1k receiver. Not many number 2 WR's that are capable of 1k. Let's see what the deal is before we speculate too much.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

1/4 of that yardage came in 1 game, and 80 yards of it came when the defender left him uncovered

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1/4 of that yardage came in 1 game, and 80 yards
> of it came when the defender left him uncovered


45% came in 3 games. I was willing to go w/ out Starks even more so w/ out Hartline. I sure as hell hope we are not shelling out 6 mil per. He makes a lot about his relation ship w/ Tanny but Bess has a relationship w/ Tanny too.I think his stats can be replaced at a lower cost.

If we do sign him I don't want Jennings I would then draft the fastest receiver I could get my hands on in rnd 1.

If we are very, very lucky we can replace him at a lower cost. It's a huge gamble I would not want to take. it's either a rookie or a FA. Who is more likely to put in a good season with RT? Hartline or one of those?

Who's to say Marino would have been as successfull had we gotten rid of Mark Duper the same year we brought in Clayton?

I don't care about the bulk yardage game. Fact is he did it. Nobody gave it to him and he was playing against a pretty good secondary with Patrick Peterson.

No WR not named CJ gets huge yardage every week and they all need huge games to get to 1k.

Who do you think was drawing double coverage last year? It wasn't Fasano or Bess.

I don't care about a few bucks on the cap at this point. I want an offense. Ireland (and Dawn Aponte) know how to manage the cap and are not as stupid as some would have you believe. We will be be glad we resigned Hartline....if we indeed do resign him. That's my prediction.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Good i hope its true......He can flourish under tannehill......not many 2nd string receivers get 1000 yards a year...

Not easily replaceble.

Now wait until we draft our number one deep threat WR in the first round.

If we don't get something done quickly, then New England will low ball Welker (Welker made 9.5 millon last year, and Brady intentionally restructered his contract for Welker). Welker will walk if the deal is less than 8 million and and then New England will offer Hartline 6 million, and we Dolphins fans will get to see him catching passes from Tom Brady twice a year for the next 4-5 years.

That's my take, and if Ireland is that stupid to let history repeat itself twice, then HE needs to go next.

It all boils down to how the contract is structured.

it could average 20 mill a year, but if its 6 years, heavily back loaded, with a reasonable guaranteed amount we'd have him for 4 years at a cost effective rate before we'd have to cut him or restructure.

Just for an example...Joe flacco's new mega deal averages $20mill a year but only counts for $7 mill in this years cap.

Best to wait until the deal is announced and the structure is known before getting worked up about it.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ireland (and Dawn
> Aponte) know how to manage the cap and are not as
> stupid as some would have you believe.

Disagree. Truly being able to manage the cap involves being proactice. We could've resigned him for much less had we acted sooner. Now we are in a tough situtation and have to overpay to keep him, or else risk getting shutout in FA and losing our top guy last year. We should've tried to extend him earlier when his value was lower. Same kind of thing goes for guys like Solia, who we let play out on a franchise tag for a season and then gave him a lucrative contract the next year.
We should extent R Jones or the same thing will happen next year.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I agree with berkeley....

The only reason we are under the cap is that we had like 9 starters not signed. If all of them avg 4 million a year we are not that far under the cap after all...

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ireland (and Dawn
> > Aponte) know how to manage the cap and are not
> as
> > stupid as some would have you believe.
>
> Disagree. Truly being able to manage the cap
> involves being proactice. We could've resigned him
> for much less had we acted sooner. Now we are in a
> tough situtation and have to overpay to keep him,
> or else risk getting shutout in FA and losing our
> top guy last year. We should've tried to extend
> him earlier when his value was lower. Same kind of
> thing goes for guys like Solia, who we let play
> out on a franchise tag for a season and then gave
> him a lucrative contract the next year.
> We should extent R Jones or the same thing will
> happen next year.


I can't blame Ireland for wanting Hartline to prove himself and he did offer a contract to Hartline last year and he turned it down. You can't force him to sign it.

That has nothing to do with managing the cap. there was no telling that Hartline would even play this year after all the injury problems in the offseason.

I agree on Jones but Soliai was the same situation as Hartline. he needed to prove himself. he struggled early in his career to even get on the field and he also showed up out of shape.

We should extend Jones before this season starts if possible but it is not expensive to franshise him next year.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ireland (and Dawn
> > Aponte) know how to manage the cap and are not
> as
> > stupid as some would have you believe.
>
> Disagree. Truly being able to manage the cap
> involves being proactice. We could've resigned him
> for much less had we acted sooner. Now we are in a
> tough situtation and have to overpay to keep him,
> or else risk getting shutout in FA and losing our
> top guy last year. We should've tried to extend
> him earlier when his value was lower.

We did offer Hartline an extension earlier. He didn't want to sign on the cheap.

Can't blame him for not wanting to take less then what he felt he was worth but its somehow Ireland's fault for not getting him locked up on a cheaper deal???




> Same kind of
> thing goes for guys like Solia, who we let play
> out on a franchise tag for a season and then gave
> him a lucrative contract the next year.
> We should extent R Jones or the same thing will
> happen next year.


Soliai went from making $12 mill under the franchise tag, a tag we HAD to use on him because of the pending lockout and the old CBA which limited the raise we could give him to an absurdly small contract offer, to making $6 mill a year for two years.

How is that not getting him for value?

Its a freaking steal. He signed the guy for 50% of what he paid him the year before when he was in his pime and coming off his breakout season.

How is that a bad move?


Berk, players get leverage when they get closer to free agency. Its the nature of negotiation.

If a guy is more concerned with being here then getting top dollar you can sign him for less than market value.

If he's ONLY concerned about getting paid, then you pay him or you let him walk. There is no middle ground and you can't FORCE him to sign here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2013 08:39AM by THE Truth.

or dance!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

what was the earlier offer made to hartline? if it was incredibly low ball then of course he would not sign it. Signing your own players you like is a 2 way street---they take less than they think they could get on the open market in exchange for getting a bit more than they are currently worth---conversely the team pays a bit more now but much less than if they had waited for him to hit the market. If you know your players and think they will continue to improve you take the calculated risk.

As for Solia, he ate up a ton of cap space that year, then signed for 2 more years. A smart move is to just extend him for a 3 year deal and spread that money around. Even smarter is to extend him when he is on the upswing of his career, but still not a sure thing, instead of waiting till he is at his peak value and about to hit the open market.
Smart GMs do this stuff all the time. Ireland does not. Draw your own conclusions.

Finally, as to the point some raise that Ireland has done such a good job in accumalating picks and cap space, that's really true only to a point. As dolphin pointed out, we have the cap space bc we have so many of our own players unsigned. I have a team with no players but $160mm in cap space---yay me. And as for the picks, if you keep trading first rounders for seconds (vonte), and seconds for 3ds (marshall), then yes you will have a ton of picks the following year. Not necessarily the best use of resources, however.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what was the earlier offer made to hartline? if it
> was incredibly low ball then of course he would
> not sign it.

You know who labeled it "low ball"....HARTLINE.

We have no idea what he was offered or how many different offers were made so you are assuming it was an "incredibly" low offer because it supports your narrative.

Here's what's been tossed around in the press since the fall:

Hartline wants 6-7 mill a year.

Hartline turns down "lowball" offer.

Dolphins and Hartline unable to agree on deal.

Hartline close to 6-6.5 per year deal.


read between the lines Berk.

Hartline wanted 6-7. Hartline is getting what he wants because he has leverage. Leverage created by the threat of the open market and his turning down the bargain deal you wanted us to sign him to.




> Signing your own players you like is
> a 2 way street---they take less than they think
> they could get on the open market in exchange for
> getting a bit more than they are currently
> worth---conversely the team pays a bit more now
> but much less than if they had waited for him to
> hit the market. If you know your players and think
> they will continue to improve you take the
> calculated risk.


Not in every scenario.

More often than not in the NFL its ONLY about the money.

if you wanted your scenario to play out you don't wait until his FA year has started to get a deal done. Of course, with Hartline having mediocre numbers prior to this season and his NEARLY dying in the off-season and missing all of OTA's and most of camp, there wasn't much of a chance to get a deal done was there?


>
> As for Solia, he ate up a ton of cap space that
> year, then signed for 2 more years. A smart move
> is to just extend him for a 3 year deal and spread
> that money around. Even smarter is to extend him
> when he is on the upswing of his career, but still
> not a sure thing, instead of waiting till he is at
> his peak value and about to hit the open market.
> Smart GMs do this stuff all the time. Ireland does
> not. Draw your own conclusions.



There is plenty to criticize Ireland for, but this isn't one if them. You are DEAD wrong on the Soliai thing.

Soliai was coming off his rookie deal at the same time the old CBA was expiring and and the lockout was looming.

The old CBA limited the amount of money we could offer him as an extenwion to a 35% increase over his last year and incremental increases over the life of the extension. It kept us from offering a deal wroth more than 3-4 mill per year. He wanted double that. We probably could have gotten a deal done at around $5-6 per but WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO BY THE CBA.

Two options at that point, since Soliai turned down the max deal we could legally offer....One, let him walk. Two, Franchise him and pay him an absurdly high amount ($12+).

We tagged him figuring we could work out a long term deal in camp.

Funny thing is, now that he was guaranteed $12+ for one year he wanted more than 5-6mill year for a long term deal.

Ireland refused to come of the $5-6 number...let him hit FA at the end of the year and signed him for 2 years/$12m after he came to the realization his demands were to high when nobody offered him Wilfork money.




>
> Finally, as to the point some raise that Ireland
> has done such a good job in accumalating picks and
> cap space, that's really true only to a point. As
> dolphin pointed out, we have the cap space bc we
> have so many of our own players unsigned. I have a
> team with no players but $160mm in cap space---yay
> me. And as for the picks, if you keep trading
> first rounders for seconds (vonte), and seconds
> for 3ds (marshall), then yes you will have a ton
> of picks the following year. Not necessarily the
> best use of resources, however.


Whatever...

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what was the earlier offer made to hartline? if
> it
> > was incredibly low ball then of course he would
> > not sign it.
>
> You know who labeled it "low ball"....HARTLINE.
>
> We have no idea what he was offered or how many
> different offers were made so you are assuming it
> was an "incredibly" low offer because it supports
> your narrative.
>
> Here's what's been tossed around in the press
> since the fall:
>
> Hartline wants 6-7 mill a year.
>
> Hartline turns down "lowball" offer.
>
> Dolphins and Hartline unable to agree on deal.
>
> Hartline close to 6-6.5 per year deal.
>
>
> read between the lines Berk.
>
> Hartline wanted 6-7. Hartline is getting what he
> wants because he has leverage. Leverage created
> by the threat of the open market and his turning
> down the bargain deal you wanted us to sign him
> to.
>
>
++++ you don't know what the offer was either. past history makes me think the offer was likely a lowball and not a "fair" offer but we will never know.
>
> > Signing your own players you like is
> > a 2 way street---they take less than they think
> > they could get on the open market in exchange
> for
> > getting a bit more than they are currently
> > worth---conversely the team pays a bit more now
> > but much less than if they had waited for him
> to
> > hit the market. If you know your players and
> think
> > they will continue to improve you take the
> > calculated risk.
>
>
> Not in every scenario.
>
> More often than not in the NFL its ONLY about the
> money.
>
> if you wanted your scenario to play out you don't
> wait until his FA year has started to get a deal
> done. Of course, with Hartline having mediocre
> numbers prior to this season and his NEARLY dying
> in the off-season and missing all of OTA's and
> most of camp, there wasn't much of a chance to get
> a deal done was there?
>

++++ they could have signed him earlier in the year when healthy (before mid season when he was leading the league) or prior to this year when I am sure he'd have taken a contract in the 3-4mm range,


> >
> > As for Solia, he ate up a ton of cap space that
> > year, then signed for 2 more years. A smart
> move
> > is to just extend him for a 3 year deal and
> spread
> > that money around. Even smarter is to extend
> him
> > when he is on the upswing of his career, but
> still
> > not a sure thing, instead of waiting till he is
> at
> > his peak value and about to hit the open market.
>
> > Smart GMs do this stuff all the time. Ireland
> does
> > not. Draw your own conclusions.
>
>
>
> There is plenty to criticize Ireland for, but this
> isn't one if them. You are DEAD wrong on the
> Soliai thing.
>
> Soliai was coming off his rookie deal at the same
> time the old CBA was expiring and and the lockout
> was looming.
>
> The old CBA limited the amount of money we could
> offer him as an extenwion to a 35% increase over
> his last year and incremental increases over the
> life of the extension. It kept us from offering
> a deal wroth more than 3-4 mill per year. He
> wanted double that. We probably could have
> gotten a deal done at around $5-6 per but WE
> WEREN'T ALLOWED TO BY THE CBA.
>
> Two options at that point, since Soliai turned
> down the max deal we could legally offer....One,
> let him walk. Two, Franchise him and pay him an
> absurdly high amount ($12+).
>
> We tagged him figuring we could work out a long
> term deal in camp.
>
> Funny thing is, now that he was guaranteed $12+
> for one year he wanted more than 5-6mill year for
> a long term deal.
>
> Ireland refused to come of the $5-6 number...let
> him hit FA at the end of the year and signed him
> for 2 years/$12m after he came to the realization
> his demands were to high when nobody offered him
> Wilfork money.
>

+++ there are work arounds. I guess we were the only team with a FA during the expiring CBA. How many other teams franchised a player and let him play thru the tag.
>
>
> >
> > Finally, as to the point some raise that
> Ireland
> > has done such a good job in accumalating picks
> and
> > cap space, that's really true only to a point.
> As
> > dolphin pointed out, we have the cap space bc
> we
> > have so many of our own players unsigned. I have
> a
> > team with no players but $160mm in cap
> space---yay
> > me. And as for the picks, if you keep trading
> > first rounders for seconds (vonte), and seconds
> > for 3ds (marshall), then yes you will have a
> ton
> > of picks the following year. Not necessarily
> the
> > best use of resources, however.
>
>
> Whatever...


+++ that's it?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:

> >
> > Here's what's been tossed around in the press
> > since the fall:
> >
> > Hartline wants 6-7 mill a year.
> >
> > Hartline turns down "lowball" offer.
> >
> > Dolphins and Hartline unable to agree on deal.
> >
> > Hartline close to 6-6.5 per year deal.
> >
> >
> > read between the lines Berk.
> >
> > Hartline wanted 6-7. Hartline is getting what
> he
> > wants because he has leverage. Leverage
> created
> > by the threat of the open market and his
> turning
> > down the bargain deal you wanted us to sign him
> > to.
> >
> >
> ++++ you don't know what the offer was either.
> past history makes me think the offer was likely a
> lowball and not a "fair" offer but we will never
> know.


What past history is that? Please be as specific as possible...





> >
> > > Signing your own players you like is
> > > a 2 way street---they take less than they
> think
> > > they could get on the open market in exchange
> > for
> > > getting a bit more than they are currently
> > > worth---conversely the team pays a bit more
> now
> > > but much less than if they had waited for him
> > to
> > > hit the market. If you know your players and
> > think
> > > they will continue to improve you take the
> > > calculated risk.
> >
> >
> > Not in every scenario.
> >
> > More often than not in the NFL its ONLY about
> the
> > money.
> >
> > if you wanted your scenario to play out you
> don't
> > wait until his FA year has started to get a
> deal
> > done. Of course, with Hartline having
> mediocre
> > numbers prior to this season and his NEARLY
> dying
> > in the off-season and missing all of OTA's and
> > most of camp, there wasn't much of a chance to
> get
> > a deal done was there?



> >
>
> ++++ they could have signed him earlier in the
> year when healthy (before mid season when he was
> leading the league) or prior to this year when I
> am sure he'd have taken a contract in the 3-4mm
> range,



You are smoking crack my friend.

First of all...he missed almost the entire off-season with malady or another so the new staff didn't get to evaluate him including getting sick and nearly dying. Then he got injured after the first day of camp and missed most of the pre-season.

Who in their right mind is giving 4 mill to a guy who hasn't done squat yet and is trying to comeback from a near death experience AND trying to impress the new staff enough to make them want him?

You aren't being realistic. Once the season started Ireland offered him an extension, probably in that 3-4 mill range (Bess money) and as was reported, they turned it DOWN.




>
>
> > >
> > > As for Solia, he ate up a ton of cap space
> that
> > > year, then signed for 2 more years. A smart
> > move
> > > is to just extend him for a 3 year deal and
> > spread
> > > that money around. Even smarter is to extend
> > him
> > > when he is on the upswing of his career, but
> > still
> > > not a sure thing, instead of waiting till he
> is
> > at
> > > his peak value and about to hit the open
> market.
> >
> > > Smart GMs do this stuff all the time. Ireland
> > does
> > > not. Draw your own conclusions.



My conclusion on this subject is that Bob has hacked your account so I'll respond in kind:


WE COULDN'T EXTEND SOLIAI!!! THE CBA WOULDN'T ALLOW IT!!!

No GM in the league could have done it. So your premise that we acted wrongly by not extending him and tagging him is absurd.

You have two choices...Either you let him walk because he wouldn't take a $3mill a year extension...or you tag him to keep the asset.

If you think Ireland should have let him walk...ok...you can make that argument.

But if you are sticking to the "he should have extended him sooner and since he didn't he's an idiot" position then you are ignoring reality and living in a fantasy land.






> >
> >
> >
> > There is plenty to criticize Ireland for, but
> this
> > isn't one if them. You are DEAD wrong on the
> > Soliai thing.
> >
> > Soliai was coming off his rookie deal at the
> same
> > time the old CBA was expiring and and the
> lockout
> > was looming.
> >
> > The old CBA limited the amount of money we
> could
> > offer him as an extenwion to a 35% increase
> over
> > his last year and incremental increases over
> the
> > life of the extension. It kept us from
> offering
> > a deal wroth more than 3-4 mill per year. He
> > wanted double that. We probably could have
> > gotten a deal done at around $5-6 per but WE
> > WEREN'T ALLOWED TO BY THE CBA.
> >
> > Two options at that point, since Soliai turned
> > down the max deal we could legally
> offer....One,
> > let him walk. Two, Franchise him and pay him
> an
> > absurdly high amount ($12+).
> >
> > We tagged him figuring we could work out a long
> > term deal in camp.
> >
> > Funny thing is, now that he was guaranteed $12+
> > for one year he wanted more than 5-6mill year
> for
> > a long term deal.
> >
> > Ireland refused to come of the $5-6
> number...let
> > him hit FA at the end of the year and signed
> him
> > for 2 years/$12m after he came to the
> realization
> > his demands were to high when nobody offered
> him
> > Wilfork money.
> >
>
> +++ there are work arounds. I guess we were the
> only team with a FA during the expiring CBA. How
> many other teams franchised a player and let him
> play thru the tag.



No there weren't any work around. The CBA had been voided. That kicked in certain restrictions. It sucked, but those were the rules at the time.

One team in the same position as us was SD with Vincent Jackson. They tagged him and couldn't agree to an extension before the season started so he played out the tag and hit FA. Unlike Soliai he got an fat deal from another team.


You are dead wrong on this one Berk.




> >
> >
> > >
> > > Finally, as to the point some raise that
> > Ireland
> > > has done such a good job in accumalating
> picks
> > and
> > > cap space, that's really true only to a
> point.
> > As
> > > dolphin pointed out, we have the cap space bc
> > we
> > > have so many of our own players unsigned. I
> have
> > a
> > > team with no players but $160mm in cap
> > space---yay
> > > me. And as for the picks, if you keep trading
> > > first rounders for seconds (vonte), and
> seconds
> > > for 3ds (marshall), then yes you will have a
> > ton
> > > of picks the following year. Not necessarily
> > the
> > > best use of resources, however.
> >
> >
> > Whatever...
>
>
> +++ that's it?


Yeah.

That's it.

Reached the point it wasn't worth arguing since you were so far out in Left Field.

Sorry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2013 12:40PM by THE Truth.

Assuming this deal gets done, we have to wait and see what the guaranteed money is for. It could be 3 years and $18M, but only 9 or 12 guaranteed.

I think it is hard to say Ireland did a good job acquiring picks, when he gave up 2 second rd picks for 2 thirds and a 1st so he could have another second... Not exactly the definition of good job managing or acquiring picks...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Assuming this deal gets done, we have to wait and
> see what the guaranteed money is for. It could be
> 3 years and $18M, but only 9 or 12 guaranteed.


That is exactly what was going to be my question. How much of it is guaranteed?

so far the only "news" on this has been the initial report of an imminent signing at 6-6.5mm. I seriously doubt that that this is what he is getting. For some reason (probably b/c both are white) people have been pointing to Jordy Nelson's contract as a benchmark for Hartline. In 2011 Nelson signed a deal for 4 years 14mm, with 5mm guaranteed. I'm not so good at math but that's like 3.5mm per year. Nelson had just come off a year where he had 1263 yards, 18.3 average, and scored 14 (!!) TDs. How does Hartline, with 6 career TDs and just 1 in each of the last 3 years, merit 6mm a season? UNless the deal is for much less than was reported all I can say is wow, what a horrible deal for us.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so far the only "news" on this has been the
> initial report of an imminent signing at 6-6.5mm.
> I seriously doubt that that this is what he is
> getting. For some reason (probably b/c both are
> white) people have been pointing to Jordy Nelson's
> contract as a benchmark for Hartline. In 2011
> Nelson signed a deal for 4 years 14mm, with 5mm
> guaranteed. I'm not so good at math but that's
> like 3.5mm per year. Nelson had just come off a
> year where he had 1263 yards, 18.3 average, and
> scored 14 (!!) TDs. How does Hartline, with 6
> career TDs and just 1 in each of the last 3 years,
> merit 6mm a season? UNless the deal is for much
> less than was reported all I can say is wow, what
> a horrible deal for us.


So you aren't in favor of bringing Hartline back, unless of course he pays us to play here, and certainly not at the current market vale for a 26 year old WR coming of his first 1k yard season.

Ok

damn truth, you are really testy today. I am in favor of bringing hartline back, but not over paying for him by a few million per year.
what is so complicated about that? are you in favor of paying hartline 30%+ more than jordy nelson? is that "current market value"? how do you know? bc Ireland paid it??
I seriously doubt if we let him hit the market he'd get 6mm per year from anyone. if this story is true Ireland overpaid in a panic move since it is entirely possible we won't get either jennings or wallace.
at this point I can only hope that the 6mm/y reports are not accurate. If the true deal is more like 4mm per year, I am happy with the move.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> damn truth, you are really testy today. I am in
> favor of bringing hartline back, but not over
> paying for him by a few million per year.
> what is so complicated about that? are you in
> favor of paying hartline 30%+ more than jordy
> nelson? is that "current market value"? how do you
> know? bc Ireland paid it??
> I seriously doubt if we let him hit the market
> he'd get 6mm per year from anyone. if this story
> is true Ireland overpaid in a panic move since it
> is entirely possible we won't get either jennings
> or wallace.
> at this point I can only hope that the 6mm/y
> reports are not accurate. If the true deal is more
> like 4mm per year, I am happy with the move.

Dwayne Bowe Just got $11m+ per year for 5 years and he was widely regarded as the THIRD best WR that could be on the market.

He's now the 3rd or 4th highest paid WR in the league.

Revenues go up....Salaries go up, and it happens on a year to year basis.

The deal Jordy Nelson signed prior to this CBA may have been the ceiling for hartline type WR's in 2011 under the old CBA. But its merely a jump off point for negotiations today.

Bowe is a pretty good, not great WR. Hartline is a step below him, but he's not half the player Bowe is. He's going to get $5-6.5 mill from someone. If you don't want to pay that...that's ok. That's not the problem. The problem is when you criticize Ireland for not being able to sign him to what YOU think is reasonable.

The issue isn't that Ireland wouldn't like to sign him for that amount...or that he's too dumb to sign him for that amount...its that Hartline isn't going to sign for $3-4 mill unless you hold a gun to his head.

That means, if you want him on the cheap like Soliai, you let him hit free agency and if there is no deal for him out there in that 5-6 range them you get him cheaper. If there is...you lose him.

I like the guy. I think he's a player on the rise who will get better with a good QB and a #1 WR opposite him. He has the QB. Now we need to get him that #1 WR.

I'd pay him 6mill a year if I had too But that's about as high as I'd go.

if you don't want him for that much...that's fine. You are entitled to like whomever you like and have your opinion on how to build the team.

But lets keep things real. If Hartline doesn't want to take your contract its not Ireland's fault.

Too much for his production. $4M would have been better

maybe having a big #1 or two threat will open up his game like a Jordie nelson

Truth, who knows what the market for hartline would be. he's far from a star in this league, doesn't score TDs and had just 1 1k season (which isn't really such a big deal in today's league). Anyone clamoring to pay him 6mm a season? I highly doubt it, but we will never know since Ireland panicked and overpaid.
As for Jordy Nelson, the only thing that is relevant is the salary cap. Not revenues, not nothing. The salary cap has stayed flat since when neslon signed.
Find me anyone, anywhere who thinks 6mm a year is a good deal for Hartline. But go on defending the deal if you like.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.