Just announced. He's a good player but not worth the franchise amount. The plan better be to sign him to a longer deal at a good cap # or this is a bonehead move.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

they will sign him long term. There are some other stud DL's out there worth looking at too

I think this offically marks the end of the Jake Long era in Miami

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

8.4m is not a ridiculous amount and not that much more than he will make in a long term deal. I think he will end up signing for 7mil a year with a 10 mil signing bonus. Langford got 6 mil and a 4 mil bonus and he never made the PB. Starks made it twice.

It just gives us more time to extend him. He has to be wanting that signing bonus and he won't get it until he signs a new deal. Otherwise he has to wait for the game checks at around 500k per week.

I'm sure both sides are motivated to get a new deal done. It is win/win.

Otherwise we get the opportunity to explore an option in the draft and are not on the hook long term for Starks if a rookie outplays him.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2013 06:39AM by eesti.

Starks deserves it. I seen him turn games around......all by himself...either with a sack for a loss or a game changing int.


Starks is our most consistent interior lineman.

And im glad he is staying with the phins.

I don't know that Starks thinks he "deserves it". He did not want to be tagged. He tweeted about it this week...

“I want to be a dolphin!!! Not just for one more year….” “I want to be here and finish here!”

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Funny, though. We went from spending a ton of $$ on our O-Line to spending a ton of $$ on our D-Line. Soliai, Starks, Wake... Nice lineup, but it would be nicer if we had more sacks!!

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> Just announced. He's a good player but not worth
> the franchise amount. The plan better be to sign
> him to a longer deal at a good cap # or this is a
> bonehead move.


Interesting that you think this way. $8M per year is what Paul Soliai is making this year. And he plays a ton fewer snaps than Starks because he comes off the field in most pass rushing situations. Starks is a much more well rounded player than Soliai, and has two Pro Bowls on his resume.

mark, I think Solia is overpaid---especially so the year we actually let him play out the franchise tag, which is what I worry we will do with Starks

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> Just announced. He's a good player but not worth
> the franchise amount. The plan better be to sign
> him to a longer deal at a good cap # or this is a
> bonehead move.

***********************************************

Agreed! A $6M hit would have been ok.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> mark, I think Solia is overpaid---especially so
> the year we actually let him play out the
> franchise tag, which is what I worry we will do
> with Starks

The Soliai situation in 2011 was a very unusual circumstance, having to do with him being a restricted free agent and the whole CBA. We were limited on what we were allowed to offer him as a raise. So, literally, the only way to keep him was to franchise tag him.

Starks could definitely get $7-8M on the open market. He is a very, very good player. Two Pro Bowls in the last 3 years, and he deserved it the year he didn't get selected. And still only 29. This is not a bad move by Miami at all.

It also opens the door to the possibility of trading Odrick. And the possibility of cutting Soliai to save money, or getting Soliai to agree to a longer term deal to lower his cap number.

I don't like the idea of trading odrick at cents on the dollar. We really are going to trade another #1 pick for a 2, or, much more likely on odrick's case, a 3 or 4? Flipping first rounders and turning them into lower picks is not a forumla for success.
Odrick played ina 4 man front in PSU so I don't undertand why people think he can't play in our scheme.
as for solia, I can't see cutting him at all. if our DL is a strength why create a huge hole?

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Starks deserved the money the question was were we going to pay it, we did. I would trade Odrick if he has 'it' he has not showed it yet.

I would think more about releasing players...

Dimitri Patterson: only way he stay is if he REALLY impresses and earns a starting spot. Otherwise he is gone and would save 4.6 mil? Money may be better spend on Chris Houston or a legit starter.

Carpenter would save 2.7 mil

Davone Bess would save 2.6 mil

Richie Incognito would save 4.3 mil

That's 14.2 mil right there.

I would rather have Levitre at 6 mil than Incog at 4.3.

We can get a good kicker for under 1 mil.

If we sign Wallace, Hartline and draft another 1 or 2, Bess in expendable.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I agre with eesti

Bess is expendable for a quick slot WR

I love Richie but he Patterson & Carpenter need to restructure

Especially since he can't play outside effectively in this offense. That makes him a one trick pony IMO. Im sure with his ridiculous run after catch ability, Patterson could play the slot as a rookie...even if he couldn't learn all three positions as Philbin prefers.

We still should resign Hartline or...

A. We will be shopping for a lesser FA (likely) for similar money
B. Will settle for a lesser WR for lesser money and take a side step
C. will have to draft TWO WR's with the ability to start right away. (good luck)

It is just easier to resign him instead of haggle over a milliojn here or there. Otherwise we gamble that the big FA and high draft choice will pay instant dividends.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> I don't like the idea of trading odrick at cents
> on the dollar. We really are going to trade
> another #1 pick for a 2, or, much more likely on
> odrick's case, a 3 or 4? Flipping first rounders
> and turning them into lower picks is not a forumla
> for success.
> Odrick played ina 4 man front in PSU so I don't
> undertand why people think he can't play in our
> scheme.
> as for solia, I can't see cutting him at all. if
> our DL is a strength why create a huge hole?

Odrick doesn't necessarily fit this scheme. There is no point in comparing playing in a 4-man front in college to playing in one in the NFL. Odrick is not enough of a pass rusher to be a good 4-3 DE. Or, I should say, he hasn't shown that yet. PFF graded Odrick as the 60th best pass rusher among 62 4-3 DE. In terms of pass rush productivity per snap, he ranked 53rd.

If Odrick is going to play a major role, it likely needs to be at DT. He may be stout enough against the run, but we haven't seen him do that at the NFL level. He is a better fit at DT in a 4-3 than Soliai is. Soliai is athletic for his size, and that makes him effective in any scheme. But, it's hard to justify $8M per year for a guy who comes off the field on pass rush plays in a 4-3. And with almost $20M tied up in Starks, Odrick, and Soliai to combine to play two positions? Cutting Soliai would free up over $6M in cap space that could go toward a pass rusher for DE.

We'll have to wait and see what happens. But, it is hard to justify a line with Soliai and Starks at DT, and Odrick at DE. That's over $16M for two tackles, one of whom doesn't play on pass rush downs. And the DE is a first round pick investment, making $2M, and he's not a good pass rusher. It doesn't quite add up.

Soliai was regarded as one of the best DT's in the league back in 2010. He had 7 teams trying to sign him. Yes, he is worth more as a 3-4 NT but we had a great rushing defense for quite a while with those two. He also showed he is versatile and can be just as good in a 43. How long was our streak to holding runners to under 100 yards? 22 games I believe.

Why mess with something that isn't broken? Fix what is. You can't mess with things like that and still expect the same results. Fix the parts that don't work like CB. That's all we need.

Yes, you can justify keeping Soliai and Starks. We did it for years with Bowens and Gardner. We have enough young players with low salries to compensate. Something we didn't have with Bowens/Gardner.

I think you guys are selling Soliai short.

I do agree about Odrick. Trade him to a 3-4 team that needs a starter. 2 mil for a starter is pretty darn good. He has 2 years left on his contract. The 49ers have more draft picks than they need and two aging DE's.

We will still need to add a rotational DT unless we can resign McD.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I agree that cutting Solia is nuts. As everyone points out, we have a ton of cap space. The only way we'd ever cut Solia is if we were over the cap and desperate.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I think Solia is more important to the DL than Starks not sure where the trade this guy stuff is coming from.

actually mark mentioned cutting him, not trading him. If Ireland cuts Solia he needs to be fired on the spot

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> actually mark mentioned cutting him, not trading
> him. If Ireland cuts Solia he needs to be fired on
> the spot


We don't really have tons of cap space. Not when you consider the number of starters that are free agents. Soliai at $8M is a big cap hit for a guy who only plays about 70% of defensive snaps. And he'd save $6.3M if cut.

then why'd we sign him to that deal just 1 year ago?

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Soliai eats blockers to free up Starks to do what he does. 70% is nothing to sneeze at....most lineman on this team rotate anyway.

We have plenty of cap space to fill all the positions. We will free up even more in a few months when we size down the CB spot and kicker spot and maybe even a few others like Bess etc. We can also restructure some of the higher priced guys like Patterson/Marshall.

I am predicting right now that Brian McCann will be a solid player. Maybe even a starter this year. We will tender him at some level but it will be a cheap contract for a CB.

We don't have a 16-20 million dollar QB to pay like Baltimore and Denver. We will be fine.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

bess is not replaceble....We need to keep our few good players instead of thinking about replacing them for someone who might turn out a bust.


How are we supposed to build a team thinking about replacing our good players.

Everyone is replaceable. Ask Peyton Manning. Bess is not even in the same galaxy as Manning. He has worth as a possession receiver and may improve with two good receivers on the outside.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> then why'd we sign him to that deal just 1 year
> ago?

Did you notice that the deal was backloaded, with the guaranteed money up front? His salary was about $4M last year. And he only has about $1.5M left in guaranteed money 2013. That's why we could cut him now and get over $6M in cap relief. Backloaded deals with almost all the guaranteed money up front are done for the explicit reason of making a guy easy to cut.

ok but isn't that a stupid deal to sign him to in the first place. most backloaded deals are structured to get at least a few years from the player before the baloon payment. we went thru all that with solai just to cut him for cap reasons in his prime? again, I don't see this kind of stuff from any other team. Everyone faced the same expiring CBA and yet I am not aware of any other player who "had to" be franchised and then let him play on the tag #. And I don't know of other teams who sign a player to a "backloaded" deal and then need to cut him 1 year later. sheesh.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> ok but isn't that a stupid deal to sign him to in
> the first place. most backloaded deals are
> structured to get at least a few years from the
> player before the baloon payment. we went thru all
> that with solai just to cut him for cap reasons in
> his prime? again, I don't see this kind of stuff
> from any other team. Everyone faced the same
> expiring CBA and yet I am not aware of any other
> player who "had to" be franchised and then let him
> play on the tag #. And I don't know of other teams
> who sign a player to a "backloaded" deal and then
> need to cut him 1 year later. sheesh.


Teams do these backloaded deals all the time. Every team does it. It's how they manage the cap. It why when a guy signs as a free agent, the only thing that really matters is the pay out of the guaranteed money. Most free agents never get the entire value of their contract. Most get cut once the guaranteed money is gone or negligible. It's not like baseball, with guaranteed contracts.

The Soliai situation was somewhat unique. He was a restricted free agent. And there was the clause in the the CBA that restricted how much of a raise we were allowed to give him as part of the normal process. It had to do with the expiring CBA, so it was truly a unique circumstance. This was known as "30 percent rule." A restricted free agent was not allowed more than a 30% raise. The beat writers covered it extensively at the time. Our options were to offer him a very small percentage raise, and lose him to a free agent offer we couldn't match by rule of the CBA, or to franchise tag him. And once a guy signs a franchise tag, he's guaranteed that money. And in Soliai's unique case, his tag was a lot more than he could get on the market, so Soliai had no reason to negotiate a long term deal.

I know it pains people to admit this. But the reason Miami is in good cap shape and has 5 picks in the top 82 is because of how Jeff Ireland has set them up for this rebuilding.