I think the article was overkill. I can recall 2-3 plays where Hartline was wide open down the sideline and if RT throws a good pass he walks in for a TD. So he should have had about 2-3 more TDs and 100 or so more yards.
I totally agree he is not a 7mm per year guy. I'd happily pay him $4mm per though, and given our room and the need for continuity at the positon, I'd swallow hard and pay him $4.5 or just under $5mm if that's what it took. I don't think any team will give him more than $4.5 or $5mm

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

The article sold him a bit short.

PFF ranks Hartline as the 6th most efficient FA WR and he had way more snaps than everyone above him except Welker.

Frankly I value the FA WR's like this....(all around not just as a fit for Miami)

1 Bowe
2 Jennings
3 Wallace
4 Welker
5 Hartline

He is worth 4-4.5 mil a year IMO. Kevin Walter signed a 5/21.5 contract in 2010 at 29 years old. He is comparible to Hartline IMO.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I'll take Hartline for ANY competitive $$$ figure... The kid is 100% on the updraft and he's

(a) BRIGHT

(b) dedicated

(c) way underrated athletically

(d) certainly an excellent #2 at WORST!

(e) oh yea, and the kid PRODUCED big-time last season when he was called on.

(f) the only thing holding him back was Thill IMO

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the article was overkill. I can recall 2-3
> plays where Hartline was wide open down the
> sideline and if RT throws a good pass he walks in
> for a TD. So he should have had about 2-3 more TDs
> and 100 or so more yards.
> I totally agree he is not a 7mm per year guy. I'd
> happily pay him $4mm per though, and given our
> room and the need for continuity at the positon,
> I'd swallow hard and pay him $4.5 or just under
> $5mm if that's what it took. I don't think any
> team will give him more than $4.5 or $5mm

**********************************************

Agreed on what he should be paid. I also don't think another team is going to go above that once they really look at his track record, both in college and the pros. He had one good year, thus far, and coincidentally, it was during his contract year.

You are correct in that RT missed him on some of those bombs where Hartline could have scored, but.....Hartline did himself no favors when he also dropped a few that could have gone for scores.

Miami definitely needs continuity at the WR position. If Bess is traded, Hartline is the only one left from last year that had a lot of playing time; the rest have yet to prove themselves. That's where this off season comes in to play.

Sign that one big FA name and draft the best available WR with Miami's first 2nd round pick. If Miami waits until the 3rd round or further to get that WR, they are just repeating what they have been doing for the past 3-4 years, which is basically wasting their time.

Again, he is worth that $4M salary, but not so sure about anything higher than that.

Josh Morgan got $6M per year last season. Laurent Robinson got $7M per season. Robert Meachem got almost $7M per season.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think the article was overkill. I can recall
> 2-3
> > plays where Hartline was wide open down the
> > sideline and if RT throws a good pass he walks
> in
> > for a TD. So he should have had about 2-3 more
> TDs
> > and 100 or so more yards.
> > I totally agree he is not a 7mm per year guy.
> I'd
> > happily pay him $4mm per though, and given our
> > room and the need for continuity at the
> positon,
> > I'd swallow hard and pay him $4.5 or just under
> > $5mm if that's what it took. I don't think any
> > team will give him more than $4.5 or $5mm
>
> **********************************************
>
> Agreed on what he should be paid. I also don't
> think another team is going to go above that once
> they really look at his track record, both in
> college and the pros. He had one good year, thus
> far, and coincidentally, it was during his
> contract year.
>
> You are correct in that RT missed him on some of
> those bombs where Hartline could have scored,
> but.....Hartline did himself no favors when he
> also dropped a few that could have gone for
> scores.
>
> Miami definitely needs continuity at the WR
> position. If Bess is traded, Hartline is the only
> one left from last year that had a lot of playing
> time; the rest have yet to prove themselves.
> That's where this off season comes in to play.
>
> Sign that one big FA name and draft the best
> available WR with Miami's first 2nd round pick.
> If Miami waits until the 3rd round or further to
> get that WR, they are just repeating what they
> have been doing for the past 3-4 years, which is
> basically wasting their time.
>
> Again, he is worth that $4M salary, but not so
> sure about anything higher than that.

why do you think bess will be traded? I haven't heard anything like that. I think we'd be dumb to trade him---he is worth more to us than the 4th rounder we'd be lucky to get for him

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I don't think Bess will be traded. He hasn't been paid but the vet minimum if not just a little more perhaps - it's not like he's breaking the bank. The dude is just happy to have a job after being an undrafted free agent. If anything, he's been underpaid all this time for all the licks he takes.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think Bess will be traded. He hasn't been
> paid but the vet minimum if not just a little more
> perhaps - it's not like he's breaking the bank.
> The dude is just happy to have a job after being
> an undrafted free agent. If anything, he's been
> underpaid all this time for all the licks he
> takes.


He's getting $3M per season, which at the time he signed the deal, made him the second highest paid slot WR in the league.

The issue with Bess is his fit in the offense. They want interchangeable WRs, guys who can play all 3 WR positions effectively. Bess is only effective in the slot. He's a non-factor in the red zone, and he lacks big play ability. And he's a free agent at the end of 2013, and is likely to get more expensive. All of these need to be considerations when evaluating whether to trade him or not. Assuming they re-sign Hartline, add Jennings/Wallace, and draft a WR, would Bess at $4-5M a year fit on the 2014 roster? Probably not. And if a guy isn't likely to be here in 2014, trading him is not a bad idea.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 808phan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't think Bess will be traded. He hasn't
> been
> > paid but the vet minimum if not just a little
> more
> > perhaps - it's not like he's breaking the bank.
> > The dude is just happy to have a job after
> being
> > an undrafted free agent. If anything, he's been
> > underpaid all this time for all the licks he
> > takes.
>
>
> He's getting $3M per season, which at the time he
> signed the deal, made him the second highest paid
> slot WR in the league.
>
> The issue with Bess is his fit in the offense.
> They want interchangeable WRs, guys who can play
> all 3 WR positions effectively. Bess is only
> effective in the slot. He's a non-factor in the
> red zone, and he lacks big play ability. And he's
> a free agent at the end of 2013, and is likely to
> get more expensive. All of these need to be
> considerations when evaluating whether to trade
> him or not. Assuming they re-sign Hartline, add
> Jennings/Wallace, and draft a WR, would Bess at
> $4-5M a year fit on the 2014 roster? Probably not.
> And if a guy isn't likely to be here in 2014,
> trading him is not a bad idea.

Spot on.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 808phan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't think Bess will be traded. He hasn't
> been
> > paid but the vet minimum if not just a little
> more
> > perhaps - it's not like he's breaking the bank.
> > The dude is just happy to have a job after
> being
> > an undrafted free agent. If anything, he's been
> > underpaid all this time for all the licks he
> > takes.
>
>
> He's getting $3M per season, which at the time he
> signed the deal, made him the second highest paid
> slot WR in the league.
>
> The issue with Bess is his fit in the offense.
> They want interchangeable WRs, guys who can play
> all 3 WR positions effectively. Bess is only
> effective in the slot. He's a non-factor in the
> red zone, and he lacks big play ability. And he's
> a free agent at the end of 2013, and is likely to
> get more expensive. All of these need to be
> considerations when evaluating whether to trade
> him or not. Assuming they re-sign Hartline, add
> Jennings/Wallace, and draft a WR, would Bess at
> $4-5M a year fit on the 2014 roster? Probably not.
> And if a guy isn't likely to be here in 2014,
> trading him is not a bad idea.


you should really write a dolphins blog or something, mark. your insights into the team blow away any of the crap omar kelly or armando salguero, etc, post

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolfanmark Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 808phan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I don't think Bess will be traded. He hasn't
> > been
> > > paid but the vet minimum if not just a little
> > more
> > > perhaps - it's not like he's breaking the
> bank.
> > > The dude is just happy to have a job after
> > being
> > > an undrafted free agent. If anything, he's
> been
> > > underpaid all this time for all the licks he
> > > takes.
> >
> >
> > He's getting $3M per season, which at the time
> he
> > signed the deal, made him the second highest
> paid
> > slot WR in the league.
> >
> > The issue with Bess is his fit in the offense.
> > They want interchangeable WRs, guys who can
> play
> > all 3 WR positions effectively. Bess is only
> > effective in the slot. He's a non-factor in the
> > red zone, and he lacks big play ability. And
> he's
> > a free agent at the end of 2013, and is likely
> to
> > get more expensive. All of these need to be
> > considerations when evaluating whether to trade
> > him or not. Assuming they re-sign Hartline, add
> > Jennings/Wallace, and draft a WR, would Bess at
> > $4-5M a year fit on the 2014 roster? Probably
> not.
> > And if a guy isn't likely to be here in 2014,
> > trading him is not a bad idea.
>
>
> you should really write a dolphins blog or
> something, mark. your insights into the team blow
> away any of the crap omar kelly or armando
> salguero, etc, post



Agreed....but don't stop posting here!

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > berkeley223 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I think the article was overkill. I can
> recall
> > 2-3
> > > plays where Hartline was wide open down the
> > > sideline and if RT throws a good pass he
> walks
> > in
> > > for a TD. So he should have had about 2-3
> more
> > TDs
> > > and 100 or so more yards.
> > > I totally agree he is not a 7mm per year guy.
> > I'd
> > > happily pay him $4mm per though, and given
> our
> > > room and the need for continuity at the
> > positon,
> > > I'd swallow hard and pay him $4.5 or just
> under
> > > $5mm if that's what it took. I don't think
> any
> > > team will give him more than $4.5 or $5mm
> >
> > **********************************************
> >
> > Agreed on what he should be paid. I also don't
> > think another team is going to go above that
> once
> > they really look at his track record, both in
> > college and the pros. He had one good year,
> thus
> > far, and coincidentally, it was during his
> > contract year.
> >
> > You are correct in that RT missed him on some
> of
> > those bombs where Hartline could have scored,
> > but.....Hartline did himself no favors when he
> > also dropped a few that could have gone for
> > scores.
> >
> > Miami definitely needs continuity at the WR
> > position. If Bess is traded, Hartline is the
> only
> > one left from last year that had a lot of
> playing
> > time; the rest have yet to prove themselves.
> > That's where this off season comes in to play.
>
> >
> > Sign that one big FA name and draft the best
> > available WR with Miami's first 2nd round pick.
>
> > If Miami waits until the 3rd round or further
> to
> > get that WR, they are just repeating what they
> > have been doing for the past 3-4 years, which
> is
> > basically wasting their time.
> >
> > Again, he is worth that $4M salary, but not so
> > sure about anything higher than that.
>
> why do you think bess will be traded? I haven't
> heard anything like that. I think we'd be dumb to
> trade him---he is worth more to us than the 4th
> rounder we'd be lucky to get for him

*****************************************************

I don't think Bess will be traded, mainly for what I said (above) in that Miami needs continuity and also RT needs receivers that he is familiar with.

I was just putting that out there because of the "rumors."

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 808phan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't think Bess will be traded. He hasn't
> been
> > paid but the vet minimum if not just a little
> more
> > perhaps - it's not like he's breaking the bank.
> > The dude is just happy to have a job after
> being
> > an undrafted free agent. If anything, he's been
> > underpaid all this time for all the licks he
> > takes.
>
>
> He's getting $3M per season, which at the time he
> signed the deal, made him the second highest paid
> slot WR in the league.
>
> The issue with Bess is his fit in the offense.
> They want interchangeable WRs, guys who can play
> all 3 WR positions effectively. Bess is only
> effective in the slot. He's a non-factor in the
> red zone, and he lacks big play ability. And he's
> a free agent at the end of 2013, and is likely to
> get more expensive. All of these need to be
> considerations when evaluating whether to trade
> him or not. Assuming they re-sign Hartline, add
> Jennings/Wallace, and draft a WR, would Bess at
> $4-5M a year fit on the 2014 roster? Probably not.
> And if a guy isn't likely to be here in 2014,
> trading him is not a bad idea.

Thanks for the enlightenment. You have my vote to be the next GM for the Miami Dolphins.

**edit** And that's no BS bruddah!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2013 10:45PM by 808phan.

Why would we want Hartline to return when we can sign Terrell Owens and surely stop Donald Driver from hanging up the cleats for good. I mean hell their are a bunch of washed up receivers better than Hartline right? Hartline doesn't get the respect on this board simply because he is WHITE, and deemed slow an unathletic by many posters on this board. You put him on the Patriots last year, and give us Wes Welker, and his numbers would have been a hell of alot better. Welker's numbers would have been alot worse. The QB makes the receivers better, and last year Tannehill was a rookie. This year he should be alot better, and working with Hartline next year if resigned should allow them to garner more chemistry on the field together. Hartline might not be a top 30 receiver, but he was certainly the best receiver this team had last year. It would be stupid if this franchise did not resign him. However if we can get a superior athlete that has darker skin complexion, and let Hartline walk many on this board would think that was an upgrade to our receiving corps. It is really pathetic that some players are still defined by race rather than athletic, and playing ability. I would keep Hartline, and add another receiver along with Bess, and we have a damn good receiving corp going in to next year.

what in the world are you talking about?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

What I'm talking about is should Hartline be resigned hell yes. Because you don't let good offensive players on a offensively starved team walk without trying to resign them because he is considered average or below average. When clearly Hartline is a good to very good wide receiver in this league.

I'll put it another way if you had another QB that played the whole year with Hartline that trusted his arm more, and had the green light to throw the ball more into riskier areas rather than protect it at all costs Hartline's number would have been better than most receivers in the league.

that's all fine but why are you making it about race? no one cares if he's white or not, just whether he's a good WR.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

You don't care others believe whites can't play certain positions like wide receiver like black players, and that hurts players like Hartline when they are up for new contracts. Some on this board don't think Hartline is any good because he is not black very racist, and very unfair.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some on this board
> don't think Hartline is any good because he is not
> black very racist, and very unfair.

Who might that be?

That's a pretty wild accusation to toss out there without naming names.

I ca't think of one poster who has said Hartline isn't any good", let alone one who has said he's no good because he's not black.

In fact, the only poster on this site I can think of who brings up race on regular basis is YOU.

I think you'd like to believe that there are posters on this site that feel that way about Hartline because in some twisted way it allows you justify your position on the 'issue'.

Everyone write this down in their books.

Quote ChyrenB: "Amen, THE Truth."

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't care others believe whites can't play
> certain positions like wide receiver like black
> players, and that hurts players like Hartline when
> they are up for new contracts. Some on this board
> don't think Hartline is any good because he is not
> black very racist, and very unfair.


No one on this board cries race more than u. Be honest about it. You pretend your issue w/ Newton is not race based butit is. Were you not the same guy who said black qb's we incapable of throwing a certain pass? I have been consistent in my opposition to resigning Hartline at a high salary from day 1 and still am. Not because he is white but because he is an average receiver. If this were Bess who is a very similiar I would take the same position. I have alwas said I am for resigning him at a salary that merits his stats.

You have to be a big idiot to dump big money on any w/r white or black who does not have 7 td receptions in 4 years. But your post show that u r an idiot so I understand your position.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You are correct in that RT missed him on some of
> those bombs where Hartline could have scored,
> but.....Hartline did himself no favors when he
> also dropped a few that could have gone for
> scores.
>


More nonsense from the RT apologists. Hartline has some of the best hands in the league, and did RT plenty of favors by getting open and laying out (and catching) some errant throws.

This just goes to show how people are willing to throw perfectly good players under the bus in order to obscure the fact that RT is nothing more than an average NFL QB.

If we let Hartline go, I would expect him to become the next Welker.... But hey, at least we'd have let go that player that dropped all of Tannehill's passes

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

I am attacked for pointing out what I see as reverse discrimination for a player who happens to play a position unfriendly to white players. Well sorry if we can have a racial harmony it should include all races not just minority ones like myself and others. I was just pointing out what I feel might be a question mark on why some don't feel as if Hartline might be worth big money to keep on the roster? Can anyone please tell me when they watch football that they can keep race out of it 100% of the time. Well can you, I mean I feel like if Hartline were black we would not be even having this discussion about is he worth keeping because he would be considered an elite athlete. Where as he is white his athleticism and hands and route running are called into question when his contract is up for renegotiation that's it folks. I am not going to name names, but I think Hartline is getting a bum rap because he should of been offered a contract by now. I don't think Greg Jennings would be an improvement over him many on this board do. I wonder why that is. Not to mention Mike Wallace, and Dwayne Bowe hell just about any castoff except keeping and paying Hartline why is all I want to know. It is time to realize that racism can go both ways. I as a minority even can acknowledge that.

oh good lord.

Thread closed.