You get your corners and safeties either in free agency or the later rounds. You get your DEs wide receivers QBs and RBs in the first round and maybe your OLs.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You get your corners and safeties either in free
> agency or the later rounds. You get your DEs wide
> receivers QBs and RBs in the first round and maybe
> your OLs.


********************************************

I can agree with you, to a point.

Teams are limited, (by money) as to how many Free Agents they can sign. IMO, Miami will sign two, maybe three FAs this year. I, and many others, are predicting one, if not two, will be WRs. Where the other one comes in, I don't know, but if Miami does sign two WRs, the DB is out of the question, as they will be expensive. I am talking of an immediate starter, not a DB that will battle for a job. That third FA (if Miami goes that far) will be someone that can help the team, and possibly battle for a starting job, but will come on the cheap. That's why I say DB is out in the above scenario.

Unless there is an Adrian Peterson in the draft, RBs (usually) won't go until late in the first or somewhere in the second. Many of them will be picked up from the third round on.

For Miami, as with most other teams, their first round selection is going to be the BPA, no matter the position. Being at pick #12, that blue-chipper isn't going to be there, but there is a good chance that an immediate starter will be.

Extremely difficult for us to predict what Ireland/Philbin are going to do. Depends on what happens in front of them and who they have on their board when their pick comes.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You get your corners and safeties either in
> free
> > agency or the later rounds. You get your DEs
> wide
> > receivers QBs and RBs in the first round and
> maybe
> > your OLs.
>
>
> ********************************************
>
> I can agree with you, to a point.
>
> Teams are limited, (by money) as to how many Free
> Agents they can sign. IMO, Miami will sign two,
> maybe three FAs this year. I, and many others,
> are predicting one, if not two, will be WRs.
> Where the other one comes in, I don't know, but if
> Miami does sign two WRs, the DB is out of the
> question, as they will be expensive. I am talking
> of an immediate starter, not a DB that will battle
> for a job. That third FA (if Miami goes that far)
> will be someone that can help the team, and
> possibly battle for a starting job, but will come
> on the cheap. That's why I say DB is out in the
> above scenario.
>
> Unless there is an Adrian Peterson in the draft,
> RBs (usually) won't go until late in the first or
> somewhere in the second. Many of them will be
> picked up from the third round on.


I agree wholeheartedly Cap.

Only 8 of the top 20 RB's last year were first round picks.

Unless the guy has a freakish skillset like AP there is no need to take a RB in the 1st round. That might be the easiest position in the draft to fill with a non-1st round pick.

Well, I don't think we need an rb in the first round anymore than we need a QB in the first round.

I was just saying that these are the POSITIONS that you draft in the first round. It shouldn't be defensive back.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, I don't think we need an rb in the first
> round anymore than we need a QB in the first
> round.
>
> I was just saying that these are the POSITIONS
> that you draft in the first round. It shouldn't
> be defensive back.


************************************************

Again, RB could be drafted late in the first if a team really needed one, otherwise, 3rd round on would be fine.

A shutdown CB not a good first round pick? Granted, that position is a tough one to master in the NFL, but if a guy has that kind of talent, why not?

I would agree with you, tho, that typically a DB would not be drafted too high in the first. It is the same story with a WR, although a WR could catch on (excuse the pun)n a little easier and quicker than a DB.

Think about it. Both smith and Davis started right away for Miami, so if that shut down guy is there, he will be taken early.

I wouldn't be upset if we draft a shutdown number 1 corner at 12.. Just make sure he is exactly that....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

All of the shut down corners usually play man coverage...Revis, Nnamdi, Bailey, etc. We need one that has enough speed to close in the zone. It may or may not be worth a 1st round pick depending on BPA. Coyle has certainly made more of less in the past. We just need a better fit there. Sean Smith struggled in zone and did better in man.

I don't see why anyone would spend that high of a pick on Jordan or Ansah. What exactly did they do in college? Ansah 4.5 career sacks? Jordan 14.5 career sacks? That's pathetic. I would rather go into the season with Olivier Vernon.

Everyone wants to make comparisons to Jason Pierre Paul (6.5 college sacks) because of the height and lack of experience but what exactly has JPP done? 4.5 sacks in rookie year? and 6.5 this year. He had a good year in 2011 with 16.5 but he played along side one of the best lines around. That's nothing compared to a real sack specialist/playmaker like Ware or Jared Allen who do it year in and year out.

Might as well throw Margus Hunt in the picture. Too risky for me to spend #12.

I would not be happy if Fisher was not there either. He may be the best value for us.

If it fell that way we may be better off taking Chance Warmack if he can play in zone blocking. I would rather take a chance on a WR with an elite skill set or a TE than someone with no production in college. NE took a chance on Chandler Jones last year but it was at 21 not 12.

We should follow the rule not the exception or be damn sure about the guy.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I don't see why anyone would spend that high of a
> pick on Jordan or Ansah. What exactly did they do
> in college? Ansah 4.5 career sacks? Jordan 14.5
> career sacks? That's pathetic. I would rather go
> into the season with Olivier Vernon.


I'd rather have Wake, Vernon and Ansah or Jordan. Two pass rushers isn't enough when you go up against a quality offense.


>
> Everyone wants to make comparisons to Jason Pierre
> Paul (6.5 college sacks) because of the height and
> lack of experience but what exactly has JPP done?
> 4.5 sacks in rookie year? and 6.5 this year. He
> had a good year in 2011 with 16.5 but he played
> along side one of the best lines around. That's
> nothing compared to a real sack
> specialist/playmaker like Ware or Jared Allen who
> do it year in and year out.


I hear ya eesti but Jared Allen was a 4th round pick and Cameron Wake was undrafted. They were FAR from sure things when they came into the league.

As for Ansah and Jordan, both guys are late to the party as defenders.

Ansah is from Ghana and didn't play a down of American Football until 2010. Watch him on film from this year and you can see he has a lot to learn to dominate but he's come a long way in a very, very short time.

Jordan was a TE in HS and converted to defense 3 years ago. He's also a work in progress.

The thing with these two guys is that they have elite tools you can't teach. But they've also show to be very coach-able and quick developers.



The thing about this draft is there are no sure things. Its weak at the top which means that no matter who we pick at #12 its going to be about projecting their ceiling and how likely they are to get to it.

Few guys in this draft have the talent, skill sets and room for development Ansah and Jordan have.




>
> Might as well throw Margus Hunt in the picture.
> Too risky for me to spend #12.


I don't see it with Hunt.

He'll play in the league but he's stiff. Not as athletic as the other two, though he's bigger. Probably better suited for 3-4 DE where he won't be required to get sacks and can use his size and strength to play the run.


>
> I would not be happy if Fisher was not there
> either. He may be the best value for us.


He's my favorite O-lineman in the draft.

I can't see him lasting to 11, let alone 12.




>
> If it fell that way we may be better off taking
> Chance Warmack if he can play in zone blocking. I
> would rather take a chance on a WR with an elite
> skill set or a TE than someone with no production
> in college. NE took a chance on Chandler Jones
> last year but it was at 21 not 12.


You pick where you pick.

Who's to say NE wouldn't have taken Chandler at #12 if that was where they picked?

Even so...its about BPA with that pick. I don't want to settle, or take a shot on more of a need position. I want a guy who is going to be a cornerstone on this team for 5-8 years.

DE, OT, G, WR, OLB, MLB, CB, S, TE...I don't care.

Just so long as it isn't a RB because there is no way there is a RB in this draft that is the 12 best player at this point in their career.

Johnthan Banks 16 career int's
Dee Milliner 6
Desmond Trufant 6
Jordan Poyer 13
Xavier Rhodes 8

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Johnthan Banks 16 career int's
> Dee Milliner 6
> Desmond Trufant 6
> Jordan Poyer 13
> Xavier Rhodes 8


I like poyer and trufant a lot.

This is why I'd prefer to trade down.

There are 15-20 guys I could live with at various points in round#1.

The only two guys I've seen mocked I that 10-15 range that I would sprint to the podium to take at #12 are Eric Fisher a Jarvis Jones.

There are maybe a half dozenor so I could live with I that spot:

Ansah, Jordan, banks, wormack, eiffert, cooper.

There are another 15-20 I'd be happy with in that 20-25 range.

The question for me is are the guys we could get at 12 anymore of a guarantee than what is likely to be there in the early 20's?

Just read that Ireland is in negotiations with only Hartline and Clemons. The surprise here is Starks. Could be we are looking at a DT in the 1st round???? Or it coul djust be timing and we haven't gotten around to other players. It does show what the priorities are though.

Imagine if Star fell a bit and we ended up with 700 lb of Pacific Islanders on the interior of the d-line.

That means offenses will have to dedicate a center, two guards and a tackle to just two of our linemen. That could free up Vernon for more activity....helping our secondary in the process.

Also some good DT's available in FA. Henry Melton and Desmond Bryant. 16 FA DT's ranked higher than Starks this year.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just read that Ireland is in negotiations with
> only Hartline and Clemons. The surprise here is
> Starks. Could be we are looking at a DT in the 1st
> round???? Or it coul djust be timing and we
> haven't gotten around to other players. It does
> show what the priorities are though.
>
> Imagine if Star fell a bit and we ended up with
> 700 lb of Pacific Islanders on the interior of the
> d-line.
>
> That means offenses will have to dedicate a
> center, two guards and a tackle to just two of our
> linemen. That could free up Vernon for more
> activity....helping our secondary in the process.
>
> Also some good DT's available in FA. Henry Melton
> and Desmond Bryant. 16 FA DT's ranked higher than
> Starks this year.

Hartline is the only guy on our FA list I feel like we must bring back.

Not so much because he's an irreplaceable talent but because or WR corps suck so badly that we have to invest a lot of capital in them this off season. Having to find a 3rd or even a 4 th guy to replace him is too much for one off season.

I don't think Ireland is the type of guy to negotiate right away with everyone of our FA's. I hunk he's more methodical in his approach. He's going to prioritize them and then go after the ones he thinks will be easiest to sign to set the market for any others he takes a run at before free agency opens.

I am glad that he sees Hartline as a priority.

You are right. We have Rishard Mathews and Davone Bess as our #1 and 2 recievers right now. We can't afford to bring in all new WR's to start developing a relationship with Tannehill.

I think he still sees Clemons as ascending and knows he can get him for reasonable money. It would be hard to replace his speed. Hopefully he learns how to use it better.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't be upset if we draft a shutdown number
> 1 corner at 12.. Just make sure he is exactly
> that....

*********************************

Yep. Saw the other day a mock draft had us drafting a CB (Banks?).

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just read that Ireland is in negotiations with
> > only Hartline and Clemons. The surprise here is
> > Starks. Could be we are looking at a DT in the
> 1st
> > round???? Or it coul djust be timing and we
> > haven't gotten around to other players. It does
> > show what the priorities are though.
> >
> > Imagine if Star fell a bit and we ended up with
> > 700 lb of Pacific Islanders on the interior of
> the
> > d-line.
> >
> > That means offenses will have to dedicate a
> > center, two guards and a tackle to just two of
> our
> > linemen. That could free up Vernon for more
> > activity....helping our secondary in the
> process.
> >
> > Also some good DT's available in FA. Henry
> Melton
> > and Desmond Bryant. 16 FA DT's ranked higher
> than
> > Starks this year.
>
> Hartline is the only guy on our FA list I feel
> like we must bring back.
>
> Not so much because he's an irreplaceable talent
> but because or WR corps suck so badly that we have
> to invest a lot of capital in them this off
> season. Having to find a 3rd or even a 4 th guy
> to replace him is too much for one off season.
>
> I don't think Ireland is the type of guy to
> negotiate right away with everyone of our FA's.
> I hunk he's more methodical in his approach.
> He's going to prioritize them and then go after
> the ones he thinks will be easiest to sign to set
> the market for any others he takes a run at before
> free agency opens.

********************************************************

I really wonder if Ireland is actually negotiating with those two guys or is it a reporter or someone who just wants a story (or maybe their agent(s))?

Saying that, I tend to believe it is true because Ireland keeps everything he does close to the vest. The way he works is all of a sudden, an announcement is made.

I agree that Hartline is the guy who needs to be resigned, and as you said Truth, not because he is a great WR, but Miami can't afford to lose him then have to go crazy trying to replace him.

Get that #1 WR in FA, grab the best available WR with the 1st pick in the second round, and possibly one more in a later round. Another scenario is maybe grabbing two FA WRs. Hartline would be a great #2 WR.

I truly hope, however, he or his agent don't go nuts in thinking Hartline is a top level WR and asks for the world. He should be happy in the $4-5M range.

Concerning Starks; as far as we know, Ireland hasn't talked to him; but like I said above, who knows what Ireland is really doing? There is no rush to sign any of these guys, anyway; at least not now. I am positive Ireland will talk to each and every one of them to see where they stand. A few of them will leave, no doubt about it, but hopefully the ones that do, Ireland already has a replacement for them.

Considering both Hartline and Clemons are both represented by Drew Rosenhaus, I'm sure it was leaked by Drew.

It is a smart move that lets other teams know that Miami still values these players and are not concerned about resigning them.

Most times other teams are leery to sign players when their own teams are not even interested in them.

It benefits both players in case Miami doesn't sign them.

Ireland started contract talks with Starks on January 13th. They actually tried to extend him last June. Could be Starks wants too much money and Miami will let the market dictate the value.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Starks could get as much as $8M or so on the open market. It could be awfully difficult for Miami to swallow that, and be paying $16M combined to your 2 DTs, considering one of them comes off the field in passing situations. And if they want to re-sign Clemons and Hartline, and bring in a top WR, and possibly add an OT/TE/CB/DE, and sign Reshad Jones to an extension, that kind of money for Starks may just be too much.

That is a lot, also considering we need to spend the same type of money on a WR and still need to sign Hartline, Clemons a starting RT, LG, TE, CB...etc....this is going to get good.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

New mock to shake things up....

1 KC: Sharrif Floyd
2 Jax: Star LotuLelei
3 Oak: Dee Milliner
4 Phi: Luke Joeckel
5 Det: Bjoern Werner
6 Cle: Chance Warmack
7 AZ: Dion Jordan
8 Buf: Geno Smith
9 NYJ: Jarvis Jones
10 Ten: Damontre Moore
11 SD: Eric Fisher
12 Mia: Cordarelle Patterson

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Post Combine....

1 KC: Sharrif Floyd, Alex Smith in the fold and assuming they resign Albert and Bowe. This is a much needed piece.

2 Jax: Dee Milliner, Fills a need and the new GM likes prototype players that produced for big schools.

3 Oak: Eric Fisher, They are changing to a zone blocking scheme and need o-line help to get McFadden going.

4 Phi: Luke Joeckel, Iffy Achilles injury for Jason Peters and no RT. This is value and need to protect Vick who is the perfect Chip Kelly QB.

5 Det: Ezekial Ansah, Need a 4-3 DE and it's him or Werner who ran a 4.83.

6 Cle: Chance Warmack, Michael Lombardi take the safe bet instead of on unproven pass rusher. Warmack will greatly help Richardson and Weedon.

7 AZ: Dion Jordan, A huge need as they have no OLB's.

8 Buf: Jarvis Jones, Time to gamble on a potential game changer. Bills need LBer's and/or a pass rusher opposite Mario.

9 NYJ: Star Lotulelei, Piouha is 34 and injured last year. Rex needs to fix his once great defense and this is where it starts.

10 Ten: Jonathon Cooper, need to protect the young QB

11 SD: Lane Johnson, HAVE to give Rivers time to throw.

12 Mia: ....

Not much left here so who do you take? I think we have to take a chance somewhere as all the top talent is gone outside of Barkevious Mingo, Bjoern Werner, Tyler Eifert and the WR's....maybe Desmond Trufant

For me it's either Werner, Keenan Allen or Eifert and leaning towards Eifert and then taking the top WR in round 2...Terrence Williams.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This updated mock has us walking away with
>
> 1 Sharrif Floyd
> 2a Zach Ertz (pasing up Tyler Eifert)
> 2b Xavier Rhodes (passing on Terrence Williams)
> 3a Justin Pugh, OG (passing on Brennan Willaims,
> Jordan Poyer, Travis Kelcie & Tony Jefferson)
> 3b Stedman Bailey
> 4 John Simon DE/OLB (passing on Monte Ball,
> Michael Buchanon)
>
>
>
given that floyed is now getting mention at #1 overall and Rhodes is expected to go in the top 15 (some say 12 to us), this is a pretty redonculous mock draft. AND they have Eifert available at #12 in the 2d? come on man!

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

That mock was prior to the combine before Floyd (and Eifert) was getting all the hype.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

walter football is always totaly wrong in its mocks. though it did have us taking tennehill in the 2d round last year so at least they got the player right

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

well technically he was right. Tannehill should have been a second rounder. we reached.

Te'o at #8? REALLY? WHY? Eddie Lacy and Alabama ran over and around him him like Highschoolers running against Pee Wee's. Can't understand WHY he is getting the respect he's getting and Lacy is getting none. Especially considering the track record of Alabama RB's in the NFL as of late. Oh well.

ANd considering 'track records' I don't want us taking a DB OR and OL in the first round. Where does that leave us....good question.