Need to Focus on DE opposite wake. Move Odrick inside if Starks leaves. Hopefully they don't go before our pick.

Mingo
Ansah
Jordan

Go WR & OL in the second

DB (Thomas, Cyprien, McFaddens Rambo) & TE(or WR) in third (unless we sign Fasano & Cook or a #1 WR in FA or a big talent is avail)

It all depends on what happens in free agency. I think we will add a WR and a pass rushing DE like Michael Bennett or Michael Johnson. That would negate the need to go WR or DE in the first two rounds.

The recent PFF article suggested we sign both of the Bennett brothers, Michael and Martellus.

I would be leary about replacing one of our stud DT's with an underachiever like Odrick. He is fine in rotation but maybe not so much as a cornerstone of the defense. Our rush defense takes a big hit IMO. There are several FA DT's available this year that graded out higher than Starks that will cost less money. We just have to find one that fits our team/scheme.

Desmond Bryant (Oak) & Vance Walker (Atl) are a couple that performed at a high level after stepping in for an injured starter. Relatively unknown and probably not demanding of the Pro Bowl type salary that Starks will want. Starks graded at +3.5 (in a down year for him). Bryant graded at +16.5 and Walker was +7.6.

We have to replace two DT's one way or another. Ther are also some good vets out there....Richard Seymour, Mike DeVito that graded out very high.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I don't want Mingo. I looked at his stats and they are really pedestrian. Big althetic ability + bad college stats = NFL bust in my experience following this stuff

It should go without saying that I don't want a lineman (O or D) in the first round at all, there are actually some on here who want this?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Isn't he the guy who knocked out a horse?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't want Mingo. I looked at his stats and they
> are really pedestrian. Big althetic ability + bad
> college stats = NFL bust in my experience
> following this stuff
>
> It should go without saying that I don't want a
> lineman (O or D) in the first round at all, there
> are actually some on here who want this?


Watch him on film and you can see he's an exceptional athlete.

You can also see he's not that good of pass rusher. If he doesn't beat you with his first move he often stops rushing.

I'd take Ansah or Jordan over him without question.

Like I said, I just want to draft our top needs first and then give a second look in free agency to young guys who didn't make teams or even (as a wild and crazy move) look at guys from the CFL. I don't believe in guys from free agency.

What's my bias?

Don Shula. I think Paul Warfield is about the only star we had that we didn't draft and he basically came from the Browns almost the same time as Shula came from the Colts.

Mingo is a good 3-4 olb. Would not fit our D he is easily nuetralized in the run game. You do have to account for him in the passing game. We need more.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said, I just want to draft our top needs
> first and then give a second look in free agency
> to young guys who didn't make teams or even (as a
> wild and crazy move) look at guys from the CFL. I
> don't believe in guys from free agency.
>
> What's my bias?
>
> Don Shula. I think Paul Warfield is about the
> only star we had that we didn't draft and he
> basically came from the Browns almost the same
> time as Shula came from the Colts.

*******************************************************

Chyren, do these names sound familiar?

Little
Langer
Keuchenberg
Morral
Buoniconti (not sure if he came in while Shula was there or before)
There's more, but can't think of them off the top of my head right now.

Okay but in a run from 1969 to about who knows when and at least up to 1982 that's a very few. I would still say with confidence that Shula built his teams mainly from the draft.

YOU GUYS on the other hand are trading junkies and seem to think that the way you build a team nowadays is through free agency.

When you are 7-9 and have 20 FA's it's time to purge. You can't fill out a roster with 9 draft picks. When the other FA's are noticeably better than your own, it's not much of a dilemma.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2013 03:00PM by eesti.

But eesti, the question is not whether you sign free agents at all.

No one is suggesting filling 20 spots with 9 draft choices.

The question is whether you use free agents TO SOLVE YOUR LONG TERM CRITICAL NEEDS DEFICITS.

We tried to do that with quarterback. How'd that work out for us since Marino. Henne was probably our only QB drafted since then.

We don't have a sixth, gave it up for Miller

Trace Armstrong, Wes Welker were not drafted by us.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay but in a run from 1969 to about who knows
> when and at least up to 1982 that's a very few. I
> would still say with confidence that Shula built
> his teams mainly from the draft.
>
> YOU GUYS on the other hand are trading junkies and
> seem to think that the way you build a team
> nowadays is through free agency.


Of course, free agency didn't start until the 1990's. And when it did, Shula splurged in free agency. And the results weren't good. Fit in a system is so key, and with free agents, you just never know if they really fit. And you also can never be quite sure which free agents are going to lose a little bit of their hunger when they get that big payday. Free agency is a gamble, no doubt. The draft is, too, but free agents cost more.

They also came after Shula.

Free agents have never worked for us.....I understand a couple of free agents for depth or whatever....But do not spend big money on free agents...


Build through the draft.

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We don't have a sixth, gave it up for Miller

We have two - 7th round draft picks. One we got from Dallas for Ryan Cook.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Eesti i would understand if we were a couple of players away....Then i would agree to sign a couple of big name free agents.

But we are quite a few players away from been a contender.

Thats why i wouldnt agree with them on signing big name free agents like before, just for a fix...

IMO, stink, draft high in every round, and build your team through the draft.

That's not realistic or viable. Ireland is not risking his job to stink for a high draft pick in 2014. You can't be serious. You're philosophy is to stink just so we can draft higher? You want to go into the season with less than a full roster or by filling the spots with undrafted FA's?

We are going to sign or tender probably 7 out of the 20 players that are FA's. We currently have 40 players under contract.

That means we are bringing in 13 new players whether you agree with it or not. Most of those guys do not deserve to be back and even some of the signed guys will be released.

They are not all going to be big name FA's. Probably 2 or 3 top tier. 3 or 4 middle tier on guys with more potential than what we had in 2012 and then filling in the rest.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Of course ireland is not going to do it like that....Im just saying thats how i would do it.

The free agent thing hasn't worked for this team for the last 15 years.

Since dan left what they've been doing hast worked.

This team needs drastic changes and im afraid its going to take a while for the ship to turn.

And we are dolphin fans and we are stuck with this mess like it or not.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eesti i would understand if we were a couple of
> players away....Then i would agree to sign a
> couple of big name free agents.
>
> But we are quite a few players away from been a
> contender.
>
> Thats why i wouldnt agree with them on signing big
> name free agents like before, just for a fix...
>
> IMO, stink, draft high in every round, and build
> your team through the draft.


Building an entire roster through the draft isn't possible Sam. You get 7 picks a year...even good GM's hit on only about 4 or 5 of them.

So that means you add maybe 20 guys over a 4 year period at which point the contracts for the guys you drafted first are over. Some of them will get raises...some will be lost to free agency and need to be replaced.

When people talk about building through the draft its about building the core of your team from the draft. You still need to uses free agency and undrafted FA's to fill out the roster.

If you have gone through the trouble of creating cap space then you should use it on FA's.

The key, what good teams do, is they don't give big money to other peoples FA's very often. Because if you give longterm, big money deals to FA's who are aging, you won't have the cap space available to sign the core players you've been drafting once their initial contracts run out.

We absolutely need to sign FA's this year, and every year. We just need to be very smart about who we sign, how much we give them and over how many years.

That's why drafting BPA is the best way to build a team. If you go BPA, and you can identify talent, you always have a core of talented players you can build around with FA's and trades.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course ireland is not going to do it like
> that....Im just saying thats how i would do it.
>
> The free agent thing hasn't worked for this team
> for the last 15 years.
>
> Since dan left what they've been doing hast
> worked.
>
> This team needs drastic changes and im afraid its
> going to take a while for the ship to turn.
>
> And we are dolphin fans and we are stuck with this
> mess like it or not.


Signing Free Agents hasn't been the problem Sam.

Not replacing Dan was the problem.

You don't win in the NFL without a big time QB.

You don't find them in FA very often, you have to draft them.

We never got better because we never drafted a QB to replace Marino.

Somebody said it before, free agency is a crapshoot...just like the draft. Its just more expensive.

We've had plenty of good FA acquisitions and plenty f bad ones, just like most teams.

We just never had a QB to build a core around.

eesti and the truth...

Of course they are going to sign free agents to fill in positions...

And i agree its impossible to do it with just the draft...

My whole point is do not overpay or pay 3 or 4 free agents who are great a huge amount of money...even though we are in good position as far as the salary cap is concerned.

Again my whole point on this is now that we are ok salary cap wise do not go insane and overpay....

This mess is not going to be solved in one year.

I also think we should try and sign our own players as opposed to other players from other teams from other systems.

Players such as hartline or randy starks need to be resigned...

1. Hartline IMO is going to be even better now that he has got a year together with tannehill....Injury free..

2. Randy starks can change a game around all by himself hes proved it over and over...

What would be the purpose of letting them go and signing a receiver and DT from other systems.

I tell you this i rather overpay for our own.

I don't think Ireland is going to overpay for anyone. He seems pretty frugal...especially since Poorsells left. He didn't overpay for Soliai. He actually signed him to a pretty low deal.

I agree we need to resign our own players but only a few deserve to stay IMO. I do want to keep Hartline and Starks....maybe even Clemons and McDaniels but only for the right price.

Same for Fasano. He does not fit what we need for a seam threat. I would resign him but only to be a #2 TE.

I would also have no problem cutting Carpenter and resigning Kaeding to kick. He is at 87% for his career and Carpenter is at 81.9%.

Bush, Smith & Long can go test the waters elsewhere.....

I would also only tender Pat Devlin, Brian McCann and Austin Spitler and let all the other RFA's walk. That includes Marlon Moore, Mastrud, Amaya and Sanford.

Ireland is doing the right thing...let the market dictate the players worth and stick to our own evaluations of worth.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think Ireland is going to overpay for
> anyone. He seems pretty frugal...especially since
> Poorsells left. He didn't overpay for Soliai. He
> actually signed him to a pretty low deal.
>
> I agree we need to resign our own players but only
> a few deserve to stay IMO. I do want to keep
> Hartline and Starks....maybe even Clemons and
> McDaniels but only for the right price.
>
> Same for Fasano. He does not fit what we need for
> a seam threat. I would resign him but only to be a
> #2 TE.
>
> I would also have no problem cutting Carpenter and
> resigning Kaeding to kick. He is at 87% for his
> career and Carpenter is at 81.9%.
>
> Bush, Smith & Long can go test the waters
> elsewhere.....
>
> I would also only tender Pat Devlin, Brian McCann
> and Austin Spitler and let all the other RFA's
> walk. That includes Marlon Moore, Mastrud, Amaya
> and Sanford.
>
> Ireland is doing the right thing...let the market
> dictate the players worth and stick to our own
> evaluations of worth.


That's exactly right eesti.

Only overpay for those guys that are irreplaceable.

There isn't one guy of our RFA's or UFA's who fits that description.

There are a few we should try to bring back but nobody we should overpay for.