eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And Nelson was a second round pick who didn't turn
> in a decent season until year 4.


Well, he was decent in year 3. And it's a comparison to Nelson's skill set, not to how pro ready Nelson was coming out of college.

People may not be crazy about Allen because he doesn't come from a flashy program and isn't a 4.3 guy. But, if we can re-sign Hartline, sign Jennings, and draft the best WR prospect in the draft, I'd be happy.

I sign Bowe. Hartline takes a marginal increase or hits the door and I still draft a WR w/ 1 of the first 3 picks if Hartline comes or goes.

mizzou15 Wrote:
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> I sign Bowe. Hartline takes a marginal increase
> or hits the door and I still draft a WR w/ 1 of
> the first 3 picks if Hartline comes or goes.


No question that a Hartline signing needs to be reasonable. But losing him and the chemistry he had with the QB is a setback for Tannehill. I would rather re-sign Hartline for a little more, and dump Bess' salary in a trade if it came down to a question of $ spent at the WR position.

Rumor is Hartline is asking for 5 mil a season. He is probably the 7th best available FA WR this year.

He is due much more than a "marginal increase" to the 691k he made this year.

In 2012, Reggie wayne signed a 5.83 mil deal with Indy last year after testing the FA market. There were not a lot of takers for a guy his age so he stayed home.

Lance Moore signed a 4 mil deal in 2011 with incentives to make it closer to a 4.5 mil deal...that was two years ago though.

Laurent Robinson stole money last year in FA. He was given a 6.5 mil deal in Jax and produced only 252 yards after an injury filled year. He was coming off one good year (858/11) for Dallas after 4 years in the league of doing nothing.

Hartline is no Reggie Wayne but he isn't 34 years old either.

I would assess him at about 4.3 mil a year with incentives to reach 5 mil. I think this will be close to any offers he gets in FA.

After the top 4 fall in place (Jennings, Bowe, Wallace, Welker), other teams will still need help. Hartline would be a great addition to teams needing a solid number 2 WR. Houston, Cincy, NE, SD...just to name a few. Not mention the ones that are losing their number 1 WR's (and 2's).

Teams also know they have about 8-10 WR's to choose from in the top two rounds this year.

There are no other WR's I would want to give that contract to outside of the top 4. We should resign him. The only other FA options are Danny Amendola, Brandon Gibson, Donnie Avery, Dominik Hixon, Danario Alexander.

I like Avery and his 4.3 speed but he has never reached 1k yards in 4 years and doesn't have a year under his belt with Philbin and tannehill....I'll take Hartline all day long.

The chances of drafting a receiver to start from day one are possible but slim plus we need to do that in addition.

If anything I would try and sign Avery in addition to Jennings and Hartline and get rid of Bess' 2.7 mil/yr contract.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I agree w/ that salary for Hartline.

I could live w/ Bowe Hartline & Bess

eesti Wrote:
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>
> If anything I would try and sign Avery in addition
> to Jennings and Hartline and get rid of Bess' 2.7
> mil/yr contract.




I'd think we ought to be able to get a 3rd or 4th round pick for Bess.

Jennings, Hartline, Avery, Matthews and a Rookie would be pretty good.

type of WR the phins have targeted and the type that GB seems to target for the WCO.....

Donald Driver, 6'-0" 195 lbs (4.5 40): A former olympic qualifying high jumper that was developed by the Packers as a 7th round pick.

Greg Jennings, 5'11 198 (4.42): 2nd round pick, 3 sport athlete (basket, foot, track)

James Jones, 6'1 208 (4.59) 3rd round pick

Jordy Nelson, 6'3 217 (4.51), 2nd round pick (basket, foot, track) converted CB.

Jerrett Boykin, 6'2 218 (4.7), undrafted

Jeremy Ross, 6'0 215 (4.39), undrafted,

Randall Cobb, 5'10 192 (4.46) 2nd round pick, versatile athlete.

Jeff Fuller, 6'4 223 (4.59 pro day, 4.62 combine) undrafted

Rishard Mathews, 6'0 210 (4.45), 7th round pick

BJ Cunningham, 6'2 211 (4.59), 6th round pick

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Armstrong?

Sorry "brain-fart", not sure where that came from - meant Hartline.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And Nelson was a second round pick who didn't
> turn
> > in a decent season until year 4.
>
>
> Well, he was decent in year 3. And it's a
> comparison to Nelson's skill set, not to how pro
> ready Nelson was coming out of college.
>
> People may not be crazy about Allen because he
> doesn't come from a flashy program and isn't a 4.3
> guy. But, if we can re-sign Hartline, sign
> Jennings, and draft the best WR prospect in the
> draft, I'd be happy.

*************************************************

I may be speed possessed (as I lack such ) but I still say Miami has to get that speed guy, whether it be Wallace or someone in the draft. Miami, and Tanny, desperately need that guy who can blow the top off, allowing the other receivers to get open on the underneath routes. Can't have the DBs just sitting there waiting for the ball to be thrown. I believe that is why we never see any Miami receivers wide open on pass patterns.

I agree with resigning Hartline. He is a player. Watch what he does if he has that guy that can take coverages away from him.

Signing Jennings would be good, because (1) he knows the system, (2) could provide leadership, and (3) would come cheaper than Wallace. But....he is getting up in age (28-29?) and is coming off two straight injury seasons. why would Miami want to pay him big bucks to just lose him sometime during the season? Sure, Wallace could also get hurt, but I would rather take my chances on a guy who has been relatively injury-free, is younger (25?) and has top-level speed.

Then I would take the best available WR, and hope he has, at least, 4.4-4.5 speed. That would be with one of my two first round choices (probably the first one).

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > If anything I would try and sign Avery in
> addition
> > to Jennings and Hartline and get rid of Bess'
> 2.7
> > mil/yr contract.
>
>
>
>
> I'd think we ought to be able to get a 3rd or 4th
> round pick for Bess.
>
> Jennings, Hartline, Avery, Matthews and a Rookie
> would be pretty good.

*****************************************

I was talking to Ireland the other day <G> and he said he is just beginning to purge the money issue for the Miami Dolphins. He will be dumping a few players and clearing up more cap space. He will be asking some of his players to restructure their deals to open things up so he can sign those FAs that he really covets. He has yet to talk to Bush and he has a reason for that. He wants Bush and his agent to come to them with an offer, and he will counter (lowball) that. He knows Reggie won't get what he wants on the open market, and if Reggie somehow does, so be it. Evidently, his plan is to go with Miller. He will test D. Thomas to see where he is injury-wise. Thomas is on shaky ground. Can Thigpen do the job as a big back? Ireland just may have someone who is out there and available to come in.

As far as what Miami could get for Bess....I would tend to agree with a 4th rounder, but I'm not so sure about a 3rd. It would be great if Miami could, but it's questionable. I like Bess, but if we can get someone better, that's the way it goes.

Teams haven't been getting much in the way of draft picks for WR's in recent years.

Besides...The football gods told me....

Bush is going to Cincinnati or Detroit this year. I am betting in Cincy because they are a better and more established team....same HC etc.

Miller is going to rush for 1300 yards and 10 TD's this year.

Thigpen is going to be used in the slot more this year after he learns the offense better. (He played 29 snaps there in one game when Bess was injured.)

Bess will be traded for a 6th and a swap of 5th round picks.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Have you heard of that title of the book "The Gods must be crazy," berk?

If Ireland trades away Bess for a 6th rd pick, he is a fool IMO... We have issues at WR, they don't get better by trading away one of the best guys at the slot position in the entire NFL for a 6th rd pick.. Once we have a true threat on the outside Bess will be invaluable to us...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Ireland trades away Bess for a 6th rd pick, he
> is a fool IMO... We have issues at WR, they don't
> get better by trading away one of the best guys at
> the slot position in the entire NFL for a 6th rd
> pick.. Once we have a true threat on the outside
> Bess will be invaluable to us...

A 6th??!! He should take no lower than a 3rd, in my opinion.

Brandon Lloyd was traded for a 6th. Mike Thomas for a 5th to a desperate and injured team. Derrick Mason for a 7th.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brandon Lloyd was traded for a 6th. Mike Thomas
> for a 5th to a desperate and injured team. Derrick
> Mason for a 7th.


But Lloyd and mason were old.

Bess is in the prime of his career.

Better comparisons for him would probably be:

Chris Chambers, who was dealt for a 2nd.
Welker, who was dealt for a 2nd and 7th.
Anquan Boldin, who was dealt for a 3rd, 4th and a 5th.
Santonio Holmes, who was dumped for a 5th.

I just don't see Bess in the same category as those players.

Boldin was traded after 3 PB season and 5 1k seasons (he was 30)

Chambers was a former 1k and PB receiver and had three 900 yard seasons.

Holmes was a former 1st round pick with a 1k season and 3 or 4 800/900ish yard seasons.

All could be viewed as a #1 receiver.

Maybe he could be compared to the Welker trade but everyone at the time couldn't believe we got a 2nd for Welker.

I hope you are all right...assuming he is even traded.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Bess could be an important piece to the right team. For example, say Brandon Stokley retires. With Thomas and Decker on the outside, and Manning at QB, Bess would be a huge piece of the puzzle for Denver. They already have their big play WRs and TD scorers. Bess would likely get less catches for them than us, but he'd be more useful to them, if that makes sense.

I just want to see someone in the slot with some explosiveness like a Percy Harvin or Victor Cruz. Someone who can do more than short possession routes. It may be wishful thinking but we need an upgrade.

I would like to take a shot at one in the mid rounds. I think Ryan Swope could be a decent option.

It's too early to tell but after the combine we can get a better idea. Bess is a good slot guy. He is not fast but he is quick. He ran the 40 in 4.60 but ran the short shuttle in 4.28.

I would like to see someone there than runs a 4.45 and a 4.2 SS.

Swope already has a good chemistry with Tannehill. That is important for the slot receiver who usually runs an option route. When the QB and slot know what each other is doing, it is more effective. He knows the offense and is also a good run blocker.

Can't wait for the combine results.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just want to see someone in the slot with some
> explosiveness like a Percy Harvin or Victor Cruz.
> Someone who can do more than short possession
> routes. It may be wishful thinking but we need an
> upgrade.

I agree that we could use a more explosive slot WR. But, Harvin has averaged 11.8 yards per catch for his career. That's hardly impressive, especially given that he does break long plays. That means an awful lot of his catches are for real small yardage.

>
> I would like to take a shot at one in the mid
> rounds. I think Ryan Swope could be a decent
> option.
>

I like Swope, but a major red flag is his history of concussions.

I've read that Miami and Hartline are starting to get serious in talks, and the Chiefs want Bowe back. Also, Denver will franchise LT R. Clady

So I haven't heard many reactions to the news that Wallace is the top target for Miami.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I haven't heard many reactions to the news that
> Wallace is the top target for Miami.


He's the "Larry" in my 3-Stooges of available WR's, but I wouldn't complain if he signed here. The thing is though, that I don't totally believe that he's Irelands top target. Ireland keeps everything close to the vest, if this report "leaked" out, it was for a reason.

And one thing we've learned is that just because one may be our top target doesn't necessarily mean Ireland won't low-ball them and lose out.

I am trying to think of who else is out there that would provide the speed should Bowe get resigned or tagged and Wallace were to go elsewhere.

Maybe Jennings is more in the price range but I worry he will be gone by the time Ireland gets done flirting with Wallace or whoever.

We may end up with 2nd tier players AGAIN.

Brandon Gibson, Danario Alexander, Mohamed Massaquoi...

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And one thing we've learned is that just because
> one may be our top target doesn't necessarily mean
> Ireland won't low-ball them and lose out.
>
> I am trying to think of who else is out there that
> would provide the speed should Bowe get resigned
> or tagged and Wallace were to go elsewhere.
>
> Maybe Jennings is more in the price range but I
> worry he will be gone by the time Ireland gets
> done flirting with Wallace or whoever.
>
> We may end up with 2nd tier players AGAIN.
>
> Brandon Gibson, Danario Alexander, Mohamed
> Massaquoi...

Isn't Donnie Avery a free agent?

Yes and I like his speed (4.27) but he is not consistent at all. Lots of drops if I remember correctly. He has the 2nd to worst ranking of all the FA WR's this year (-7.7). That being said, he also put up 60/781/3 last year with Andrew Luck. He may be worth a flyer and turn out to be great in the WCO. ???

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Anybody thought about Ireland trading for Miles Austin? He fits the mold of a WC WR, and Ireland supposedly found him in Dallas. Just a thought

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody thought about Ireland trading for Miles
> Austin? He fits the mold of a WC WR, and Ireland
> supposedly found him in Dallas. Just a thought


What do you think it would cost us to get him?

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anybody thought about Ireland trading for Miles
> > Austin? He fits the mold of a WC WR, and
> Ireland
> > supposedly found him in Dallas. Just a thought
>
>
> What do you think it would cost us to get him?

I got no clue, but i'd give up one of our 3rds for him. You?