dolphin Wrote:
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> Have to have a QB that can get the WR the ball
> when they do get seperation for scores.

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We already have that guy!!!

If Tannehill can get the ball to WRs for TDs, then why isn't he?

I know, the entire team sucks except for one player...

Some of you need ot wake up and realize that Tannehill isn't really that good.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

DolfanKing Wrote:
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> If Tannehill can get the ball to WRs for TDs, then
> why isn't he?

If we still have to explain it to you, there is probably no point.

>
> I know, the entire team sucks except for one
> player...

The entire team does not suck and neither does Tannehill. We were rebuilding unless you forgot. New offense, defense, HC, OC, DC, QB...how much more can you change in one season?

> Some of you need ot wake up and realize that
> Tannehill isn't really that good.

And some of YOU need to sleep it off.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Just listened to the Greg Cossell interview on finsiders.. He said the most complete WR of the 3 is Dwayne Bowe with Greg Jennings in 2nd. He say Wallace is pretty much just a vertical threat.. If we signed Wallace with Hartline we still don't have a go to WR.. Wallace is more of a luxury then a #1 WR go to guy according to Cossell's analysis.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
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> Just listened to the Greg Cossell interview on
> finsiders.. He said the most complete WR of the 3
> is Dwayne Bowe with Greg Jennings in 2nd. He say
> Wallace is pretty much just a vertical threat.. If
> we signed Wallace with Hartline we still don't
> have a go to WR.. Wallace is more of a luxury then
> a #1 WR go to guy according to Cossell's analysis.


Out of all the "talking heads", I value Cossell's opinion the most.

I starting writing this in response to a thread on Victor Cruz but it turned into more of a topic for this thread so....(cut and paste)

I am not advocating for a Cruz trade but I believe depending on the formation, the Z or flanker will play two positions. He can play wide and set back or he can play between the LT and the SE and then he is the slot receiver. Usually in a 3 receiver set.

I believe Dwayne Bowe played Flanker and Slot in KC for the most part. In the beginning he was used at flanker and at slot on 3rd downs. Playing opposite him at SE in the past were Sammie Parker, Mark Bradley, Chris Chambers, Steve Breaston and even Dexter McCluster.

Can Bowe play SE? Possibly but he has been productive at the other two positions.

So if we need a SE, the fast downfield threat, then how does that work if we sign Bowe? He is not slow (4.51) but he is similar to Hartline in speed.

I don't think it's all about speed but I think Bowes game is more physical like an Anquan Boldin, who also played a lot in the slot and at flanker while Larry Fitz or Torrey Smith/Jacoby Jones plays SE.

Not to say that our big play WR can't be a flanker because I believe some #1 or great WR's have been flankers...like Jerry Rice. Big name SE's have been players like Larry Fitz and Randy Moss.

It may be that if we sign Bowe, we probably don't resign Hartline unless it is very a very low contract (not likely). That's just an assumption though. I know Philbin said the WR's need to be interchangeable and play all positions and I'm sure even if Bowe was at flanker and Hartline was at SE, it would still open up the field a bit for everyone. Just not sure it opens up the top of the field as much as having a true 4.3/4.4 deep threat.

I believe Greg Jennings has typically played the SE position while Donald Driver played flanker.

Philbin, while in GB would also exploit coverage and use Jennings and Driver at different times in the slot in cover 2 to stretch the seam or run a deep post.

Mike Wallace is definitely a SE but I am leaning towards this being a bad idea for Miami.

Maybe we just need more good receivers instead of a true deep threat number 1.

I can't wait to find out who we get.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Tannehill can get the ball to WRs for TDs, then
> why isn't he?
>
> I know, the entire team sucks except for one
> player...
>
> Some of you need ot wake up and realize that
> Tannehill isn't really that good.

*****************************************************

We'll find out this season, won't we?

eesti Wrote:

>
> I believe Dwayne Bowe played Flanker and Slot in
> KC for the most part.

In 2012, Bowe ran 4% of his routes out of the slot. In 2011, it was 7.3%. Over that time, Dexter McCluster or Steve Breaston served as the primary slot WR.

PFF doesn't break down his snaps on the outside by X or Z, but from anecdotal stuff from google, it seems like he has played plenty at both positions. You don't have to be a burner to be a good X. Hartline had a pretty solid season serving mostly in that role, and he's only sneaky fast, not a burner. I think Hartline's best position is Z, but he has the ability to play all 3, which is something Philbin values.

I like the burner attribute that Wallace provides. That could help to open up other receivers with the deep threat always present.

I am starting to come around to the thinking that Jennings may be our best bet plus he wants to be here.

I think Bowe will be a better red zone target but Jennings may be better for our offense all around....deep threat etc.

Sporting News has Jennings as the #3 best free agent this year.

It would be nice to have Jennings and Hartline and still draft a WR in the 2nd round. Maybe even a slot receiver. One that is a 4.4 guy who has the quicks....runs a 4.2 short shuttle....and can also line up outside.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am starting to come around to the thinking that
> Jennings may be our best bet plus he wants to be
> here.
>
> I think Bowe will be a better red zone target but
> Jennings may be better for our offense all
> around....deep threat etc.
>
> Sporting News has Jennings as the #3 best free
> agent this year.
>
> It would be nice to have Jennings and Hartline and
> still draft a WR in the 2nd round. Maybe even a
> slot receiver. One that is a 4.4 guy who has the
> quicks....runs a 4.2 short shuttle....and can also
> line up outside.


I agree eesti. If you think he's going to be mostly healthy, then he's the best fit. He's not too old that a 3 year deal would be crazy and he should be a lot less money than Wallace.

The big thing is the up front money. I'd pay him a little more in base over 3 years if he'd let us spread the upfront money out as roster bonuses over that span.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am starting to come around to the thinking that
> Jennings may be our best bet plus he wants to be
> here.
>
> I think Bowe will be a better red zone target but
> Jennings may be better for our offense all
> around....deep threat etc.
>
> Sporting News has Jennings as the #3 best free
> agent this year.
>
> It would be nice to have Jennings and Hartline and
> still draft a WR in the 2nd round. Maybe even a
> slot receiver. One that is a 4.4 guy who has the
> quicks....runs a 4.2 short shuttle....and can also
> line up outside.

No matter what, we need two additional WRs, and that's assuming we re-sign Hartline. If we get Jennings, he's not the big physical guy sometimes needed on slants or in the red zone, particularly on fades. You know, the kind of guy whose size makes it so you can throw to him even when he's not open..

If we sign Bowe, then we still need a guy with real deep speed, and who is a good threat as a run after catch guy.

Jennings, Hartline as free agents.

If we could grab BPA in round 1 whether that is a WR, Dee Milliner, Eric Fisher or a DE.

I would also like to double down on a WR. I like production in college. Stedman Bailey (as a slot receiver) and Terrence Williams were two of the best.

The mocks are all over the place. Some have Eifert dropping to round 2 with Ertz as the no. 1 and some are opposite.

Some have Williams as a 2nd and Bailey going anywhere from 2-4.

I watched some highlights of Cordarelle Patterson and love his running ability. He has good vision and instincts while running. His experience, production and having to go to JUCO scare me for a first round pick though.

I also like Ryan Swope (slot). He and Tannehill played well together in 2011.

I would also not mind grabbing a QB if EJ Manual drops far enough but I doubt it. I think Bruce Arians grabs him in the 2nd round for Arizona. I think he will be better than some of the other high rated QB'.

I still want a WR and a TE in the first 3 picks.

We also have Mathews and Fuller who I hope continue to develop and can get on the field this year. Both are great fits in the WCO.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
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> Jennings, Hartline as free agents.
>
> If we could grab BPA in round 1 whether that is a
> WR, Dee Milliner, Eric Fisher or a DE.
>
> I would also like to double down on a WR. I like
> production in college. Stedman Bailey (as a slot
> receiver) and Terrence Williams were two of the
> best.
>



This ^^^

Some of the reports I have read say that Keenan Allen is an ideal fit in a WCO. I think he will be one to pay attention to at he combine.

If you look at Green Bay's history with drafting WRs while Philbin was there, route running, hands, and run after catch ability all seemed to be more important than size or elite speed.

dolfanmark Wrote:

>
> If you look at Green Bay's history with drafting
> WRs while Philbin was there, route running, hands,
> and run after catch ability all seemed to be more
> important than size or elite speed.


All true mark, but if we are going to go by that model how many of them were top 15 picks?

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolfanmark Wrote:
>
> >
> > If you look at Green Bay's history with
> drafting
> > WRs while Philbin was there, route running,
> hands,
> > and run after catch ability all seemed to be
> more
> > important than size or elite speed.
>
>
> All true mark, but if we are going to go by that
> model how many of them were top 15 picks?


That's true. Most likely second rounders. But, if Allen grades out as the best WR in the draft, as many are speculating, and he is polished enough to contribute a lot as a rookie, I could see them doing it. If they can re-sign Hartline and get Jennings/Bowe/Wallace, then I guess it's not that likely.

This is my gut feeling. In free agency, we will land a WR and a pass rusher (Michael Johnson, if he's not tagged). And maybe a TE or OT, as both positions are well stocked on the market. And the first round pick is more likely to be a CB.

I wouldn't mind a stud CB that excels in zone. Not sure how Johnthan Banks fits there or if he is worthy of a #12. It's a pretty good bet Milliner is gone.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Yeah I see different players ranked all over the place. Trufant or whoever may be the 2nd best CB but that doesn't mean they will be the BPA or even worthy of a #12.

As far as Keenan Allen, I see nothing from his games that differentiates him from any of the other WR's. He doesn't seem that explosive. He doesn't seem to even have the running ability of Cordarelle Patterson and he produced nothing spectacular in the way of production. He did miss the last 3 games but even assuming he would have averaged 100 ypg he would have ended up with just over 1k yards and 7 TD's or so. He had a better sophomore year with 1300/6.

That pales in comparison to Terrence Williams who had over 1800 yards and 12 td's or Stedman Bailey who had over 1600 and 25 tds.

Bailey (and Austin) did have a better QB (Geno Smith).

Williams had a decent QB but not exactly RG3. He also looks fast but looks like a long strider like Allen. No great quickness from any of them.

I would have a hard time justifying a #12 on any WR this year. Patterson looks better on film but he was not productive at all. I believe he was the 3rd receiver most of the time...but soes he have the intellect to play in the WCO? Why was he at JUCO?

Lots of questions at WR and no clear cut blue chipper. That's why I think we are better off going OT, DE or maybe even DT if Lotulelei drops by some miracle.

DeAndre Hopkins, Justin Hunter...a few more that all look pretty equal overall. We'll have to see how things shake out at the combine to see who stands out in the 40, short shuttle and route running, intelligence and then look at the maturity & dedication.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I've begun to think about the receiving corps more holistically, and it's drawn me a bit away from Wallace. If Jennings is healthy and significantly more affordable than Wallace, then I like Jennings especially if it allows us to get someone like Jared Cook in FA who can stretch the seam from the TE position while keeping Fasano for the red zone target and chain moving he does. Retain Hartline at a reasonable price, add a 1st/2nd round talent at WR and utilize the pass-catching RB more (whether Bush or Miller AND Clay).

Jennings can still stretch a defense (if healthy) and mentor the WR corps in the WCO and Cook would from a different position. Hartline gets open deep as evidenced by his relatively high career YPC. Bess can do his thing especially on 3rd downs.

If Jennings is healthy and it's between just Wallace and a Jennings/Cook combo, I go for the latter at hopefully about the same price. I think it's about more quality options for Tannehill than it is about someone specializing in taking the top off the defense.

And Nelson was a second round pick who didn't turn in a decent season until year 4.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers