This is clearly an attempt to create leverage with the state of Florida.


When teams want the tax payers to help pay for stadium upgrades they always create the impression at they could leave.

In this case, Ross....a Real Estate Mogul...buying a company that owns sports assets provides a perfect blend of 'viable threat' and 'circumstantial coincidence'.

I doubt though, that he has placed a serious bid for a company valued at $8 Billion during these economic times. This is a leverage ploy.

As much as I'd hate to see the dolphins move to California, ill never begrudge an owner who has been losing money from moving to greener pastures.

Ross has no obligation to anyone to keep throwing money away on a bad situation. Frankly the fans in south Florida, outside of the few diehards who still by season tix when the team is losing, are pretty crappy. Even when winning the stadium is 25-40% full of opposing fans.

If they don't want partner up with an owner and help provide an updated facility for the team then they have zero right to bitch if the team moves.

Its not that they haven't been trying to build a winning team...

they have!

The thing is they do not have a talented scouting team or GM to make it happen...


_______________________________________________________________

Truth- lol, its the fans fault the Dolphins put out a piss poor product for years... The Heat are sold out with a good product, the Dolphins have failed to be able to follow the model of good product equals tickets sales.... Also you do know that teams left LA for a reason, so while LA might be big talk they are hardly a diehard fan base either.....

On a side note this has nothing to do with the Miami Dolphins, Ross's company is making a play to acquire a valuable company with good long term assetts and income. This is a Wall Street move not a NFL football move..... Big guys like Ross believe and can be correct acquisitions are the best way to grow income/customer base as well as diversify.... Simple as that, and has zero to do with the stadium pitch to the tax payer....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth- lol, its the fans fault the Dolphins put
> out a piss poor product for years... The Heat are
> sold out with a good product, the Dolphins have
> failed to be able to follow the model of good
> product equals tickets sales.... Also you do know
> that teams left LA for a reason, so while LA might
> be big talk they are hardly a diehard fan base
> either.....
>


Lol...that's not what I said and u know it.

It's not the fans fault the team has been mediocre(or worse) for a decade.

But that doesn't change the fact that the fans in south Florida are among the worst in the country at providing a home field advantage, even hen the team is good.

Nor does it change the fact that an owner has every right to pursue the best business deal he can when it comes to facilities.

If you want a team associated with your community the community needs to partner up with ownership.

If you don't want to do that you have no right to complain if he moves the team somewhere where a city is willing to partner with him.


> On a side note this has nothing to do with the
> Miami Dolphins, Ross's company is making a play to
> acquire a valuable company with good long term
> assetts and income. This is a Wall Street move
> not a NFL football move..... Big guys like Ross
> believe and can be correct acquisitions are the
> best way to grow income/customer base as well as
> diversify.... Simple as that, and has zero to do
> with the stadium pitch to the t

Agreed. This is just a business venture for Ross. It has nothing to do with planning to move the team. Our discussion on that is purely theoretical.

Ross isn't taking this team anywhere. But that doesn't mean he's not eventually going to sell the team to someone who would move the team.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As much as I'd hate to see the dolphins move to
> California, ill never begrudge an owner who has
> been losing money from moving to greener pastures.
>
>
> Said the guy, who I'm guessing, does not live in
> Florida.


Ha! Too true. But what does that have to do with anything?

If a community doesn't create an environment that makes it worthwhile for a corporation to setup shop there then what right do they have to complain when a business chooses to set up shop somewhere else?

AEG is a company worth $8 Billion....Which is too much for Ross alone. If Ross was serious about acquiring it he would be partnering with serious partners....and they would NOT be making a lot of noise about it.

This is totally about the stadium pitch.

Preach on eesti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think realist makes a great point re leverage for the stadium ugrades

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha! Too true. But what does that have to do with
> anything?
>
> If a community doesn't create an environment that
> makes it worthwhile for a corporation to setup
> shop there then what right do they have to
> complain when a business chooses to set up shop
> somewhere else?
>
> Remember back in the day when we had Marino? Back
> when teams were still penalized for crowd noise?
> (delay of game)
>
> Miami games were always sold out and the fans were
> always loud when opposing defenses were on the
> field.
>
> We were a winning franchise from the 70's until
> Y2K or so. That's 30 years of being competetive
> and being relevant in December.
>
> From 2004 until now we have been pathetic as an
> organization. That's 8 years of sucking (with the
> exception of 1 yr). You could even argue that we
> have sucked since Shula retired. JJ's reign did
> not produce many wins.
>
> You can suck for a couple of years before fans
> stop going... but a decade?
>
> Miami fans have never been exceptional but they
> were always willing to show up....until they lost
> hope.
>
> Give them back that hope and there will be no need
> to even discuss a move.
>
> It is the same deal in Tampa. Back around the time
> they won the SB and had a top 3 defense, you could
> not even think about getting tickets to the game.
> There was a long term waiting list for season
> tickets. Now they are blacked out EVERY single
> game. They have no stability.
>
> Nobody likes a loser (unless you are a Cubs fan).
>
> Since when did the fans (or a community) become
> responsible for fielding a competitive team? Since
> when did the fans become responsible for creating
> an environment they have no control over?
>
> The "business" already set up shop here. The
> business had a successful business model and then
> blew it. Years of bad business decisions is why we
> are where we are. Not because of the
> community...Pushing Shula and Marino out the door
> in a disrespectful way. Hiring incompetent
> "leaders" to replace them....Speilman, Wannstedt,
> JJ, Meuller etc...the list goes on and on...
>
> Sure maybe Shula was too many years removed from a
> SB win but at least we were in the playoffs most
> of time. He never had this level of failure. Why
> not let him retire and help choose his successor?
> It may be a different story today.
>
> Yes Miami is a different city than it was 20 years
> ago but they have not even had close to the
> attendance problems that the Bucs and some other
> teams have had. All even though we sucked big
> time. A better team cures everything.
>
> You don't ask for a raise (stadium) after your job
> performance has slipped for consecutive years. You
> ask for a raise after you've proven yourself and
> made a name for yourself.

Except he's not asking for a raise.

To continue your analogy, he's asking for a wage. The fins are the only sports team in Florida not to take public money for their stadium. They've been working for free up til now.

Look, I agree it's up to the owns to put a better product on the field. It's not up to the fans to but tickets when they suck. But we are t talking about filing the stadium. That's not the issue.

The issue is upgrading the facilities.

The local fans and govt have every right to say "your product sucks. We don't want to partner up on a facility."

And the owner has ever right to say: "my team brings in revenue to the community and provides entertainment. I'm going where they want me enough to parter up with me through good and bad times. I don't want a partner with who oy wants to be a partner when things are going well."


I can't speak about the crowds in the 1970's. but I went to around 20 games in Miami (mostly against divisional opponents) between 1986 and 2001.

We NEVER had the home field advantage crosswise that teams like the packers, giants, steelers, etc enjoy.

If anyone wants to know what a real home field advantage sounds like, go to a game in Seattle when the have a good team.

You won't see 20-30% of the crowd rooting for the visitor and you'll be lucky if your ears aren't bleeding when u leave.

1990s.

Joe robbie stadium.

I went to lots of games and it was so loud you could not hear your own voice.

Joe robbie stadium used to get real loud. Its something incredible. Its another kind of noise that hurts your eardrums.

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AEG is a company worth $8 Billion....Which is too
> much for Ross alone. If Ross was serious about
> acquiring it he would be partnering with serious
> partners....and they would NOT be making a lot of
> noise about it.
>
> This is totally about the stadium pitch.


I disagree, at any given time in the past Related Group has had up to ten billion dollars worth of projects going at one time. It is not Mr Ross it is the Related group who is in the bid to purchase AEG. After the housing bust one of the main initiatives of the Related Group was to diversify their holdings from just a primary real estate holdings and development to more then such... The buying and borrowing power of related group is way more then 9 or so billion. And this purchase makes perfect sense for their direction since the recession.... They could have gone under with what happened, they dont ever want to be so heavily vested in one area or industry as they were before, which risked the companies future....
This AEG bid news hurts Mr Ross locally it doesnt help him with anything let alone getting money from the local taxpayer.... A stadium pitch for 200 million over the 8 billion dollar purchase of a company such as AEG, come on.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2013 08:59AM by Crowder52.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I can't speak about the crowds in the 1970's. but
> I went to around 20 games in Miami (mostly against
> divisional opponents) between 1986 and 2001.
>
> We NEVER had the home field advantage crosswise
> that teams like the packers, giants, steelers, etc
> enjoy.
>

I can speak about the crowds in the 1970s; I was at nearly every home game from 1971 to 1977, and scattered games for a few years after that.

During those years, we ALWAYS had the home field advantage for those games. Granted, this was the Orange Bowl. The games almost always began at 1:00 (none of this 4:30 when it is cooler stuff) and it was hot as BALLS! Visiting teams and fans could not take it.

The seats were benches with no armrests or chairbacks, although for a couple bucks you could rent a cushion seat with a backrest that hooked onto the bench. That was for wussies though. You'd sit on the hot bench and it'd burn the back of your legs until you got 'used to it'. And the most popular guy in the stadium was the vendor who sold cokes in those cups with the plastic saran-wrap tops. Those guys must've made a fortune in 1970s dollars.

The entire stadium vibrated and echoed the cheers of the crowd, and heaven help any poor bastard QB who'd gotten poor field position in the closed end of the horseshoe part of the field after one of Seiple's punts. The couldn't hear their own snap count we'd be so loud.

As for visiting fans, there'd be *some* when the Jets came to town, but nowhere near a significant percentage as there is now---just enough of them that they could be noticed and (politely) ridiculed as we kicked their butts almost every time.

About Ross (or anyone) moving the team to LA, they'd be nuts. Football teams in LA have failed at least twice right (Rams, Raiders)? The lifestyle there these days is even less conducive to supporting football now than it was the last time they had an NFL team.

The only markets off the top of my head that could MAYBE be candidates for an NFL expansion or move would be Sacramento, Portland OR, Salt Lake City, San Antonio, and my personal preference if they'd have to move: Hartford (because I could drive there).

used to love going to phins game at the old OB when I was a kid. Buying those shady kabobs from the cuban vendors outside. To park you had to pay $15 to park on someone's lawn. The place was super loud and uncomfortable and falling apart. No video replay boards. Whole placed smelled like spilled beer. It was great!

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> used to love going to phins game at the old OB
> when I was a kid. Buying those shady kabobs from
> the cuban vendors outside. To park you had to pay
> $15 to park on someone's lawn. The place was super
> loud and uncomfortable and falling apart. No video
> replay boards. Whole placed smelled like spilled
> beer. It was great!

LOL...that was another great thing..the parking. You'd pay some guy a few bucks to park in his front yard. There was little or no parking at the actual stadium. Yet, there'd be no traffic jam afterward, there was a grid of streets and thus many different routes home.

Really funny but you would think I would be salivating about the Dolphins moving out here to LA.

I'm NOT!

The Rams, Chargers (in the old old days) and the Raiders all were here.

We didn't sell out nearly a damn game.

What does that mean to me?

Either I have to get my ole butt out and go to the most dangerous part of the city that has absolutely no near the stadium parking to see the game live.....

I would much rather watch it on TV.

but I won't be able to...........


Why, because it will not sell out and not be on regular TV and even DirecTV will not show a game in the home area if it is blackouted out.

Therefore, I lose seeing half of the Dolphin games whereas now I see them all.

So as a Angeleno I say 'STAY IN FLORIDA'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If teams and fans were to come to Dolphin Stadium and continually get their asses handed to them maybe they wouldn't be so prone to show up to Dolphin games. Nobody wants to see their team lose.

One thing is for sure. Sunlife needs renovations. This whole dual stadium thing is not good for football games. I like that in the new proposal they moved the stands closer to the field. Hopefully they added more big screens throughout the stadium. Those were my only two complaints.

as far as the raise/wage debate....

He is asking for money at a time when most people are struggling to make any. He is also asking for money at a time when the team sucks. It's just bad timing to be asking. For years we were self sufficient and now that times are tough all the way around, he wants to ask for money.

I would gladly pay a few more cents if I lived in Miami but I'm sure most in Miami aren't as fanatical as I am when it comes to the Dolphins.

Hopefully he is just planting the seed and we can reward the local fans with a great season in 2013 with some hope for the future. The glimpse of hope for a frachise QB and some play makers would do wonders for the communities outlook on the subject and hopefully we are another year removed from this stagnant economy.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If teams and fans were to come to Dolphin Stadium
> and continually get their asses handed to them
> maybe they wouldn't be so prone to show up to
> Dolphin games. Nobody wants to see their team
> lose.
>
> One thing is for sure. Sunlife needs renovations.
> This whole dual stadium thing is not good for
> football games. I like that in the new proposal
> they moved the stands closer to the field.
> Hopefully they added more big screens throughout
> the stadium. Those were my only two complaints.
>
> as far as the raise/wage debate....
>
> He is asking for money at a time when most people
> are struggling to make any. He is also asking for
> money at a time when the team sucks. It's just bad
> timing to be asking. For years we were self
> sufficient and now that times are tough all the
> way around, he wants to ask for money.

Actually, he's paying for the renovations the regular fans would see on a regular basis. What he's asking for is for the county to pick up the tab on the renovations the NFL requires to keep sending Super Bowls to south Florida.

If I understood their proposal correctly, the renovations that Ross is paying for are happening regardless of what Miami-Dade decides to do.


>
> I would gladly pay a few more cents if I lived in
> Miami but I'm sure most in Miami aren't as
> fanatical as I am when it comes to the Dolphins.

You wouldn't have to pay another cent. The proposal calls for an increase on the room tax for tourists from 6 to 7%. That is how Jerry jones got public funding for his palace except the hotel tax rate in Dallas is 12%.


>
> Hopefully he is just planting the seed and we can
> reward the local fans with a great season in 2013
> with some hope for the future. The glimpse of hope
> for a frachise QB and some play makers would do
> wonders for the communities outlook on the subject
> and hopefully we are another year removed from
> this stagnant economy.

I'm just glad the local fan doesn't get to vote on this.

Most are far to ignorant of the facts to make the right choice.

I don't trust politicians to do the right thing unless it benefits them financially...and lucky for us...this does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2013 10:03AM by THE Truth.

I guess I should have read the article. haha

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

the current miami dolphins stadium seats are far much more apart than the old orange ball stadium...

There fore less noise......but still gets real loud.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2013 10:08AM by samsam3738.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1994 558,057 93% 3.7%
> 1995 560,919 93% 0.5%
> 1996 593,851 99% 5.9%
> 1997 574,811 96% -3.2%
> 1998 581,784 97% 1%
> 1999 592,161 98% 1.78%
> 2000 589,909 98.1% -0.4%
>
>
> 2001 2002 2003 2004
> 588,067 585,523 587,787 580,808
>
> 2005 2006 2007
> 575,256 585,543 496,659
>
> The stadium being filled didnt fall off until
> 2007.... We were over 95% capacity before that
> pretty consistently one of the top in the NFL
> during that time period.... In 2007 we were
> horrible and attendance fell sharply, this was
> also the twenty year of the stadium which all
> original season ticket holders had to renew and
> had their ticket prices doubled......
> So I dont want to hear how south florida doesnt
> support the team.. That is a myth. We just dont
> support over priced crap product and who can blame
> us...


Two issues with those stats crowder:

First, they are cooked. Maybe not all of them, but every team has had to buy its own tix to avoid local blackouts at some point.

Secondly, those numbers don't reflect the breakdown of dolphin fans to opponents fans. It's no great secret that whomever weplay on any given week looks at th game at Miami as a road trip/vacation.

Very few of the games I went to in the 14 years I went to games there weren't onfront of a big crowd. The issue was that a larger proportion of that crowd was rooting for the wrong team than you would find in the vast majority of NFL cities.

Truth I went to just about every homegame from about 1983 to 2007, and I can tell you are wrong. There was always fans of other teams sprinkled in, mostly Jets, Raiders and Buffalo games but it was never even ten percent. Just as many as I see Dolphins fans when we play away. It didnt get bad until after 2007, when 25%plus of long time ticket holders let their tickets go... Tickets that were locally owned went in a different directions, people didn't desire the tickets, so the people buying those tickets changed...
The stats are not cooked I got them from a stadium stats site not affiliated with the Dolphins.. None of those years posted were the Dolphins buying out blackout games.. That has only started to happen recently, so only the new stats would be cooked not the older strong stats..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2013 10:30AM by Crowder52.