Someone we haven't talked about I believe may be available is Percy Harvin who could be had for a 2nd or 3rd.

I think he would be a great addition, but if we want less risk go for Danny Amendola before NE does.

I don't see Harvin being the missing piece of the puzzle. While he is strong, fast and elusive, He has never really been a consistent deep threat.

Not something I would want to give up a draft pick for. His ypc average is 11.8 and he has never had more than 6 TD's. 3 this year. he is great at getting yards after the catch but he gets the underneath routes.

We need someone to open up the top of the field.

I view him as more of a complimentary #2 receiver and all around player.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

How about Greenbays jenkins? I would like a Free agency Veteran as well as a Stud Rookie this coming off Season.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone we haven't talked about I believe may be
> available is Percy Harvin who could be had for a
> 2nd or 3rd.
>
> I think he would be a great addition, but if we
> want less risk go for Danny Amendola before NE
> does.


Why on earth would we have any interest in Danny Amendola? Amendola has averaged 8.8 yards per catch for his career. We need to add playmakers, not WRs who can't even average 9 yards per catch. He's also only stayed healthy for 12 games over the last two years.

Greg Jennings is a taylor made FA for us, plays in a similar offense, knows the coach well, wont cost us picks, not a diva. I'll be pissed if we dont make a run at him, I know Philbin want's to operate in the G/Bay mold of no high priced free agents, but if he sits on too many 7-9 seasons waiting for draft picks to develop, he wont be here too long. Sign Jennings AND invest a high pick on another one.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know Philbin want's to
> operate in the G/Bay mold of no high priced free
> agents, but if he sits on too many 7-9 seasons
> waiting for draft picks to develop, he wont be
> here too long. Sign Jennings AND invest a high
> pick on another one.

Agreed!! Next year Tanny will be a vet with one year under his belt! So will Lamar Miller. It's time to invest in a good WR, and we'll do MUCH better with a vet than a draft pick. Go defense or TE in the 1st round and sign a couple good vet WRs!!

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greg Jennings is a taylor made FA for us, plays in
> a similar offense, knows the coach well, wont cost
> us picks, not a diva. I'll be pissed if we dont
> make a run at him, I know Philbin want's to
> operate in the G/Bay mold of no high priced free
> agents, but if he sits on too many 7-9 seasons
> waiting for draft picks to develop, he wont be
> here too long. Sign Jennings AND invest a high
> pick on another one.

I think they realize that without better receivers, it hurts Tannehill's development. Jennings is the only one of the "name" WRs that makes sense for us. Wallace and Bowe may not even come free. Neither has played in a west coast offense. Wallace has shown his "diva." Bowe is big and physical, but not as much of a deep threat as we need. Jennings knows Philbin, knows the west coast offense, and is coming off a terrible season, reducing his market value. And with Nelson, Jones, and Cobb, Jennings probably will not get the payday from Green Bay that he would elsewhere. Sign him, and invest a first or second round pick in another WR. And then double down with a 3rd or 4th rounder.

And this may seem heretical, but consider trading Davone Bess. I love Bess, and he's a quality slot WR and a hard worker. But, he's been here 5 years, with 4 different QBs, and he does not produce enough TDs (12) or big plays (career 10.7 yards per catch). His rookie year, he was 3rd on the team in receptions. Since then, he's been the #1 or #2 option in the passing game. And the big plays just aren't there. For this offense to go to another level, he needs to be reduced to the #3 or #4 option in the passing game. And as the #3 or #4 option, does it make sense to pay him over $3M per season? If there is a contender out there that needs a slot WR, and would trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him, I think you'd have to consider it.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greg Jennings is a taylor made FA for us, plays in
> a similar offense, knows the coach well, wont cost
> us picks, not a diva. I'll be pissed if we dont
> make a run at him, I know Philbin want's to
> operate in the G/Bay mold of no high priced free
> agents, but if he sits on too many 7-9 seasons
> waiting for draft picks to develop, he wont be
> here too long. Sign Jennings AND invest a high
> pick on another one.


The thing to remember about the Green Bay model is that they eschew free agency in favor of building through the draft because they HAVE to.

The are the only publicly owned team in the league and they don't have an owner with deep pockets to throw around huge signing bonuses to keep players or bring them in from other teams.

Its not one or the other.

The best way to do it is to build through the draft, sign your own guys as they develop and fill in the remaining holes through free agency.

quote the truth: The best way to do it is to build through the draft, sign your own guys as they develop and fill in the remaining holes through free agency.

Exactly right..

I add.....

But we have a lot of picks i wish we stopped trading down and just pick the best available eithr Receiver TE LB OL Corner..

I think if we stay put and draft the best available we are going to hit on a few of them.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Greg Jennings is a taylor made FA for us, plays
> in
> > a similar offense, knows the coach well, wont
> cost
> > us picks, not a diva. I'll be pissed if we dont
> > make a run at him, I know Philbin want's to
> > operate in the G/Bay mold of no high priced
> free
> > agents, but if he sits on too many 7-9 seasons
> > waiting for draft picks to develop, he wont be
> > here too long. Sign Jennings AND invest a high
> > pick on another one.
>
>
> The thing to remember about the Green Bay model is
> that they eschew free agency in favor of building
> through the draft because they HAVE to.
>
> The are the only publicly owned team in the league
> and they don't have an owner with deep pockets to
> throw around huge signing bonuses to keep players
> or bring them in from other teams.
>
> Its not one or the other.
>
> The best way to do it is to build through the
> draft, sign your own guys as they develop and fill
> in the remaining holes through free agency.

I agree with all of that Truth, but Philbin has come out and said he want's to follow that model, I hope he see's the light. I'm encouraged by Irelands comments during Hard Knocks, he told Peter King "this team has a bunch of 3 & 4 WR's" he didn't do anything to fix it last year, but at that point there really wasn't much he could do, BUT, at least he acknowledged it, and he's not so stubborn to think the position is fine. He has to add a FA WR this year, and to me Jennings should be the #1 target of the off-season.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Greg Jennings is a taylor made FA for us, plays
> in
> > a similar offense, knows the coach well, wont
> cost
> > us picks, not a diva. I'll be pissed if we dont
> > make a run at him, I know Philbin want's to
> > operate in the G/Bay mold of no high priced
> free
> > agents, but if he sits on too many 7-9 seasons
> > waiting for draft picks to develop, he wont be
> > here too long. Sign Jennings AND invest a high
> > pick on another one.
>
> I think they realize that without better
> receivers, it hurts Tannehill's development.
> Jennings is the only one of the "name" WRs that
> makes sense for us. Wallace and Bowe may not even
> come free. Neither has played in a west coast
> offense. Wallace has shown his "diva." Bowe is big
> and physical, but not as much of a deep threat as
> we need. Jennings knows Philbin, knows the west
> coast offense, and is coming off a terrible
> season, reducing his market value. And with
> Nelson, Jones, and Cobb, Jennings probably will
> not get the payday from Green Bay that he would
> elsewhere. Sign him, and invest a first or second
> round pick in another WR. And then double down
> with a 3rd or 4th rounder.


I can't see Wallace getting tagged and Pittsburgh isn't likely to pay two WR's 8+mill a year. They have parted ways with other big time WR's in the recent past (Plaxico and Santonio Holmes) instead of overpaying for them.

Once they yanked their offer off the table to Wallace and handed it to Antonio Brown his fate was sealed.

Wallace and Jennings are about as sure a thing to make it to free agency as there is.



>
> And this may seem heretical, but consider trading
> Davone Bess. I love Bess, and he's a quality slot
> WR and a hard worker. But, he's been here 5 years,
> with 4 different QBs, and he does not produce
> enough TDs (12) or big plays (career 10.7 yards
> per catch). His rookie year, he was 3rd on the
> team in receptions. Since then, he's been the #1
> or #2 option in the passing game. And the big
> plays just aren't there. For this offense to go to
> another level, he needs to be reduced to the #3 or
> #4 option in the passing game. And as the #3 or #4
> option, does it make sense to pay him over $3M per
> season? If there is a contender out there that
> needs a slot WR, and would trade a 2nd or 3rd
> round pick for him, I think you'd have to consider
> it.

I couldn't agree more. I've had many arguments with fellow fins fans about this very subject.

Bess doesn't have the speed to be great in this offense. He can't run away from most LB's let alone DB's. He's a 4th wr in a west coast offense and they will spend the next year or two looking for an upgrade.

I'd trade him also.

Then sign one, draft two and keep Matthews and Hartline.

From Armondo's twitter
Team source tells me if playmaking UFA such as Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings is available, Dolphins will chase: tinyurl.com/adp53et

Good sign

I have my doubts about Jenning. WR's don't get better after 30 they get out.

He will be 30 next September and has missed 11 games over the past two years. It's a sign we have seen too many times. He may be breaking down.

I would take a look at him for a lower contract but nothing over 3-4 mil a year.

Wallace will be 27 next year and is in his prime.

I also like the idea of trading Bess. We need play makers. Something he is not.

If I can't get Wallace I would trade Bess and go after Wes Welker. Yes, he will be 32 in May but he is still producing at a high level (118/1354/6)and I'm sure he would love to stick it to NE after they tried to replace him.

Then I would draft a WR in one of the first 3 picks.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I'd go with this:

Stick with Hartline, Binns, Bess, and Matthews. (the last three just for the time being)

Release or trade Marlon Moore

Sign Jennings and one more F/A

Draft Two WR's In the first three rounds...but they must be big, FAST, athletic, physical, and have good hands.

Then trade or release Fasano, Kyle Miller and Mastrud...Egnew and Clay would be the only keepers.

Draft a big play TE in Rd's one or two.

See who rises to the occasion and who dosen't.

I'm not going to jump on the trade Bess bandwagon until we have an effective replacement for him...I think he has more to offer this offense. Provided we can get deep help to force the saftey's to stay back.

I also keep all four of our RB's.

I don't Bess garnering to much in a trade, maybe a 5th/6th?

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd go with this:
>
> Stick with Hartline, Binns, Bess, and Matthews.
> (the last three just for the time being)
>
> Release or trade Marlon Moore

No one is trading for a WR who can't catch the ball.

>
> Sign Jennings and one more F/A
>
> Draft Two WR's In the first three rounds...but
> they must be big, FAST, athletic, physical, and
> have good hands.

Right now, it's a weak draft class at WR.

>

> Then trade or release Fasano, Kyle Miller and
> Mastrud...Egnew and Clay would be the only
> keepers.
>

Fasano is a free agent. Egnew and Clay are not capable of blocking anyone. If you carry both of them at TE, then the other TEs on the roster need to be good blockers. And the really good blockers don't tend to be the playmakers.

> Draft a big play TE in Rd's one or two.
>
> See who rises to the occasion and who dosen't.
>
> I'm not going to jump on the trade Bess bandwagon
> until we have an effective replacement for him...I
> think he has more to offer this offense. Provided
> we can get deep help to force the saftey's to stay
> back.
>
This was Bess' career best season in terms of yards per catch. We've had Ted Ginn and Brandon Marshall. And we've had 4 different QBs. And in none of those situations has Bess produced big plays. Why should we continue to wait? It's been 5 years.


> I also keep all four of our RB's.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have my doubts about Jenning. WR's don't get
> better after 30 they get out.
>
> He will be 30 next September and has missed 11
> games over the past two years. It's a sign we have
> seen too many times. He may be breaking down.
>
> I would take a look at him for a lower contract
> but nothing over 3-4 mil a year.
>
> Wallace will be 27 next year and is in his prime.
>
> I also like the idea of trading Bess. We need play
> makers. Something he is not.
>
> If I can't get Wallace I would trade Bess and go
> after Wes Welker. Yes, he will be 32 in May but he
> is still producing at a high level (118/1354/6)and
> I'm sure he would love to stick it to NE after
> they tried to replace him.
>
> Then I would draft a WR in one of the first 3
> picks.

So, no Jennings at age 30, but yes on Welker (who will cost twice as much) at age 32? And you realize, Welker is not nearly the same player in another system with a different QB?

Yeah you 2 are the same guys who wanted to trade Welker too! It is not Bess it is the QB!!

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah you 2 are the same guys who wanted to trade
> Welker too! It is not Bess it is the QB!!


#1...wrong.

#2...wrong.

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah you 2 are the same guys who wanted to trade
> Welker too! It is not Bess it is the QB!!


You mean all 4 of the starting QBs Bess has played with.

And no one wanted to trade Welker. He was a restricted free agent. He chose to leave. And a trade was only worked out because the commissioner's office was mad that the Patriots used a poison pill offer to sign him.

I would be interested in Jennings as a low-cost option to lead the WR corps in picking up the WCO, but his 2012 season was a significant drop-off from the previous 5 or so seasons.

The thing that worries me about Wallace is diva tendencies with the contract and my worry that he might be tailor-made for PIT's offense but might not flourish in another. I don't have any factual basis for this, but PIT seems to be one of those places whose players flourish in their system/environment but aren't the same as FAs on other teams.

I haven't done any study about prospects in this year's draft, but are there any AJ Greens or Megatrons coming out?

Mike Wallace is not the kind of personality that Philbin wants on the team. He has clearly shown that talented but troubled players have no place on his roster.

Jennings, on the other hand, seems like the perfect fit even at the age of 30.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd go with this:
> >
> > Stick with Hartline, Binns, Bess, and Matthews.
> > (the last three just for the time being)
> >
> > Release or trade Marlon Moore
>
> No one is trading for a WR who can't catch the
> ball.

RE: That's why I said trade OR release him.
>
> >
> > Sign Jennings and one more F/A
> >
> > Draft Two WR's In the first three rounds...but
> > they must be big, FAST, athletic, physical, and
> > have good hands.
>
> Right now, it's a weak draft class at WR.

RE: Maybe so but we need to draft two anyway...we simply don't have choices right now. We need the help.
>
> >
>
> > Then trade or release Fasano, Kyle Miller and
> > Mastrud...Egnew and Clay would be the only
> > keepers.
> >
>
> Fasano is a free agent. Egnew and Clay are not
> capable of blocking anyone. If you carry both of
> them at TE, then the other TEs on the roster need
> to be good blockers. And the really good blockers
> don't tend to be the playmakers.

RE: Ok, then Fasano should be outright released...he dosen't do enough in the passing game so he's a liability to us. Maybe Egnew and clay are poor blockers but they are the only ones who can catch and that have any dynamic play ability...yhat's why they should stick. And you only carry both Egnew and Clay until the guy we draft either succeeds or fails.
>
> > Draft a big play TE in Rd's one or two.
> >
> > See who rises to the occasion and who dosen't.
> >
> > I'm not going to jump on the trade Bess
> bandwagon
> > until we have an effective replacement for
> him...I
> > think he has more to offer this offense.
> Provided
> > we can get deep help to force the saftey's to
> stay
> > back.
> >
> This was Bess' career best season in terms of
> yards per catch. We've had Ted Ginn and Brandon
> Marshall. And we've had 4 different QBs. And in
> none of those situations has Bess produced big
> plays. Why should we continue to wait? It's been 5
> years.

RE: And neither one of those guys did anything to keep the opposing safties deep...
>
>
> > I also keep all four of our RB's.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have my doubts about Jenning. WR's don't get
> > better after 30 they get out.
> >
> > He will be 30 next September and has missed 11
> > games over the past two years. It's a sign we
> have
> > seen too many times. He may be breaking down.
> >
> > I would take a look at him for a lower contract
> > but nothing over 3-4 mil a year.
> >
> > Wallace will be 27 next year and is in his
> prime.
> >
> > I also like the idea of trading Bess. We need
> play
> > makers. Something he is not.
> >
> > If I can't get Wallace I would trade Bess and
> go
> > after Wes Welker. Yes, he will be 32 in May but
> he
> > is still producing at a high level
> (118/1354/6)and
> > I'm sure he would love to stick it to NE after
> > they tried to replace him.
> >
> > Then I would draft a WR in one of the first 3
> > picks.
>
> So, no Jennings at age 30, but yes on Welker (who
> will cost twice as much) at age 32? And you
> realize, Welker is not nearly the same player in
> another system with a different QB?

Twice as much? I doubt it but yes, Welker will get a bigger contract. Why? because he has earned it. I would never sign an aging player with injury concerns. Like I said, I would check him out but I am not giving him 6-8 mil a year. Welker has no concerns even though he is two years older.

As far as being the same player...that remains to be seen. Of course any WR is going to play better with Tom Brady than Joey Harrington. That's obvious but Tannehill has the talent to get him the ball.

Welker was not my first option but he could still do wonders for Tannehill. Jennings is a question mark.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah you 2 are the same guys who wanted to trade
> Welker too! It is not Bess it is the QB!!

making shit up again.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Krunk Fu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Wallace is not the kind of personality that
> Philbin wants on the team. He has clearly shown
> that talented but troubled players have no place
> on his roster.

How do you even know that? How is Wallace troubled? Because he held out of training camp? All he did was try to get a long term deal instead of signing a one year RFA tender. It's not like he didn't earn a long term deal.

>
> Jennings, on the other hand, seems like the
> perfect fit even at the age of 30.

Perfect fit in Philbins offense? Yes. Does that mean he can rebound after two declining years? He had 366 yards this year and was the 5th or 6th option for a team that featured NO 1000 yard receivers.

He may be able to turn it around. If he does I hope it's in Miami.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Maybe Egnew and
> clay are poor blockers but they are the only ones
> who can catch and that have any dynamic play
> ability...yhat's why they should stick.

Which of Egnew's zero catches and 14 inactive games leads to to beleive he has "dynamic playmaking ability"? This guy looks to be a bust on the Pat Turner/Pat White scale (wait, White did make ONE play for us when he was on the team).

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Ken Wrote:
> >
> RE: Ok, then Fasano should be outright
> released...he dosen't do enough in the passing
> game so he's a liability to us. Maybe Egnew and
> clay are poor blockers but they are the only ones
> who can catch and that have any dynamic play
> ability...yhat's why they should stick. And you
> only carry both Egnew and Clay until the guy we
> draft either succeeds or fails.

Fasano is a free agent. He is not on the roster. He can't be outright released. And not enough in the passing game? He led our team in TD catches. He also led the team in TD catches in 2008, and he was second on the team in TD catches in '09, '10, and '11. This season, he had 0 drops for the entire year. While he is not a great receiving threat, he is a better than average all around TE. He is not a part of the problem.

Charles Clay had a ton of drops this year, and is not a pure TE. He was drafted as a FB/TE hybrid for Brian Daboll's offense, and he really may not have a future in Sherman's system. Egnew would not have even made the team if not for his draft status. Even when Clay got hurt, the team elected to play Mastrus at TE, and let Fasano fill the hybrid role rather than put Egnew in. Mizzou TEs have a history of being huge busts in the NFL, and Egnew could be headed down that same path.