I'm far from a detractor and hold out much hope that he'll be our QB when we hoist the Lombardi. For this year, I think teams simply caught up to him and our offense as a whole. Philbin/Sherman/Tannehill were new and unknown to an extent at the beginning of the season, and we just don't have the overall talent to surge past having been figured out.

I follow Omar Kelley's writing and - while I don't particularly like the parts of his personality he lets show through his writing/tweeting/etc - the thing he pointed out early was that Tannehill's teams last year at A&M seemed to get beaten in 2nd halves, either losing leads or not coming back from behind to win. He's had a number of chances this year and Seattle is the only win in that situation that I can recall. I do recognize that it's not just him, but that's the part that has me most concerned long-term.

I will say, though, that he doesn't give me the sinking feeling I got with Henne when you just knew no matter how much yardage you needed and with Marshall taking the lion's share of the coverage you were pretty much bound to come up short.

I've seen a number of deep passes by Tanny this year that the WR either dropped or couldn't run under. In each case, a speedy WR with good hands would have caught those. The good teams have guys like that.

As has been proven here for years, if you can't stretch the field your offense is going to be hampered, because it allows the defense compress the field of play. Before Sparano's last year we were blessed with great RBs (Ricky & Ronnie) that would be able to gain yards despite defenses playing 8-in-the-box against us. What a difference it makes without those guys. Also consider that, even with all his locker room issues, Brandon Marshall could still make amazing catches in traffic. He didn't need separation. So, for the last couple years Henne had at least one safety valve that he could go to almost every down. I really excited about what Tanny (and the team overall) will look like when paired with a great WR!

Unless Tanny can be like RGIII and make plays with his feet, he's not going to get any help at the end of games from the rest of the team (THIS YEAR). Tanny lacks that ability to put the entire team on his back and will them to win, but he's just as talented, if not more so, as many Superbowl winning QBs of the past.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've seen a number of deep passes by Tanny this
> year that the WR either dropped or couldn't run
> under. In each case, a speedy WR with good hands
> would have caught those. The good teams have guys
> like that.
>
> As has been proven here for years, if you can't
> stretch the field your offense is going to be
> hampered, because it allows the defense compress
> the field of play. Before Sparano's last year we
> were blessed with great RBs (Ricky & Ronnie) that
> would be able to gain yards despite defenses
> playing 8-in-the-box against us. What a
> difference it makes without those guys.

This is the exact same issue we had when Pennington was qb...but for a different reason. His lack of arm strength meant there were certain areas of the field they didnt have to defend. It meant they could compress our offense down to a smaller area on the field making it harder to be efficient.

Our current lack of speed gives us the same problem. We have to operate in a smaller box offensively. With less margin for error.

The adjustment teams have made with us is to rush 3 or 4 and drop 8 or 7 into coverage plugging up the passing lanes.

We don't have the oline to give Tannehill 4+ seconds to allow our wr's time to find holes in that scheme and we don't have the receivers with speed enough to get open consistently in the time our oline allows.

Unfortunately there just isn't a way to fix this in mid season.

I'm hoping that surrounding talent is by far the largest contributor to the issue. And I think there's a good chance that it is. Time will tell.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I've seen a number of deep passes by Tanny this
> > year that the WR either dropped or couldn't run
> > under. In each case, a speedy WR with good
> hands
> > would have caught those. The good teams have
> guys
> > like that.
> >
> > As has been proven here for years, if you can't
> > stretch the field your offense is going to be
> > hampered, because it allows the defense
> compress
> > the field of play. Before Sparano's last year
> we
> > were blessed with great RBs (Ricky & Ronnie)
> that
> > would be able to gain yards despite defenses
> > playing 8-in-the-box against us. What a
> > difference it makes without those guys.
>
> This is the exact same issue we had when
> Pennington was qb...but for a different reason.
> His lack of arm strength meant there were certain
> areas of the field they didnt have to defend. It
> meant they could compress our offense down to a
> smaller area on the field making it harder to be
> efficient.
>
> Our current lack of speed gives us the same
> problem. We have to operate in a smaller box
> offensively. With less margin for error.
>
> The adjustment teams have made with us is to rush
> 3 or 4 and drop 8 or 7 into coverage plugging up
> the passing lanes.
>
> We don't have the oline to give Tannehill 4+
> seconds to allow our wr's time to find holes in
> that scheme and we don't have the receivers with
> speed enough to get open consistently in the time
> our oline allows.
>
> Unfortunately there just isn't a way to fix this
> in mid season.

*******************************************************

As much as I agree with you, Truth, and many others on this board, that RT needs a speed guy to help open up the offense, to be honest, he has missed on quite a few opportunities. That is on him!

But....as I have been saying over and over, next year will tell us what RT is all about (and of course, hopefully Ireland will have gotten us that super wide receiver).

We also must remember that despite not getting enough time to allow his receivers to (finally) get open, it is still on the QB to get rid of the ball. Your OLine can't keep them out for 4 seconds? Then let that ball go at 3 seconds. The QB knows where those receivers are supposed to be.

This is also on Sherman. If these plays just aren't working, for whatever reason, then get some plays that will work and fit the skill-set that your playmakers have.

These problems are on the whole offense, from Ireland to Philbin, to RT, and the rest of the O.

As far as our receivers not being able to get open....that's where the change in the offensive philosophy comes in. Bess and Hartline are both pretty quick; get rid of the ball with a 1- or 3-step drop. Utilize Bush as a receiver more. Miller has the speed; get him on the outside.

It just doesn't seem as tho the offensive play calling is very diverse. My opinion only, but it doesn't seem as if Philbin/Sherman are using the talent they have to the fullest.

Some of it is correctable right now (Truth), but the down-the-field pass plays are not correctable right now. Can't correct it unless you have a guy with speed.

Next year!

There seems to be some misconception that other elite QBs regularly make a handful "Eli Manning in the Super Bowl" throws on the last drive to win the football game, which just isn't true. Nearly every game winning drive I see involves the QB finding wide open receivers who bust big gains up the middle, or fantastic toe-tapping sideline catches...both of which are heavily dependent upon the receivers finding open space or making plays.

The Dolphins just do not get separation, and our receivers do not make plays. You can not expect a rookie QB to go win football games in the 4th quarter by driving 80 yards and throwing balls into windows the size of a pinhole, all with dreadful passing protection.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> As much as I agree with you, Truth, and many
> others on this board, that RT needs a speed guy to
> help open up the offense, to be honest, he has
> missed on quite a few opportunities. That is on
> him!


You are right. He has. but he's a rookie and if you look at HOW he's missing you can see its not a major correction required on his part to improve.

Just in the last game or two...missed Moore and Matthews on deep routs by half a stride. Both guys were held up. One got a penalty one didn't.

He missed Tannehill deep off his right hand. 5o yard throw...off by a foot.

Its not like he's missing these guys out of bounds by 5 yards. He's off by a hair on most instances. Usually that is correctable mechanically or merely with more experience as you get comfortable.

the one thing he isn't doing when he goes deep is throwing jump balls. Which is no small thing.

He rarely gives the DB a shot a a pick when he goes deep. That's a very encouraging trait in a young QB.






>
> But....as I have been saying over and over, next
> year will tell us what RT is all about (and of
> course, hopefully Ireland will have gotten us that
> super wide receiver).


I agree. Assuming we don't go into next year with the exact same receiving corps we have this year then I expect major improvement in several areas of concern.



>
> We also must remember that despite not getting
> enough time to allow his receivers to (finally)
> get open, it is still on the QB to get rid of the
> ball. Your OLine can't keep them out for 4
> seconds? Then let that ball go at 3 seconds. The
> QB knows where those receivers are supposed to be.
>

Actually I think he's doing a fairly good job of getting the ball out.

Considering he has to wait longer for our WR's to get into their patterns, and even longer for them to get open against 7 or 8 defenders. And that our oline is having a hard time giving the WR's the extra time they routinely need, Tannehill is still only averaging 1 INT a game and taking two sacks.

Its a catch 22 situation for him though. Our WR's need 4 seconds to get open down field and our O-line is struggling to give him 3 second to throw...even against 3-4 man rushes.

Its one thing to know where the WR's are supposed to be its another for them to actually be there and be open.


>
> This is also on Sherman. If these plays just
> aren't working, for whatever reason, then get some
> plays that will work and fit the skill-set that
> your playmakers have.
>


I agree. You don't have to change your system but you do need to adapt it to give your players the best chance to succeed with their skill sets.

Although in Sherman's defense...this is year 1 in this system and there's still a lot of learning and fine tuning to be done by the staff and the players.



> These problems are on the whole offense, from
> Ireland to Philbin, to RT, and the rest of the O.
>
> As far as our receivers not being able to get
> open....that's where the change in the offensive
> philosophy comes in. Bess and Hartline are both
> pretty quick; get rid of the ball with a 1- or
> 3-step drop. Utilize Bush as a receiver more.
> Miller has the speed; get him on the outside.


I thought we'd see more of that lineup. Bush in the slot...Miller at RB.

We did start with a lot of 3 steps drops early in the year but that lead to a lot of deflected passes so they adjusted.




>
> It just doesn't seem as tho the offensive play
> calling is very diverse. My opinion only, but it
> doesn't seem as if Philbin/Sherman are using the
> talent they have to the fullest.


I think they've dumbed things down this year a bit. New system. New rookie QB.


>
> Some of it is correctable right now (Truth), but
> the down-the-field pass plays are not correctable
> right now. Can't correct it unless you have a guy
> with speed.
>
> Next year!


Amen...


Give me TWO wr's with speed. Push Hartline to the #3 and Bess to the #4 and watch what happens when those guys are going up against Nickle and Dime backs instead of the teams top 2 CB's every week.

I would like to have a slot receiver that has speed or the ability to make a big play. Welker is not fast but he makes big plays. Bess is solid but has never been a play maker. He get's some nice 3rd down conversions but that's about it.

As much as I like him, I wouldn't mind getting a draft pick out of him. He is a FA in 2014 and already makes 3 mil a year( cap hit).

That being said, give me a fast and quick slot guy, seam threat TE, Hartline as the #2 and a new deep threat.

Hartline has the speed (most say deceptive speed) and will do better when coverage is rolled away from him. I don't want to see him pushed to a #3 after posting a thousand yard season. He is improving as we had all hoped. He's very smart and has good hands and he's tough.

That may be asking for a lot (3 positions to fill) but it should be our goal IMO.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

The answer to all of our woes is a #1 WR.

With an Andre Johnson, or Crabtree, or Megatron the field gets stretched and their is more room for the slot & TE to make plays.

If you can't burn them deep? They sit on the middle routes.

Draft and sign a true burner and Bess becomes our Welker.

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The answer to all of our woes is a #1 WR.
>
> With an Andre Johnson, or Crabtree, or Megatron
> the field gets stretched and their is more room
> for the slot & TE to make plays.
>
> If you can't burn them deep? They sit on the
> middle routes.
>
> Draft and sign a true burner and Bess becomes our
> Welker.

Precisely realist.

Two more receivers and we can dictate to defenses instead of having them compress the field on us.

Then we'll find out if Tannehill is the goods or not.

I don't think I can buy that one. Welker is much quicker and shiftier than Bess. I don't see Bess ever being a receiver that is going to be in the top 5 for leading the NFL in receptions/ yards for 5-6 years.

Bess already is our Welker. Just a poor mans version though.

Bess (5'10 190) ran a 4.28 short shuttle
Welker (5'9 190) ran a 4.01 short shuttle.

I don't see the quickness from Bess. He doesn't get the separation that Welker does.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

You didn't intend to, but you cracked me up eesti when you said, "Bess already is our Welker. Just a poor mans version though."

Welker USED TO BE our Welker. He was doing the same damn thing for us as he has been doing for Brady.


Clutch is his middle name and it was for us, we should have done EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE NOT TO LET HIM GO and I said so at the time.