THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It does not matter who you have at WR when the
> > receviers all run 5 yard routes and the time
> they
> > do go deep the QB can't hit them.
>
>
> Yes you are right.
>
> Our WR's are AWESOME...top to bottom best 5 in the
> league.
>
> Now all we need to do is get a QB and an OC who
> know how to make uyse of them.
>
> maybe we can bring back Chad Henne and Dan Henning
> for next year???

*************************************************

Our WRs just don't have the speed. Now, when our guys do get open downfield, we all expect our QB to them. Regrettably, RT missed Hartline twice last week. That just can't happen. RT MUST get better in that category, and quickly. (He has hit some deep passes this year, so we all know he can do it).

As I have said, next year is the year to give RT a true grade, not this year.

Hartline has proven he is a very good WR; Bess is great with the underneath routes. Now we just need someone with burners that could really open it up.

RT will have the offseason to work with these guys.

I have faith that RT is Miami's future.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trade down????
>
> And rely on picking up garbage out of the free
> agency market?

*****************************************************

Unless that "can't miss" guy is there when Miami's turn comes up, yeah, trade down is the best option, but not too far down.

Otherwise, it's the best player available in the first round, then after that the BPA at position of need.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Trade down????
> >
> > And rely on picking up garbage out of the free
> > agency market?
>
> **************************************************
> ***
>
> Unless that "can't miss" guy is there when Miami's
> turn comes up, yeah, trade down is the best
> option, but not too far down.
>
> Otherwise, it's the best player available in the
> first round, then after that the BPA at position
> of need.


That's exactly right Cap.

The difference between the 15th pick and the 50th pick is a lot smaller than the difference between the top five and the 15th pick.

If you don't have a homerun on your board you trade down and add picks. More picks gives you more chances to hit on players.

If there's a player there you strongly believe in, then take him.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That's exactly right Cap.
>
> The difference between the 15th pick and the 50th
> pick is a lot smaller than the difference between
> the top five and the 15th pick.
>
> If you don't have a homerun on your board you
> trade down and add picks. More picks gives you
> more chances to hit on players.
>
> If there's a player there you strongly believe in,
> then take him.

RESPONSE: It is true that the draft is a lottery in a manner of speaking and that WR is probably harder to project to the pros than any other position.

That being said, however, look what the free agency market has done for, just us, Brandon Marshall and Chad Ochocinco.

If not garbage in talent, garbage in attitude.

But when THE Truth says that "If there's a player there you strongly believe in, then you take him," that's true.

The problem is that it is so true, it is what you call a "truism" like saying water is wet.

I don't think ANYONE is advocating or would ever sensibly advocate that anyone would EVER spend a first round draft choice on someone they did NOT STRONGLY BELIEVE IN under any circumstance.

The real difference between THE Truth and I is probably that if Keenan Allen is not there when we pick, which we both said we would draft in the first round, then what???????????

I would, RATHER THAN TRADE DOWN, go for a pass rushing defensive lineman worth that number 13 pick IF HE WERE AVAILABLE LIKE Kawaan Short, Purdue.

If no PASS RUSHING DEFENSIVE LINEMAN worth the pick were available, THEN I'D GO FOR JOSH JOHNSON, CORNERBACK FROM PURDUE.

The problem with our team today is that we have a bunch of "also rans."

A good team is one that has strengths throughout the lineup.

And quite frankly, the only good thing you can get from the free agency market is when a guy is at the top of his game and his contract runs out (and he is NOT FRANCHISED) AND THAT IS UNUSUAL AND YOU simply get him in a newsmaking bidding war.

Otherwise, you are just getting somebody else's garbage as Brandon Marshall proved to be.

I expect depending on our FA signings, we will choose from:


Bjoern Werner(if high enough and still there)
Dion Jordan
Tayor Lewan
Keenan Allen
Dee Milliner
Ezekial Ansah(The next JPP?)
Barrett Jones
Demontre Moore

Depending on where we choose and if the draft shapes up with all the blue chippers gone then I would trade down and grab Tyler Eifert, TE from Notre Dame.

If we are able to land a blue chipper with our first pick then I may even trade up to land him anyway.

You know what they say. A TE is a Qb's best friend.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I go for a blue chip WR in round #1. If there is none available when we pick, then I go for a blue chip TE. Then LB/DE/CB/S/OL/RB/ in that order.

and I do the same in rounds #2 and #3. After that, it's BPA the rest of the draft.

We simply have to add highly talented skill players and highly talented support/potential starter type players.

I think we have a better shot getting immediate production from a top TE as opposed to a WR.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > That's exactly right Cap.
> >
> > The difference between the 15th pick and the
> 50th
> > pick is a lot smaller than the difference
> between
> > the top five and the 15th pick.
> >
> > If you don't have a homerun on your board you
> > trade down and add picks. More picks gives you
> > more chances to hit on players.
> >
> > If there's a player there you strongly believe
> in,
> > then take him.
>
> RESPONSE: It is true that the draft is a lottery
> in a manner of speaking and that WR is probably
> harder to project to the pros than any other
> position.
>
> That being said, however, look what the free
> agency market has done for, just us, Brandon
> Marshall and Chad Ochocinco.
>
> If not garbage in talent, garbage in attitude.
>
> But when THE Truth says that "If there's a player
> there you strongly believe in, then you take him,"
> that's true.
>
> The problem is that it is so true, it is what you
> call a "truism" like saying water is wet.
>
> I don't think ANYONE is advocating or would ever
> sensibly advocate that anyone would EVER spend a
> first round draft choice on someone they did NOT
> STRONGLY BELIEVE IN under any circumstance.
>
> The real difference between THE Truth and I is
> probably that if Keenan Allen is not there when we
> pick, which we both said we would draft in the
> first round, then what???????????
>
> I would, RATHER THAN TRADE DOWN, go for a pass
> rushing defensive lineman worth that number 13
> pick IF HE WERE AVAILABLE LIKE Kawaan Short,
> Purdue.
>
> If no PASS RUSHING DEFENSIVE LINEMAN worth the
> pick were available, THEN I'D GO FOR JOSH JOHNSON,
> CORNERBACK FROM PURDUE.
>
> The problem with our team today is that we have a
> bunch of "also rans."
>
> A good team is one that has strengths throughout
> the lineup.
>
> And quite frankly, the only good thing you can get
> from the free agency market is when a guy is at
> the top of his game and his contract runs out (and
> he is NOT FRANCHISED) AND THAT IS UNUSUAL AND YOU
> simply get him in a newsmaking bidding war.
>
> Otherwise, you are just getting somebody else's
> garbage as Brandon Marshall proved to be.

****************************************************

Chyren, I can't speak for Truth, but I "believe" what he was saying was if that player you truly believe in is there, then you take him; if not, trade down. Much of it depends on where in the draft a team is drafting.

If Miami is in the top 10, then there is a really strong possibility that Miami will be able to get the guy they really want, that (hopefully) superstar, blue-chip prospect. Now, if their top convictions are not there, then they will look to trade down. Why draft a guy you hope will be "the guy?"

If Miami is drafting in the 20s, then it is probable that Miami will get the best player on the board.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the season ended today we would be picking 13th
> I believe. (Was vs NYG tonight)
>
> Here is the draft order as of today assuming
> 13th...and a quick mock.
>
> 1 KC Geno Smith, QB
> 2 Jax Star Lotulelei, NT
> 3 Phi Luke Joeckel
> 4 Oak Manti Teo, MLB, LT
> 5 Car Jarvis Jones, DE
> 6 Ten Jonathon Hankins, DT
> 7 SD Dee Miliner, CB
> 8 Det Bjoern Werner, DE
> 9 Cle Barkevious Mingo, OLB,DE
> 10 AZ Taylor Lewan, OT
> 11 NYJ Sam Montgomery, DE
> 12 NO Jonathon Jenkins, DT
> 13 Mia...take your pick...
>
> Keenan Allen WR
> Demontre Moore DE
> Jonathon Banks CB
>
> Once again we are on the outside looking in at the
> top tier talent
>
> I believe we are now picking 9th. 8th if Detroit
> beats GB tonight. At least we can dream a little
> bigger now....
>
> 1 KC Geno Smith, QB
> 2 Jax Star Lotulelei, NT
> 3 Oak Manti Teo, MLB, LT
> 4 Car Jarvis Jones, DE
> 5 Phi Luke Joeckel
> 6 Ten Jonathon Hankins, DT
> 7 SD Dee Miliner, CB
> 8 Det Bjoern Werner, DE
> 9 Mia...take your pick...
>
> BPA....
>
> Barkevious Mingo, OLB,DE
> Taylor Lewan, OT
> Jonathon Jenkins, DT
> Sam Montgomery, DE
> Keenan Allen WR
> Demontre Moore DE
> Jonathon Banks CB
>
> Let's hope Detroit wins tonight and we could
> possibly have our choice of higher rated players
> (so far) Taylor Lewan, Bark Mingo or Bjoern
> Werner...among others.
>
> If SD wins next week we have a shot at Dee Miliner
> while picking 7th. There is just no offensive
> talent worth a high pick (top 10) this year. We
> also gain 200 points of draft value (300 if SD
> wins). More trading power.
>
> Wow this is a top heavy draft for defense.



One of the pass rushers (mingo, montgomery or moore)
or
Taylor Lewan, OT

Might be a good draft to drop down and get 2 late firsts or s first & second and try to nab 4 out of the following in the first 2:



Keenen Allen
Tavon Austin
Robert Woods
Terrence Williams
Justin Hunter
Stedman Bailey
Tyler Eifert
Eddie Lacy
Stepfan Taylor


TJ McDonald
Ezekial Ansah
Sam Montgomery
Dave Amerson
Desmond Trufant
Bacarri Rambo
Robert Lester









Then sign Mike Wallace & Jerod Cook & Chris Ivory

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the pass rushers (mingo, montgomery or
> moore)
> or Taylor Lewan, OT
>
> Do you still like Bjorne? at 8?


Yes.

Love that kids game.

I'm almost as high on Werner as I was on JJ Watt and Robert Quinn a few years ago.

I think he and Wake will terrorize QB's in Coyle's 4-3.

dammit no more OL in the first round!!!!

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Don't ignore Kawaan Short, DT Purdue. or Josh Johnson, CB Purdue.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dammit no more OL in the first round!!!!

It has too be BPA. Besides, drafting a Tackle in the first is a hell of a lot cheaper than signing a FA. Would you rather tie up 20-25% of the cap on a FA tackle? or spend that money on a stud FA WR?

AND....there is no offensive talent rated for the top 10 this year. Jury still out on the WR from Cal. He had 737 yards this year and 6 td's in 9 games. Coming off of an injured knee (PCL). He had 1-100 yard game this year against Washington State.

Justin Hunter also coming off injury (ACL surgery) from 2011 seems to have lost explosiveness.

Woods has been overshadowed by a sophomore.

No AJ Greens or Calvin Johnson's in this draft.

I would still try and trade down for the Notre Dame TE and an OT (late round)...assuming we add a stud WR in FA.

If we can't trade and have a shot at the 7th pick I would go for the CB from Alabama or Bjorne Werner, DE.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Of course it is weak at WR.

Well we moved up 3 spots. We are picking 10th as of now.

1 Jax Geno Smith, QB
2 KC Matt Barkley, QB
3 Oak Jarvis Jones, DE
4 Car Star Lotulelei, NT
5 Det Bjoern Werner, DE
6 Phi Luke Joeckel LT
7 Ten Manti Teo, MLB,
8 Buf Keenan Allen WR
9 SD Dee Miliner, CB
10 Mia...take your pick...

BPA....
Jonathon Hankins, DT
Barkevious Mingo, OLB,DE
Taylor Lewan, OT
Sam Montgomery, DE
Demontre Moore DE
Jonathon Banks CB

Trade Down for Miami.

I bet KC would like to trade out of that #2 spot.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Miami should truly consider trading their 1st Rd pick this year for a 1st Rd'r next year, that way, we have 2 1st's and are in a great position to move up in Next year's draft to select DE Jadeveon Clowney....he will be worth everything! In the 2nd Rd, we still can get some good players this year..

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dammit no more OL in the first round!!!!
>
> It has too be BPA. Besides, drafting a Tackle in
> the first is a hell of a lot cheaper than signing
> a FA. Would you rather tie up 20-25% of the cap on
> a FA tackle? or spend that money on a stud FA WR?
>
> AND....there is no offensive talent rated for the
> top 10 this year. Jury still out on the WR from
> Cal. He had 737 yards this year and 6 td's in 9
> games. Coming off of an injured knee (PCL). He had
> 1-100 yard game this year against Washington
> State.
>
> Justin Hunter also coming off injury (ACL surgery)
> from 2011 seems to have lost explosiveness.
>
> Woods has been overshadowed by a sophomore.
>
> No AJ Greens or Calvin Johnson's in this draft.
>
> I would still try and trade down for the Notre
> Dame TE and an OT (late round)...assuming we add a
> stud WR in FA.
>
> If we can't trade and have a shot at the 7th pick
> I would go for the CB from Alabama or Bjorne
> Werner, DE.

*********************************************

I understand what you are saying about drafting another OL in the first, but....if Miami trades down and a top-notch OL is there, then I could understand it (if that playmaker isn't there). But, if it is in the top 15 picks, then definitely no; no OL drafted here. Must get the best player available.

I also always say BPA, Cap.

But I don't leave it that short.

I say "BPAAPON" Best player available at a position of need.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also always say BPA, Cap.
>
> But I don't leave it that short.
>
> I say "BPAAPON" Best player available at a
> position of need.


No, you usually say "BPA.........that played in West Lafayette"

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course it is weak at WR.


I don't think the draft is weak at WR so much as it just doesn't have a "can't miss" guy or two at the top.

From what I've seen so far I think the WR class is fairly strong where we expect to be shopping for WR's (like Green Bay) in the 2nd-4th rounds.

I like the players that have been coming out of Baylor lately. I think Terrence Williams is going to be a beast. 1,764 yards on 95 receptions with 12 touchdowns WITHOUT RG3. He may elevate if he can run in the 4.4's at the combine. 6'3 205. Great red zone target.

I almost like Hunter but WR's from Tennessee scare me...and not in a good way.

What do you think about getting Welker back in 2013? The Pats don't want to pay him anything and he will be a lot cheaper than Wallace who wants 8 digits a year.

Sign Welker and draft Terrence Williams AND Tyler Eifert with a trade down to pick up an extra pick.

This means Bess takes a back seat. He is not in Welkers league anyway. He actually runs after the catch as opposed to falling down.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the players that have been coming out of
> Baylor lately. I think Terrence Williams is going
> to be a beast. 1,764 yards on 95 receptions with
> 12 touchdowns WITHOUT RG3. He may elevate if he
> can run in the 4.4's at the combine. 6'3 205.
> Great red zone target.
>
> I almost like Hunter but WR's from Tennessee scare
> me...and not in a good way.
>
> What do you think about getting Welker back in
> 2013? The Pats don't want to pay him anything and
> he will be a lot cheaper than Wallace who wants 8
> digits a year.
>
> Sign Welker and draft Terrence Williams AND Tyler
> Eifert with a trade down to pick up an extra
> pick.
>
> This means Bess takes a back seat. He is not in
> Welkers league anyway. He actually runs after the
> catch as opposed to falling down.


I like Williams as well. I think he could be the best WR in this class, although I think Keenan Allen is as good a fit for our scheme as we could hope for and he's also extremely talented.

I'm not a Hunter fan either. Ditto Robert Woods from USC.

I'd prefer to use that 1st round pick on a pass rusher or stud
LT (to replace Long).

I have a feeling we'll get shut out on the elite defensive guys, and that Joekel will be gone.

If that's the case I'd like to trade down.

We can still fill a need with a RT, G, TE, OLB or WR late in the 1st AND add player or two in the 2nd-4th rounds to boot.

Yes. it will be interesting to see how the DE's shake out. There are about ten DE/34 OLB's ranked in 1st round (depending on who's list you believe).

Jarvis Jones, LB, Georgia
Damontre Moore, DE/OLB, Texas AM
Barkevious Mingo, DE/OLB, LSU
Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida St.
Sam Montgomery, DE, LSU
Dion Jordan, DE, Oregon
Alex Okafor, DE, Texas
Ezekiel Ansah, DE, BYU
Corey Lemonier, DE/OLB, Auburn

Any one of these guys could make a jump or fall after workouts. I am starting to hear a lot about Demontre Moore lately.

7 DE's were drafted in the first round last year and two or three have made a significant or immediate impact. They were the players taken at 15, 21 & 26.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I also always say BPA, Cap.
> >
> > But I don't leave it that short.
> >
> > I say "BPAAPON" Best player available at a
> > position of need.
>
>
> No, you usually say "BPA.........that played in
> West Lafayette"


BELLY BUSTER! You're right. You got me.