Poll

Shall we keep

Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
14 votes were received.

Both	7		50%
Neither	3		21%
Long only	4		29%
Carpenter only	0		0%

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Keep them both, neither, or one but not the other?

I was surprised to see negative sentiment about these gents on the board. Should we keep either.

Vote now. I shall not vote until later.

I'm a little disappointed with LONG's play. His energy level seems to be off and it's reflected in the number of Ends getting to "The Kid." He needs to step up his game. I would say retain him--re-sign him for 3 years--trade him if he's falling below an "A" caliber player.

As for Carpenter--I'd watch him closely and see if he can get back on track with his distance and accuracy. If not, I'd start the hunt for a better kicker.

So, at this this point my survey vote is "keep both."

I don't know what's up with Long. Maybe he is getting lazy. He sure looked flabby when they showed him in hard knocks running next to Incognito (who was also flabby).

I remember a few years ago how the scoop was that he eliminated body fat percentage and was supposed to be looking like a stud with hardly any fat. No the case right now.

He has allowed an average of 4 sacks a year through his first 4 years and has given up 3 in 4 games this year.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Long's coming off a bad shoulder injury. Based on his history, he deserves some time to recover and acclimate to the new offense. Remember, with no WR's, this is a rebuilding year anyway. Evaluate him at the end of the season and negotiate a contract based on his performance this year.

Carpenter needs to be gone sooner than later.

Carpenter was one-for-two yesterday and now is 11-for-27 on FG's over 44 yards since 2010. Why is he here again?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

My opinion could change as the season plays out, but I would probably concur with colonel. See if he can be had for a reasonable 3-year contract which would be short enough to allow him to play for one more big contract if he regains elite form. If he balks, I'd be tempted to let him walk rather than overpaying or even matching Joe Thomas money. LT has been devalued as a position.

Right now, Carpenter would be on an extremely short leash with me. He needs to get his poop in a group and not miss another game winner all season long.

I didn't vote because I would rather wait until the season plays out, but I could easily see a scenario where the answer is 'neither'.

Here's a different perspective - how many more games do we need to lose by 3 or fewer points where Carpenter has missed one or more makeable FGs? I'm not agains the guy personally or anything, but the way football is the guys who gut it out on the field deserve wins much more often than not when they put the kicker in a position to bring home the win. Not my rules...just the way it is...not much middle ground for kickers in the game.

The league average so far this year is 89% FG conversion rate...he's hitting on 60%. He's 33% over 40 yards and prior to last week his longest FG was 41.

I hesitate a bit on Long because chemistry on the line is important. Kickers are pretty much plug & play, in my opinion. That said, I hope he turns it around and hits 90% of his kicks the rest of the season.

Also, I'm not sure I'm tracking on his MVP season last year. He has stats listed in 5 of our wins. Of those games, 3 we would have won without any of the FG he made (judging just based upon total points scored in the end...not on swings of momentum mid-game or anything) and in another 1 he was 3/3 on kicks of 20-29 yards (i.e. should be automatic kicks) and we won by 7 points. In the final game against the Jests he was clutch - 4/4 all from 40+ yards. That said, we lost to CLE earlier in the year 17-16 and he missed one from beyond 50 yards.

Get rid of Carpenter. Nobody likes to see it, he seems a decent guy but it happens, kickers lose confidence and fall apart. Save for a couple of missed field goals this team is 4-1 instead of 2-3. Long I'm not sure about yet. He is coming off an injury and that could be the reason he seems out of shape. He is still a good Left Tackle IMO. That said, does ANYONE still think this guy was worth a #1 overall pick . One of the DUMBEST moves of the Parcells/Sparano/Ireland era.

Wow 6 people agree with me. Long with only one hand is better than anything else we have on this OL.


I would like to see some of the other phin OLman play with just one shoulder.

Make that 10 people

KB Wrote:
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> Get rid of Carpenter. Nobody likes to see it, he
> seems a decent guy but it happens, kickers lose
> confidence and fall apart. Save for a couple of
> missed field goals this team is 4-1 instead of
> 2-3.

People would be bored by me stating again where I think the responsibility for those two losses lie but still no one has answered me about who we get to replace him, particularly in mid season.

Now if I am wrong and you guys mean get rid of him at the end of the year then ok but if that's the case, let's see for the rest of the year.

But I think you guys are talking about right now.

If that's true, being 2-3 with 2 overtime losses does say ONE INDISPUTABLE THING, and that is that this team is good enough to go to the playoffs given the fact that that only undisputed loss is

1) one of the two unbeaten teams in the league

2) was at the start of the season when our team was the weakest and without question played its worst game.

Since this is all true, does it really seem wise to get rid of this guy RIGHT NOW and risk bringing in someone who might be worse????

Remember, we are not just talking about an ordinary kicker but one who many of you concede was not only good but great in his day.

He was known as being one of the best long distance kickers.

Nurture his self confidence or play "rough guy" like Ireland did when asking players if their mother was a crack whore and "dump him" without having the slightest clue of what would be the value of his replacement or even WHO would be his replacement.

You guys need to stop sitting behind your keyboard and getting your jollies out of firing players because all said and done, they are the players and not us.

Now we are FAR more qualified to criticize coaching than we are to criticize players although we may be very poorly equipped to criticize coaching but players...............????

KB Wrote:
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> Get rid of Carpenter. Nobody likes to see it, he
> seems a decent guy but it happens, kickers lose
> confidence and fall apart. Save for a couple of
> missed field goals this team is 4-1 instead of
> 2-3. Long I'm not sure about yet. He is coming
> off an injury and that could be the reason he
> seems out of shape. He is still a good Left
> Tackle IMO. That said, does ANYONE still think
> this guy was worth a #1 overall pick . One of
> the DUMBEST moves of the Parcells/Sparano/Ireland
> era.

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Get rid of Carpenter AFTER someone else comes in and beats him out. Carpenter is a good kicker, but what his problem is at the moment, I don't know. If he can't get himself out of this "slump" then it is time to bring in some challengers. I would not dump Carpenter until someone can beat him out.

Long? Still pretty solid on the left side. Good LTs are hard to find. Once you have one, hold on to him until things just get out of hand, i.e., becomes "Columbo" and lets people go right by him, becomes a hinderance in the run game, or his performance no longer matches his salary. That is where Miami is going to have to do some serious thinking once the season is over.

However, trying to trade Long would be very difficult, mainly because of his salary. Long would (definitely) not bring a #1 or #2 draft pick. I could see a 3rd rounder.

But again, unless Long's skills went right out the window, I would hold on to him. New contract time is when I would seriously consider letting him go, unless he would agree to a reasonable dollar amount.

Like I said in the Project Big Phase 6 thread "But all that said, you don't just CUT Long. You see what his contract demands are and you work him in if you can and let him go if you must."

I think Long is adjusting to a zone blocking scheme and the system. Before Long was normally one on one with the teams best pass rusher, no he has to make read to block an area. When he has got beat this year on pass rush, it seems due to confusion about who to block or 2 guys stunt him and he gets caught in no mans land between them and winds up late to the spot... Long is still a beast and a major leader of this team.. We took care of him before, it will be nice if he signs a home town discount...If not, I would still franchise him a year, if we are willing to franchise Paul SOlia a year we should be willing to franchise Jake IMO... We have plenty of money next year from what has been reported, it will be hard to spend all the cap space... I bet we resign most everyone, starks, Hartline, Long, Bush, Smith and maybe cut Dansby and draft that postion early..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche