mike vanderjacgt was a great kicker once too. then he totally choked a game winning kick in the playoffs and was never heard from again. kickers are totally disposable, and when they lose it, move on. look what happened to billy cundiff. he was a pro bowl kicker, blew the ravens chance at the SB, and now is hanging on for dear life to remain in the league week to week with the redskins

I don't care what carpenter did for us 2 years ago. if he misses another big kick, see ya

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Yeah but you gotta start with a NEW kicker, either bring back Jay Feeley, or Olindo Mare or take a chance on a new guy who might not be as good himself. Too many other needs and concerns. Let's make sure Carpenter really sucks and not that the coaches kept putting him in ridiculous positions.

i am all for giving carpenter another game, but if he misses again we need to move on.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Oh dear sammie, did I rattle your cage sweetie?

Point is you obviously don't know crap about football if you think Long is the best OL player we have (seriously, that's laughable in the real world right now). And of course it seems you didn't bother to actually watch the tape and SEE what's really going down in the real world right now?

You have an "opinion" based on some man crush (??) on Jake Long rather than just facing the facts the dude has been on the steady decline for several years already. And now that we're asking our OL to be more athletic he's totally EXPOSED for all the noted shortcomings many had him tagged for coming out of college.

The difference now is that he doesn't have his power game anymore so we're left with a BIG stiff non-athletic slow-footed plodder (Sloth#2?) at LT who's getting beat around the corner routinely. And when he scrambles to over-protect his flank he's getting killed on the inside move (which Incognito is saving his ass on). The tape doesn't lie yahoo so just watch it and try to be a little objective before you knee-jerk react with some homer crap about "Long being our best OL. "

Just watch the tape. It's that freaking obvious. Bottom line, Jake Long is now the weakest (!!!) player we have on the OL. Hey, I wish he was a "great athlete." And I wish he was playing top-shelf football. But it ain't happening. So it seems highly logical we'll look at Martin @LT and grab a RT next draft. Based on Long's ACTUAL PLAY that will be a significant upgrade to our OL as it is right now.

Just watch the tape. Long needs help on every pass play. Is that what a great LT looks like? I don't think so. He's done. Stick him with a fork.

Wow! After reading that BNF, just tell me one thing, How did Jake Long possibly manage to weasel his way into the Pro Bowl?

Way OVER RATED and living off his reputation from 3 years ago...

BNF Point is you obviously don't know crap about football...


And you do Binksie?

Let me know when you go out and apply for a job for an NFL Team. In the mean time you are just another opinion here just like mine.

Which i completely disagree BTW.

You have your opinion and i have mines. And to me JAke LOng is the best OLMan we have. And yes even with one shoulder he is the best.

Now let me know when you are going to act like a man and discuss things in a civilized manner and not in a retarlike childish way.

Now go on little boy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/09/2012 04:42AM by samsam3738.

PFF...

On the other side, rookie Jonathan Martin (-0.5) had a lot more trouble. He wasn’t terrible by any stretch of the imagination, but he was bested in the run game by Geno Atkins in particular. One such play came at 9:57 in the second quarter, when the pro-bowl defensive tackle was able to get outside him and make a tackle for short gain. Despite his struggles in the run game, Martin was actually better than Long in pass protection, and gave up just the two hurries.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Martin was
> actually better than Long in pass protection, and
> gave up just the two hurries.

It's actually tough to compare RT to LT with a right-handed QB. There's a reason why it's called a "blind-side". A right-handed QB has better vision on the right side of the line and can adjust to reduce the rush from that side by looking off receivers, pump faking, rolling out, etc.. So, I'm wondering if this partly accounts for Martin looking better than Long.

If you look a little closer the numbers for both Tackles were very close. A hit and a hurry for Long and two hurries for Martin.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Not sure any of you follow other Fin chat boards but the subject of "Long" is
gaining serious traction since yours truly introduced the debate right here! Oh yea, BNF is always ahead on the curve! LOL.

Anyway. In all seriousness, I'm not the only Football da Vinci (i.e., village idiot) who can see Long's game on the Long steady de Cline.

In substantiation to what I was pointing out earlier... Consider the following players in their contract year (which Ireland seems to be behind the proverbial 8-ball on this one).

1) There are like ZERO WR's floating around. Hence Hartline is critical to retain.

2) There are ZERO up and coming shut down corners floating around. Hence Smith is critical to retain.

3) There are very-very few inside DL impact players. Hhence Starks is a top priority to resign.

4) All Reggie has done is be a consummate Pro for this franchise and produce IMPACT plays. Aand the dude has the best work ethic on the team and is a model team player.

Can you follow so far?

That leaves Herman Munster @RT. Oops. I mean the previously dominant power-game player and pharmaceutically enhanced footie baller named Jake.

Can you find a workable solution?

I sure can.

Martin to LT. And we draft a young stud for RT in R2 or R3.

See what a freaky football da Vinci I am!

So, if you had to part with one of the following players, WHO would it be. And more important, what's your plan to replace his PRODUCTION on the team in the NOW?

Critical players in their contract year:

Hartline
Smith
Reggie Bush
Starks
Long

BNF.

But all that said, you don't just CUT Long. You see what his contract demands are and you work him in if you can and let him go if you must. But when you make that determination, it is because of your other needs. Neither with him or with Carpenter, does it make sense to simply jerk the motor out of your car and throw it off the cliff before you even begin to price new ones or even look for old ones in the junkyard.

cutting long is not an option, his contract is up at the end of the year. no one is proposing to cut him in the middle of the year, that wouldn't make any sense at all

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But all that said, you don't just CUT Long. You
> see what his contract demands are and you work him
> in if you can and let him go if you must. But
> when you make that determination, it is because of
> your other needs. Neither with him or with
> Carpenter, does it make sense to simply jerk the
> motor out of your car and throw it off the cliff
> before you even begin to price new ones or even
> look for old ones in the junkyard.


Long is one of the highest paid LT's in the game, you think he's gonna take a paycut to stay here? He's gonna want a raise, no doubt in my mind. Sure, if he'd give the hometown discount, re-sign him, but I don't see that happening.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cutting long is not an option, his contract is up
> at the end of the year. no one is proposing to cut
> him in the middle of the year, that wouldn't make
> any sense at all


Cut was just the wrong word I used. What I meant was let him go. In this context, it means not meeting his contract terms and not being able to agree with him on any of our term we offer him. Yeah, just wrong word to use.

but chyren, unless we trade him in the middle of this season (can't see that happening) we have to let him go for nothing. I guess we could franchise him and then trade him but that doesn't seem likely

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Either let him go for nothing IF he has somewhere to go or come to terms with him ourselves.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure any of you follow other Fin chat boards
> but the subject of "Long" is
> gaining serious traction since yours truly
> introduced the debate right here! Oh yea, BNF is
> always ahead on the curve! LOL.
>
> Anyway. In all seriousness, I'm not the only
> Football da Vinci (i.e., village idiot) who can
> see Long's game on the Long steady de Cline.
>
> In substantiation to what I was pointing out
> earlier... Consider the following players in their
> contract year (which Ireland seems to be behind
> the proverbial 8-ball on this one).
>
> 1) There are like ZERO WR's floating around. Hence
> Hartline is critical to retain.
>
> 2) There are ZERO up and coming shut down corners
> floating around. Hence Smith is critical to
> retain.
>
> 3) There are very-very few inside DL impact
> players. Hhence Starks is a top priority to
> resign.
>
> 4) All Reggie has done is be a consummate Pro for
> this franchise and produce IMPACT plays. Aand the
> dude has the best work ethic on the team and is a
> model team player.
>
> Can you follow so far?
>
> That leaves Herman Munster @RT. Oops. I mean the
> previously dominant power-game player and
> pharmaceutically enhanced footie baller named
> Jake.
>
> Can you find a workable solution?
>
> I sure can.
>
> Martin to LT. And we draft a young stud for RT in
> R2 or R3.
>
> See what a freaky football da Vinci I am!
>
> So, if you had to part with one of the following
> players, WHO would it be. And more important,
> what's your plan to replace his PRODUCTION on the
> team in the NOW?
>
> Critical players in their contract year:
>
> Hartline
> Smith
> Reggie Bush
> Starks
> Long
>
> BNF.


Pipedream. It is a pipedream that we can let go of Long, move Martin to LT, draft a RT early, and maintain the same production from the OL. The plan is dependent on two young players developing quickly, of which one would have to develop to an all pro level. Incredibly unlikely and simply a pipedream.

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BigNastyFish Wrote:

> >
> > BNF.
>
>
> Pipedream. It is a pipedream that we can let go
> of Long, move Martin to LT, draft a RT early, and
> maintain the same production from the OL. The
> plan is dependent on two young players developing
> quickly, of which one would have to develop to an
> all pro level. Incredibly unlikely and simply a
> pipedream.


I couldnt agree more, a classic the grass is always greener, not appreciating what you have syndrome...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Times Three. As Dusty Springfield complains "wishin and hopin....."

it's not just long for a different player. it's long for a different player and millions and millions to spend on other players.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Still gotta replace him with someone of equal or at least in the same ball park comparable quality, berk. And that comment of mine has nothing to do with money. If you can use the money he is getting to plug that hole you are creating with little drop off in quality, good!

If, however, all you are doing is creating another need as well as the needs we have at WR, Secondary, Pass rushing, and maybe insurance at RB and TE, then why?

Like it's so easy to just draft a stud RT. How soon they forget Marc Columbo.

Re-signing Long will be a heck of a lot cheaper than the 2012 cap number because it can be spread out over the course of the contract. Numbers always go up in the later years.

Besides, we may have a lot of FA's in 2013 but we also will have around 50 million in cap space.

Jake Long (10 mil)
Randy Starks (5 mil)
Fasano (may be time to say goodbye)
Bush (definite resign. Class act, vet leader will prob take a discount)
Hartline (already working on contract)
Sean Smith (must have)
McDaniels ??
Chris Clemons ??

We should be keeping core players and be excited for a great draft.

CB, Hopefully Carroll keeps up the good play and we draft someone early. Marshall is a decent player but has a big contract.

WR/TE, We could still use another pass catcher

LDE, need a pass rusher to compliment Wake. not sure about Vernon yet and Odrick is looking to be a better fit at 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT.

Our line is set but we could use some depth and a future starter at LG.

Dansby has had a good year so far but it's the first year he is actually playing up to hi cap number. Too little too late IMO. We need to draft a stud we can get cheaper for a few years.

Impact FS...Clemons...serviceable but no play-making ability.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

BNF,

Your getting way too caught up in scheme and scouting reports from five years ago. Long is not a top notch athlete for an OL but he is more athletic than most. You don't have the success he has had with just being "juiced up". Superior players will be successful no matter the scheme and, to me, Long is a superior player when healthy. Obviously, this is where we will have to agree to disagree as you don't see Long as much more than a RT at this point.

One more thing, if we don't keep Long it will be due to $ not performance.

Only a MORON would cut long. Or let him go to free agency.

I was in line for a jake long autograph and i was last in line....Jake long was tired because he were practicing for a couple of hours.

When it was my turn jake long took a look at me and said to himself....

QUOTE: Ahhh well my hand is tired so this thick eyed glasses nerd can wait
until next time.

Jake long turned around and walked away so thats why the thick eyed glasses nerd has a thing for the best Right Tackle we have.