Hey,

congratulations on a great victory!

Didn't see the game but watched all the highlights...

Gotta say Thill is vastly surpassing what a "rookie" QB in the NFL is predictably about. The kid IS A PLAYER. Yes!

But...my (Project) biggest disappointment is the continuing POOR play by Jake (my feet are anchored in cement and I can't pass pro for) Long! This dude simply ain't a legit LT for a "west coast" O. No freaking way...

Do yourself a favor and just watch Thill's highlights in Dolphin.com and note how POOR Long is in pass pro...If he doesn't get help from Incognito on every other play he's toast. And specifically his foot work is like Herman Munster. By contrast watch Martin and you'll see a much more fluid athlete with good feet and superior balance/body position and (Project Big #1) is like in year 5 whereas Marin is a rook @ a new position!

Pouncy is simply amazing and Jerry is looking way better on his feet. But Long is pretty pathetic right now... Kudos to Incognito to saving Long's ass on pretty much every play!

Anyway... The athleticism of Thill helps a ton but I'd have to say our best LT is probably Martin. Long was always a better pro prospect @RT and I can't see where he's worth the $$$ a top shelf LT demands in the NFL. No ef-ing way right now...

I know we've invested HUGE in the OL via the draft but... I think we're a great pass pro LT and big-play (deep threat) WR away from a serious machine on O. On D we need a CB and more IMPPACT via the front 7.

Hence... I'd trade Long for an R1 in a heartbeat. And maybe unload him for an R2.

Thoughts?

BNF.

I know this may be blasphemy in Dolphin territory, but I think Martin may be outplaying Jake Long.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know this may be blasphemy in Dolphin territory,
> but I think Martin may be outplaying Jake Long.


r u freaking kidding???

Martin is VASTLY SUPERIOR to Long right now!

I hate to say it but Long is definitely the weak spot on our OL. It's NOT EVEN CLOSE!

All you have to do is watch the line play (especially pass pro).

...but hey... We gotta freaking QB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LT are easy by comparison!

BNF.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey,
>
> congratulations on a great victory!
>
> Didn't see the game but watched all the
> highlights...
>
> Gotta say Thill is vastly surpassing what a
> "rookie" QB in the NFL is predictably about. The
> kid IS A PLAYER. Yes!
>
> But...my (Project) biggest disappointment is the
> continuing POOR play by Jake (my feet are anchored
> in cement and I can't pass pro for) Long! This
> dude simply ain't a legit LT for a "west coast" O.
> No freaking way...
>
> Do yourself a favor and just watch Thill's
> highlights in Dolphin.com and note how POOR Long
> is in pass pro...If he doesn't get help from
> Incognito on every other play he's toast. And
> specifically his foot work is like Herman Munster.
> By contrast watch Martin and you'll see a much
> more fluid athlete with good feet and superior
> balance/body position and (Project Big #1) is like
> in year 5 whereas Marin is a rook @ a new
> position!
>
> Pouncy is simply amazing and Jerry is looking way
> better on his feet. But Long is pretty pathetic
> right now... Kudos to Incognito to saving Long's
> ass on pretty much every play!
>
> Anyway... The athleticism of Thill helps a ton but
> I'd have to say our best LT is probably Martin.
> Long was always a better pro prospect @RT and I
> can't see where he's worth the $$$ a top shelf LT
> demands in the NFL. No ef-ing way right now...
>
> I know we've invested HUGE in the OL via the draft
> but... I think we're a great pass pro LT and
> big-play (deep threat) WR away from a serious
> machine on O. On D we need a CB and more IMPPACT
> via the front 7.
>
> Hence... I'd trade Long for an R1 in a heartbeat.
> And maybe unload him for an R2.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> BNF.

I don't think Ireland has the balls to do it, and the team would probably mutiny. but I agree. I don't think Long is worth what it would take to sign him, and I'd be thrilled to trade him before the deadlinr for a first rounder. otherwise we could lose him for nothing

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Jake Long is very good at playing football regardless of scheme. Whether you would pay that kind of money to any OL is a different question but a few plays does not a season make. And Jake Long has been good this season if not as dominant as we are accustomed to seeing. He is not worth Joe Thomas money but I have a feeling Jake thinks he is. I'm guessing we end up franchising him, quietly exploring trades, and then agreeing on an extension.

One of the reasons it seems like Long is struggling is because any below average or even average play by Long sticks out in your mind as odd. The good plays you no longer even notice, while the opposite is currently true for Jerry and Martin. Now, I'm not saying Jake isn't having a bit of a down year but he is playing well overall. On the flip side, Pouncey is having a monster season.

Nope. Long has never been a top-shelf pass pro dude and now that his power game is gone he's totally exposed as a "juiced-up" plodder that is a RT in the NFL and nothing more.

That's just the facts.

Like I said watch the tape. It's pretty sad by any LT standard.

I'm on board to take some value and start fresh. I think he's been too banged up to command top dollar. I'd rather have someone younger and cheaper playing at 100% than Jake Long taking up a huge chunk of cap while constantly nursing an ailment and playing at 85-90%.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope. Long has never been a top-shelf pass pro
> dude and now that his power game is gone he's
> totally exposed as a "juiced-up" plodder that is a
> RT in the NFL and nothing more.
>
> That's just the facts.
>
> Like I said watch the tape. It's pretty sad by any
> LT standard.


This is absurd. Long's bread and butter has always been the run game but he is also known as a "top-shelf" pass pro LT. He has been known as slightly less athletic than most TOP LT, but there has been no knock on his pass pro skills because of this. He has been considered the best LT in the game for a few seasons. Opposing pass rushers always complain about him and he rarely gives up hurries. Perhaps, you need to review the tape of the past couple seasons.

There is no fact present, only your amateur opinion of watching, as you admit, the highlights from one game. Why don't you try watching, at the very least, the entire game before making such a strongly opinionated statement. Thanks.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm on board to take some value and start fresh. I
> think he's been too banged up to command top
> dollar. I'd rather have someone younger and
> cheaper playing at 100% than Jake Long taking up a
> huge chunk of cap while constantly nursing an
> ailment and playing at 85-90%.


I'm not totally against this strategy. However, I think it's more difficult to find a top OT than most realize. It's going to cost at least a high 2nd and there's no guarantee we get a projected 1st rounder (Martin) to drop to us again. And we all know what happens when you don't have two high quality OT (colombo). I'd rather not pay him top dollar but I'm not sure we have much leverage in this situation.

Once Long's wing broke (which was the same injury in college) he couldn't lift like he used to and his power game was gone. FYI: go back in time and you can chart his NFL arc based on that injury.

Also, if a kid is not fundamentally a great athlete (e.g. Pouncy) then his "weight game" can be taken away by the same mechanism that he got it from. Know what I mean?

Manufactured "athletes" (like Tony Mandarich for those who remember) always bust-out once the mechanism that made them starts to break them down.

Long will probably be a rapidly declining NFL player from here on out. But then again, he's already made his $$$millions so his chemistry bet paid off.

My opinion. Of course.

BNF



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2012 05:21PM by BigNastyFish.

dolphin1423 Wrote:

> This is absurd. Long's bread and butter has
> always been the run game but he is also known as a
> "top-shelf" pass pro LT. He has been known as
> slightly less athletic than most TOP LT, but there
> has been no knock on his pass pro skills because
> of this. He has been considered the best LT in
> the game for a few seasons. Opposing pass rushers
> always complain about him and he rarely gives up
> hurries. Perhaps, you need to review the tape of
> the past couple seasons.
>
> There is no fact present, only your amateur
> opinion of watching, as you admit, the highlights
> from one game. Why don't you try watching, at the
> very least, the entire game before making such a
> strongly opinionated statement. Thanks.


You obviously don't really understand NFL footie ball.

Jake Long is DONE!

See my other posts for why if you care to understand.

Next draft we take a RT and switch Martin to LT.

That's a guarantee.

Book it. And maybe you'll understand the "chemistry" behind the scenes.

And BTW. I'm like never wrong on these things. Ya know why?

Because it's obvious!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2012 05:17PM by BigNastyFish.

Prior to last year, Jake and Thomas were tit for tat the two best lt's in the league with everyone else battling for a distant third. Thats statistical fact not conjecture. Don't know how anyone can say he's never been a top shelf pass protector?

He may be damaged goods but a damaged Long is still better than 75% of the rest of the lt's in the league.

GBOFinFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He may be damaged goods but a damaged Long is
> still better than 75% of the rest of the lt's in
> the league.

I don't think so. Certainly NOT @LT and not the $$$ that position commands. Long is not a good fit in the future of this franchise and if (???) we could get a premium pick for him I'd do the deal and switch Martin to LT and draft a stud RT.

But to each his own. I'm just playing back-seat GM.

LOL.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphin1423 Wrote:
>
> > This is absurd. Long's bread and butter has
> > always been the run game but he is also known as
> a
> > "top-shelf" pass pro LT. He has been known as
> > slightly less athletic than most TOP LT, but
> there
> > has been no knock on his pass pro skills
> because
> > of this. He has been considered the best LT in
> > the game for a few seasons. Opposing pass
> rushers
> > always complain about him and he rarely gives
> up
> > hurries. Perhaps, you need to review the tape
> of
> > the past couple seasons.
> >
> > There is no fact present, only your amateur
> > opinion of watching, as you admit, the
> highlights
> > from one game. Why don't you try watching, at
> the
> > very least, the entire game before making such
> a
> > strongly opinionated statement. Thanks.
>
>
> You obviously don't really understand NFL footie
> ball.
>
> Jake Long is DONE!
>
> See my other posts for why if you care to
> understand.
>
> Next draft we take a RT and switch Martin to LT.
>
> That's a guarantee.
>
> Book it. And maybe you'll understand the
> "chemistry" behind the scenes.
>
> And BTW. I'm like never wrong on these things. Ya
> know why?
>
> Because it's obvious!

With all the glaring needs (wr, cb, s, wr, de, wr) you think we spend a high pick on another ol? And you think its an obvious pick? What color is the turf at your footie ball games?

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphin1423 Wrote:
>
> > This is absurd. Long's bread and butter has
> > always been the run game but he is also known as
> a
> > "top-shelf" pass pro LT. He has been known as
> > slightly less athletic than most TOP LT, but
> there
> > has been no knock on his pass pro skills
> because
> > of this. He has been considered the best LT in
> > the game for a few seasons. Opposing pass
> rushers
> > always complain about him and he rarely gives
> up
> > hurries. Perhaps, you need to review the tape
> of
> > the past couple seasons.
> >
> > There is no fact present, only your amateur
> > opinion of watching, as you admit, the
> highlights
> > from one game. Why don't you try watching, at
> the
> > very least, the entire game before making such
> a
> > strongly opinionated statement. Thanks.
>
>
> You obviously don't really understand NFL footie
> ball.
>
> Jake Long is DONE!
>
> See my other posts for why if you care to
> understand.
>
> Next draft we take a RT and switch Martin to LT.
>
> That's a guarantee.
>
> Book it. And maybe you'll understand the
> "chemistry" behind the scenes.
>
> And BTW. I'm like never wrong on these things. Ya
> know why?
>
> Because it's obvious!


I've read your other posts and you give nothing but opinion based off of the highlights from today's game and an accusation of Long having used illegal supplements. You really show off your great football mind that I am unable to comprehend. Anyone can see JL isn't up to his usual standard and it is just as easy to call doom and write him off. More likely, JL is battling some injuries and can't move as well as normal, though he is still performing above average.

Also, I am sure you have been wrong thousands of times but I don't care to go back and check your other posts. It is ironic that you usually sign off with "Just my opinion of course" but this time you present your opinion as fact. Perhaps someone forgot their medicine today.

It's possible we take another OT next draft but it will be because we don't want to pay Jake Long a ton of money not because Jake Long is a "juiced up plodder destined for RT".

Check out R2 in 2013.

Enough said.

this is libelous! where has it ever been reported that Long was juiced up?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

GBOFinFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Because it's obvious!
>
> With all the glaring needs (wr, cb, s, wr, de, wr)
> you think we spend a high pick on another ol? And
> you think its an obvious pick? What color is the
> turf at your footie ball games?

LOL. I think it's a bedroom color because notice how he can't keep sex out of his posts?

oh lets see...

Cro-Magnon brow?

Check!

Joints breaking down due to excessive weight lifting which the "un-chemically modified" structure cannot adequately support?

Check!

Unnatural muscularity coupled with a noticeable lack of "natural athletic freakish mongrelism?"

Check!

I could go on but I'd have to provide photographic evidence and hence incriminate unsuspecting training camp fodder and sundry discarded footie ball trash.

Beyond that. It's freaking OBVIOUS!

DUH!

BNF.

you crack me up

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

hehe in the imaginary land where I am GM of the phins (madden 13) I traded away Long, Dansby, Bush, Solai, Wake before this season began and got some great picks. Rebuilt this team with smart and physical guys.

I was thinking last week that we might not resign Long next year. Swing Martin over to LT and draft or sign a f/a RT. Some guys might not fit in the new O. Long, Thomas Clay.

Well it seems to me we're talking about this year + the serial DECLINE in Long's game and never ending series of "injuries." The simple truth is:

Long no Longer resembles the dude previously anointed as the #1 cornerstone of Project Big.

Long plays stiff and has heavy feet. His power game is a shadow of what it was.

At this point Long is NOT a standout (i.e., "franchise" player for this team.

Long no Longer resembles an ALL-Pro.

Furthermore, it 's glaringly obvious the system we're running is based on athletic OL play as opposed to the mule and plow horse game our previously inept regime implemented.

Hitch the wagon Martha the cows are coming home!

This offseason is all about $$$ because we have a lot of core players in their contract year, including Jake Long. Bottom line, based on his history there's ZERO chance we invest huge dollars into a player on the obvious decline.

Do the math. We need a RT. Martin is destined for LT.

We'll need some serious buck$ to resign Smith and Starks who are both having great success on the field. We also need $$$ for Reggie and then you factor in the rest of the group like Fasano etc.

Do the math. Unless Long is willing to play for RT $$ he's gone. Long gone.

And with that eventuality Project Big will be declared a definitive failure.

BNF. Yet there's more.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Good LT's may be easier to find than QB's but that
> don't make them easy to find.

That's actually debatable. I submit that there are more elite QB's in the league than LT's and therefore it would be easier to find a QB.

The QB position can only be played by one person whereas you can create blocking schemes to help a sub-par LT's so many remedial tackles are effectively hidden. But to have one that you can leave on an island (ala Darelle Revis at C, is every coaches dream.

I have to agree with eesti....A great QB is harder to find than a great Tackle.


To us dolphans should seem this way anyways.


Weve had many great tackles and just one superstar qb. Dan marino....If you want to include griesse go ahead. Make it 2.....

Could be 3 with Thill now.


I think weve had way more than 3 great tackles. Do the math.

The vaunted "LT" position is overrated...

You need a solid player there but a super-star in NOT remotely essential to win with in the league right now.

Do the Giants have a super-star LT?

How about the Packers?

And so forth and so on.

Yea, you need a really good athlete with good feet size length etc. but its not critical he's a "franchise" dude. Not in the system we're running.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Philbin knows exactly what he wants at the position and next year that will be Martin. With that resolved we can invest one of our 2's and get a top-shelf RT. Perhaps we could even solve that position in the 3rd.

Don't worry. Be happy.

BNF.

The Left tackle position is over rated until you dont have one.... We had a mess of a problem last year with out a right tackle... And before that a mess of a problem at center... It seems easy to take for granted what you have, and see the grass as always greener...After we loss Richmond Webb, it wasnt so easy to find a replacement LT, and it created big problems for us for many years...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche