man this team has so little talent. Ireland has now had 5 years picking players. we've got very very few good players and no star players.

the best evidence was the season where it was the best TE draft ever (Gronk, Graham, Hernandez, etc) and despite our "double down" philosphy we took ZERO TEs---we did take John Jerry in the 3d though! And now we've got major bust Egnew in the 3d, where we could've taken an all pro a few years back. This isn't hindsight, it was obvious at the time.

Ireland is really horrible.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Oh my...

John Nablone FTW!

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Stop it. You'll make me vomit!

Maybe we're just playin possum?

have we drafted one player that out performed his draft positon?
No.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I agree. I've been saying that and wanted t back off because maybe things get better with Parcells gone and blah blah.

One thing, Martin looked like crap tonite for R2. It's amazing how long out OL has been "rebuilding." Still no end in sight.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> have we drafted one player that out performed his
> draft positon?
> No.


Wow! That sounds like my argument.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

The decision to let Nolan go looks like an Ireland killer to me....smuck

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > have we drafted one player that out performed
> his
> > draft positon?
> > No.
>
>
> Wow! That sounds like my argument.

I think this is a valid question. I can't think of one guy we drafted who turned out better than he should be (though I can think of many many players who underperformed).
Starting with oour few good players
Long---one of just 2 OL in history to be taken #1 overall. He better make the Pro Bowl.
Pouncy--highest drafted C in history. He better be Hall of Fame worthy. We shall see.
Vonte Davis? top 20 drafted CB, not even starting
D Thomas---2d round RB, pile of crap.
etc etc

can someone name one guy we drafted who played better than he should (don't mention Cam Wake, he was not drafted--he is the only guy Ireland picked up who's been great--but I don't give him much credit, a lot of teams were trying to sign him out of Canada---low risk/high reward)

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Did you guy's ever stop to think that maybe the players we have on the O-Line are not athletic enough to run our new zone blocking scheme. Parcells guy's have always been very big, strong, man to man blockers...maybe, just maybe we are now stuck with guys that lack lateral movement ability and quickness, thus making them not suited for the system.

Then again, maybe they are athletic enough and we are simply evaluating our youngsters to a greater degree and playing vanilla with the starters to get them reps.

Just saying,

Here we go again. 2nd preseason game and out come the boo birds.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Then again, maybe they are athletic enough and we
> are simply evaluating our youngsters to a greater
> degree and playing vanilla with the starters to
> get them reps.


I hope we are playing vanilla because if we are playing chocolate then we are a piece of $H!T.

You might have a point there ken.

But its just a meaningless preseason game though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2012 07:02AM by samsam3738.

eesti Wrote:
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> Here we go again. 2nd preseason game and out come
> the boo birds.


No $#!T!
I'm sure DK is ready to explode with a tirade of epic props!

Are we forgetting we started a rookie Q,new staff, new O, new D, were without several starters, and just played a glorified scrimmage with a minimal(if any) game plan?

socalphin Wrote:

>
> Are we forgetting we started a rookie Q,new staff,
> new O, new D, were without several starters, and
> just played a glorified scrimmage with a
> minimal(if any) game plan?


Thank You.................... Exactly right.

Yes, right on.

So I guess that makes it ok we looked like complete shit across the board then....what kind of rationale is that.... Excuses are excuses and you guys got lots of them.... But we still sucked....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Yeah, Crowder but pointing at the rookie QB is hardly an accurate assessment of the problem.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> have we drafted one player that out performed his
> draft positon?
> No.


Sean Smith
Reshad Jones
Devon Bess
Brian Hartline
K Langford

sean smith was a 2d round pick and in his 4th year he is a starting CB. But not a very good one. When you take someone in the 2d round, you expect a starter. Outperforming the spot would be a very good starter. Smith is average at best.

Jones was a 6th round pick and he's contributing, so I will give you that one. But he's not an impact player.

Bess wasn't drafted so doesn't count. But yes he's been a good player for us.

Hartline? if he can ever get on the field he is OK--not a great player.

K Langford. No longer on the team. Another solid but not difference making player.

Contrast your list with all the of many players who totally underperformed where they were picked----Turner, White, Jerry, Murphy, Misi, Edds, Odrick..

Where are the Jason Taylors (3d rounder) Zach Thomas (5th Round) Mark Clayton (8th round)---those are the kind of things I am talking about when I mean out performing your draft spot

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Berk, Smith has outplayed Vontae Davis by a mile so far this off season...right now he's the best CB on the team. I'd say that so far that's just a bit better than average given the level of Davis' talent.

That said, point taken.

I've warmed up to Ireland over the years, and I think he has made strides in the recent past. I give him a good bit of credit for overcoming the out of date philosophy that Parcells brought to us. I think many of his early mistakes were a product of this philosophy and approach: over-emphasis on big guys on the line, underemphasis on the QB/WR position, lack of tact in communication (Zach T's exit from the team, Dez Bryant interview). I think John Jerry wouldn't be on our team if Sparano hadn't inexplicably fallen in love with him at the Sr. Bowl.

I especially like some of his recent non-moves and mistake-admitting as a part of the equation. I am SO glad we didn't get Orton or Kolb in here. I like that we invested a high pick in the draft on QB. I am glad we signed Wake to a well-deserved extension that doesn't seem to truly break the bank. I was excited when we traded for him and tried to like him throughout, but I was glad we got rid of Marshall and recouped 2 3rds.

I'm excited about Philbin and he brings a system that works in today's NFL. He and Ireland worked together on the most important position in this year's draft, and I think those elements combine to be the best strategy the team has had in years. Whether it will succeed is yet to be seen, but I think the strategy and starting point are sound.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2012 10:51AM by tsstamper.

Yeah, gotta agree with Ken on Sean Smith. Sean's a great player. Did you see him shut up Chad Johnson after he shut him down?

socalphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > have we drafted one player that out performed
> his
> > draft positon?
> > No.
>
>
> Sean Smith
> Reshad Jones
> Devon Bess
> Brian Hartline
> K Langford


Seriously?

Maybe Bess, but he wasn't drafted.

The rest. Sorry, they have not out-performed their draft position. Not even close.

This is just another case of Dolphins fans having lowered standards after years of bad play.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Sean smith has yet to be a great cb during his nfl career... End of story... Sean smith is great in training camp and has been awful after that... He was rated as the 74 cb last year, behind Nolan carroll by twenty spots and fifty behind davis. I promise you Sean smith will not grade out this year as the best cb on the team.. During his career with us he normally grades out as the worst cb on our team....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I agree with DK's comment about lowered standards. I think we have forgotten what it means to be a "great" or even "good" player in the league. Pro Bowls, lots of Ints (if you are a C, actually making the list when the nfl comes out with its 100 best players. Think about it, there are 32 teams in the nfl. If every team drafted "average," each team should have 3.125 players on that list. We have one--Jake Long, an OL and the #1 overall pick in the draft. Talk about bang for the buck.

I am so tired of hearing about how good Vonta Davis and Sean Smith are. Neither has ever made a pro bowl. Smith has 3 INTs in his career and gets beat often. Vonta not only is not starting he isn't even the first CB off the bench. It wasn't so long ago we had Surtain and Madison---if you've forgotten when a good CBs look like, just think back to them.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I guarantee you Berk that Davis and Marshall will grade out as our 2 best cb's when this season is over.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

or, if you listen to Omark Kelly, we won't be able to re sign him because he's going to be the highest paid CB in the NFL.
Moron.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

At this point it's reasonable to assume Ireland will never produce consistent "diamonds" like Joe Thomas in the 70’s, or Bobby Beathard, or even the gems JJ found with Zack and JT etc.

This franchise was spoiled back in the glory days when we had the best HC and THE BEST front office. Put that together and ya get perfection!

On the up side, Ireland is still young and may (???) develop into a solid GM. But the odds are just as likely he’s never going to produce consistent results top to bottom, year after year. And of course inconsistency = mediocrity or worse. Something I agree we’ve grown accustomed to.

It’s one thing to realize you need some new carpet and some new furniture. It’s another when you realize the foundation of your house is rotten.

I'm sure if you compare him to the all time greats it looks a lot worse but that's not fair since they are no longer around...Ron Wolfe, Bill Polian, etc...So who are the elite GM's working right now?

1st tier
Ozzie Newsome, Brian Belichick, Kevin Colbert, Jerry Reese

2md tier
Thomas Dimitroff, AJ Smith, Howard Roseman, Ted Thompson, Mickey Loomis

These guys are probably some of the top GM's today.

Allmost all would not be considered that great had they not found a franchise QB. Look at AJ Smith...he keeps bringing in talent and the Chargers are still up and down every year. Dimitroff hasn't yet fielded a good defense, he just has Matt Ryan and a couple franchise receivers.

Ireland takes all the heat but he will be judged by Ryan Tannehill success or failure.

Where would we be placing Belichick if he hadn't got lucky with Brady?

It's been talked about before on this site but Ireland thus far has only brought in a few good to very good starters. He hasn't found any superstars/playmakers yet (other than Jake Long). The jury is still out on this years crop. We still have to wait and see on other players that still may be studs...

Cam Wake, Reggie Bush, Jared Odrick.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Crowder52 Wrote:
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> I guarantee you Berk that Davis and Marshall will
> grade out as our 2 best cb's when this season is
> over.

Is that sarcasm?

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.