Pretty bad success rate


QB Ryan Tannehill
OL Jonathan Martin
DL Olivier Vernon
TE Michael Egnew
RB Lamar Miller
LB Josh Kaddu
WR B.J. Cunningham
DL Kheeston Randall
WR Rishard Matthews

OL Mike Pouncey
RB Daniel Thomas
WR Edmond Gates
RB Charles Clay
DL Frank Kearse
DB Jimmy Wilson

DL Jared Odrick
LB Koa Misi
OL John Jerry
LB A.J. Edds
DB Nolan Carroll
DB Reshad Jones
LB Chris McCoy
LB Austin Spitler

DB Vontae Davis
QB Pat White
DB Sean Smith
WR Patrick Turner
WR Brian Hartline
TE John Nalbone
DB Chris Clemons
OL Andrew Gardner
LB J.D. Folsom

OL Jake Long
DL Phillip Merling
QB Chad Henne
DL Kendall Langford
OL Shawn Murphy
RB Jalen Parmele
OL Donald Thomas
RB Lex Hilliard
DL Lionel Dotson

Actually I don't think that is doing too bad, especially if this last draft is as good as I think it is.

When you win 4-6 games, are picking top 10, and half these guys are gone or underperformers, usually that says something

jlyell13 Wrote:
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> Pretty bad success rate
>
>
> QB Ryan Tannehill (Starting Q
> OL Jonathan Martin (Starting RT)
> DL Olivier Vernon (Rush End on Passing Downs)
> TE Michael Egnew (Back-up TE)
> RB Lamar Miller (4th round steal)
> LB Josh Kaddu (Back-up L
> WR B.J. Cunningham (cut probably on Practice Squad)
> DL Kheeston Randall (Back-up DT)
> WR Rishard Matthews (Back-up WR)
>
> OL Mike Pouncey (starting center)
> RB Daniel Thomas (good runningback)
> WR Edmond Gates
> RB Charles Clay (#2 TE)
> DL Frank Kearse
> DB Jimmy Wilson (1st back-up at both safety and corner)
>
> DL Jared Odrick (starting DE)
> LB Koa Misi (starting OL
> OL John Jerry (competing for starting Guard)
> LB A.J. Edds
> DB Nolan Carroll (nickel back)
> DB Reshad Jones (starting safety)
> LB Chris McCoy
> LB Austin Spitler (back-up ML
>
> DB Vontae Davis (3 years starter turned into 2nd and 6th round picks
> QB Pat White
> DB Sean Smith (starting corner)
> WR Patrick Turner
> WR Brian Hartline (starting wr)
> TE John Nalbone
> DB Chris Clemons (starting safety)
> OL Andrew Gardner
> LB J.D. Folsom
>
> OL Jake Long (starting LT and one of the best)
> DL Phillip Merling
> QB Chad Henne
> DL Kendall Langford (4 year starter)
> OL Shawn Murphy
> RB Jalen Parmele (poached)
> OL Donald Thomas (Started until injuries wrecked him)
> RB Lex Hilliard ( 2 year back-up)
> DL Lionel Dotson

I'd say that isn't too shabby especially the last 3 years.

For picking high, Jonathan?

I don't count anything in the first year, and might as well through out the second. Have to assume those were done under Parcells.

The past three years - not a single player has emerged as an major impact player.

Not to say the Odrick and possible RT may become impact players in the future, but that is only 2 out of how many? And lasts years draft is looking horrible.

Bottom line - Ireland cannot draft. And now he is trading aways good players for draft picks. This should worry everyone.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

To be fair, you gotta add in Pouncey as well.

There's no doubt he needs to get a little better with the draft, but I wonder what his % of hits/misses looks like against other GMs? And most of these players that didn't pan were not reaches (P. White/P. Turner not withstanding), good GM's gotta get lucky every once in a while, and the past coaching staff has to bear some of the blame for developing some of these past failures.

Also, if you're gonna slam his drafts, don't you have to factor in the un-drafted FA's he signed? D. Bess and Cam Wake look pretty good right don't they?

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> To be fair, you gotta add in Pouncey as well.

Why? So far Pouncey has done nothing to separate himself from all the other starting centers in this league. He is a typical starting NFL center, most of whom get picked in rounds other than first.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

I disagree. I think he's doing a helluva good job and is out playing Igcognito and Jerry who have been in the league longer.

Come on, Debbie Downer.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I disagree. I think he's doing a helluva good job
> and is out playing Igcognito and Jerry who have
> been in the league longer.
>
> Come on, Debbie Downer.

A LOT of NFL players are outplaying Incognito and Jerry. That is saying NOTHING.

What I said is that he is not any better than half of the starting centers in the NFL. That isn't exactly a slam on the Pouncy - he is a serviceable starting center.

But in the context of Ireland using a first round pick... that was not a smart move. Most serviceable starting NFL centers go lower.

Pouncy is not an NFL superstar center. Yet Ireland picked him like he was.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Pretty soon Pouncey makes all-pro. Betcha!

I doubt half the centers in the NFL started in their rookie year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2012 04:40PM by ChyrenB.

and 95%+ of the centers were not picked in the top 15 of the draft. This guys better be an all pro or he is a wasted pick. plus he seems to have trouble snapping the ball, kind of key if you are a center

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Hang in there, Berk. He will. Hang in there. He's not a problem.

I think he's a good player. I just think when you take an OL #1 overall and a C #15 overall and both are good players you don't deserve props. Those are positions you should be able to find lower in the draft and if you take them that high they should be pro bowlers. And despite those high picks (and others, John Jerry, Martin, etc) our OL still sucks and we STILL don't have a right side that is not a total sieve

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I can't argue with that.

you may want to check the stats on that berk. Plenty of OL drafted in the 1st round have busted so it is an accomplishment to pick a LT, pro bowl every season, and a C, solid rookie year and very possible that he will become a pro bowl player. Having said that, the odds are better on the OL than other positions, but if Ireland were truly as incompetent at drafting as you claim then no doubt these two would be total busts and out of the league already.

And, I recall you stating in another thread that you aren't worried about Martin and believe he will come around. Have you changed your position or are you just saying that to paint a gloomier picture to try to prove your point? Jerry was Sporano's wish and he may yet turn into at least a good back up. The kid obviously has talent but needs to get his weight in check. Incognito was a good find, we have been able to rein in his anger management issues and he is an above average LG.

Our OL is really young and needs time, health, and good coaching to grow, but in two years I think we could have:
Long- Perennial All Pro
Incognito- Above average
Pouncey- Perennial Pro Bowl, Occasional All Pro
Jerry/Player yet to be drafted/signed- Unlikely that Jerry can put it all together but it shouldn't be hard to find another above average OG in the next two drafts considering our boat load of picks and incoming cap space.
Martin- Occasional Pro Bowl

This would be a top 8 OL in the league and if we find a pro bowl level OG then I think its in the conversation for best OL in football.

Obviously a sunny outlook but not impossible or even improbable. You could come back with a pessimistic view and rip this apart but that doesn't make you correct any more than my view is correct. Why not be positive, we finally have a coaching staff that can develop talent.

I think Martin will come around but the fact is the right side of our OL is still a major issue after all these years despite an inordinate amount of resources ($ and picks) spent on the OL. I agree, if you project pro bowl play from players who are no where near that level (3/5th of the OL), then yes we'd have a pretty good OL. But the fact is, we do not have one.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Ideally, we'd find an top LG who could pull, and slide Incognito to RG, his more natural position. But, that's an issue for next season, when Incognito is likely a cap casualty.

Lets compare...2011 pretty below average, 2010 2 PB TE's the rest below average, 2009 not good, 2008 Jerod Mayo the rest below average.

So Belichick had two good picks at TE's but how good would they be without Brady? Other than those picks, as an overall grade I would give BB a D-. Most of the players aren't even on the team anymore. Several 2nd and 3rd round flops...an it wasn't like they had big competition at CB, WR, LB, S or RB



2012 21 Chandler Jones DE
25 Dont'a HightowerLB
48 Tavon Wilson DB
90 Jake Bequette DE
197 Nate Ebner DB
224 Alfonzo Dennard DB
235 Jeremy Ebert WR

2011

17 Nate Solder T
33 Ras-I Dowling DB
56 Shane Vereen RB
73 Stevan Ridley RB
74 Ryan Mallett QB
138 Marcus Cannon T
59 Lee Smith TE
194 Markell Carter LB
219 Malcolm WilliamsDB
2010

27 Devin McCourty DB
42 Rob Gronkowski TE
53 Jermaine Cunningham LB
62 Brandon Spikes LB
90 Taylor Price WR
113 Aaron Hernandez TE
150 Zoltan Mesko P
205 Ted Larsen C
208 Thomas Welch T
247 Brandon Deaderick LB
248 Kade Weston DE
250 Zac Robinson QB
2009

34 Patrick Chung DB
40 Ron Brace DT
41 Darius Butler DB
58 Sebastian Vollmer T
83 Brandon Tate WR
97 Tyrone McKenzie LB
123 Rich Ohrnberger G
170 George Bussey T
198 Jake Ingram C
207 Myron Pryor DT
232 Julian Edelman QB
234 Darryl Richard DT
2008

10 Jerod Mayo LB
62 Terrence Wheatley DB
78 Shawn Crable LB
94 Kevin O'Connell QB
129 Jonathan Wilhite DB
153 Matt Slater WR
197 Bo Ruud LB

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2012 07:09AM by eesti.

bellicheck's drafting is overrated. he's had as many 2d round busts as us. but when you hit the lotto with brady and have twice as many picks as every other team each year, it enables you to cover up those bad picks

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

But he doesn't cover up the bad picks. Tom Brady does. He is the perfect example of what a franchise QB will do for your franchise.

Base on those picks Ireland is a better drafter. Rt turns into a legit QB and everything else gets forgotten.

Look how bad BB's defense is and he is a Defensive "guru".

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Just looking at your own list of draftees, eesti, BB has obviously done the superior drafting. I mean we've got Pouncey, Long, and looks like RT, and that's it. And remember no one knows about Ryan Mallett because Brady, arguably the best QB in football, has not slowed down.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty soon Pouncey makes all-pro. Betcha!
>
> I doubt half the centers in the NFL started in
> their rookie year.


"If" doesn't cut it.

In some peoples eyes, Tannehill will be also be making the Pro-Bowl soon. Lots of cheerleaders for Ireland, but no one has yet to see it on the field.

As of right now, Ireland stinks. Maybe this year will show something different, but if it doesn't then one must admit that Ireland plain sucks.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Martin will come around but the fact is
> the right side of our OL is still a major issue
> after all these years despite an inordinate amount
> of resources ($ and picks) spent on the OL.

I'm glad your still on board with Martin, good to hear.

> I agree, if you project pro bowl play from players
> who are no where near that level (3/5th of the
> OL), then yes we'd have a pretty good OL.

Nowhere near? Long is already at that level. I am basing the prediction off of draft pedigree. It isn't unreasonable to think our first round OC could develop into a pro bowl player. Pouncey had a solid first year w/no TC and he obviously has a lot of talent, would it really be shocking to see him continue to develop and become a pro bowl guy? It isn't unreasonable to think our 2nd round OT could make a couple pro bowls considering he was unanimously considered a first round OT that slid to the 2nd round (i.e. he has serious talent). Now I never said these were locks but I just taking a cautiously optimistic outlook at this particular position group with the hopes that we can finally develop some of our talent.

But the
> fact is, we do not have one.

I agree for now, all I said is we have good potential which is nice considering we are rebuilding.


Question for Mark or anyone else that knows: Are we switching to a zone blocking scheme for sure? Got any links to that info?

If you think I disagree with the notion that Ireland stinks, DolfanKing, you cannot read. Better go back to the second grade.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you think I disagree with the notion that
> Ireland stinks, DolfanKing, you cannot read.
> Better go back to the second grade.


Wow - Why so hostile? Particularly when you agree.

I know you think Ireland stinks.

I even agree that Pouncy is a good player. But I don't agree that Pouncy is first round quality.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

You made reference to "Lots of Cheerleaders for Ireland" when you quoted my post.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You made reference to "Lots of Cheerleaders for
> Ireland" when you quoted my post.


I believe we are in violent agreement.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

I see 4 players on BB's list that would be considered good players. Two that have played great...TE's.

Gronk
Hernandez
Mayo
Vollmer

Solder has been up and down. Mayo had one good year and disappeared. Vollmer is ok.

Spikes has been ok as well.

Mallett is not even in the conversation.

I see in 2009 two high round flops. Butler and Brace. Actually outside of the ok players I mentioned I see a all flops. 46 players drafted and 4 or 5 keepers.

I see a defense in Miami (top 10) that was built from the draft. Sean Smith, Davis, Odrick, Misi, Jones, Clemens, Carroll & Langford.

Hartline has been better than any WR BB drafted. Of course we have Jake Long. Same goes for any DB they have.

NE is superior in the fact that they have two superstars in the TE's and probably a PRo Bowl cailber MLB if he could get some talent around him and stay healthy. I will give them the edge just for that fact.

I'm just saying that overall there isn't that much disparity between what we have done and what most in NE would call a genius. Not saying Ireland is a genius by an means.

I also think this year is key for a few players that could be top notch...John Jerry (if a G can be a Superstar), Sean Smith, Hartline, Charles Clay, Jared Odrick, Daniel Thomas, RT, Martin, Miller, Pouncey.

I'm sure the drafts wouldn't be much better for the Jets or Buffalo.

You would probably have to look at Pitt, GB, Giants or Baltimore to find quality drafting. Prob not too many teams that have been consistently good.

Pouncey not worth a first rounder? scratching my head.

Dolphin1423: yes we have implemented a zone blocking scheme.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers