I may be in the minority, but the price for RGIII seems OK to me. I think I'd do it.I which starter the Rams want?

Maybe we can give them the Tackle that they need.....





Marc Columbo.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Seriously, I watch this kids highlights and…

Yea, he’s a wonderful athlete (but if he tries some of those moves in the NFL he’ll wind up in the hospital) and completes some balls – but he looks SO RAW in terms of a certified NFL franchise coitusback.

Really? This kid is a project, albeit a mighty dandy one, but he’s not NFL ready IMO.

Check-out the wind-up on a lot of throws…

And he looks like he’s “aiming” on a number of throws…

And I don’t see a guy who’s scanning the entire field…

Does he make pre-snap reads and adjustments? I saw no evidence of that…

Anyway, those are only a few points to consider, and I didn’t watch the kid in college so what do I know…

I’m just curious how many around here think this kid is a guaranteed star or a big gamble?

BNF,

All I have to say, is look at Cam Newton. There were more questions about Newton coming out than RG3.

Is Cam smart? Can he run an NFL offense? Can he throw the ball? All he does is run?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

i dont think any kid coming out of college is worth all of that... i thought atlanta gave up to much for julio jones. The problem is people get all on the hype wagon and get ready to give up the farm. Do your homework, everyone has two arms and legs, the college is filled with lucks and RG3's just search and they are there. No need to mortgage the future. JMO

So i personally would not give up that much for RG3 and expecially not luck...

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously, I watch this kids highlights and…
>
> Yea, he’s a wonderful athlete (but if he tries
> some of those moves in the NFL he’ll wind up in
> the hospital) and completes some balls – but he
> looks SO RAW in terms of a certified NFL franchise
> coitusback.
>
> Really? This kid is a project, albeit a mighty
> dandy one, but he’s not NFL ready IMO.
>
> Check-out the wind-up on a lot of throws…
>
> And he looks like he’s “aiming” on a number
> of throws…
>
> And I don’t see a guy who’s scanning the
> entire field…
>
> Does he make pre-snap reads and adjustments? I saw
> no evidence of that…
>
> Anyway, those are only a few points to consider,
> and I didn’t watch the kid in college so what do
> I know…
>
> I’m just curious how many around here think this
> kid is a guaranteed star or a big gamble?


I literally agree with every single point you made. I have serious, SERIOUS doubts about this kid. I see more Pat White than John Elway when I look at him. He was wonderful and exciting in college, I just don't see it translating in the pros. Thats not to say he'll be a complete and utter failure, but he does not seem to exhibit a lot of the standard big time field general stuff you look for when evaluating a top shelf pro QB prospect. He looks like a thin-framed, shifty guy with quickness who has improved a good deal on his passing since starting college ball being very sub=par at it.

But yeah, I don't see a battle-tested, long-term durable, broad shouldered, quick-release, field-scanning, defense reading, step up in the pocket, adjustment making, NFL arm possessing, NFL field general. I see a version of Pat White that looks about 30-40% more NFL ready. But IMO that's still nowhere near enough, and certaintly not worth selling the farm for. He has "extremely high risk, moderate reward" written all over him, to me.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BNF,
>
> All I have to say, is look at Cam Newton. There
> were more questions about Newton coming out than
> RG3.
>
> Is Cam smart? Can he run an NFL offense? Can he
> throw the ball? All he does is run?


Forget Cam Newton.

Just look at the tape of him in 2010 vs 2011. He's two completely different QB's.

Tells you the not only is he very intelligent, he's VERY coach-able.

RG3 will be a superstar QB in this league.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Says we will be all in for RG3 if Peyton
> Manning
> > doesn't come here.
> >
> > Says STARTING bid for #2 pick is 2012 1st, 2013
> > 1st and starter or 2nd/3rd round pick. Will go
> up
> > from there.
> >
>
> RESPONSE: I'm sure that St. Louis would be HAPPY,
> HAPPY, HAPPY, to get that deal but if I were
> Miami, I'd say, "Okay, that's your
> night-before-Christmas-wish list, but now let's
> get down to reality.
>
>
> Bargaining is not only the seller's wish list but
> what he can realistically get from other buyers.
>
> Miami should say, "Let's talk about a 2nd round in
> 2013, a non-starter and a 4th round pick this
> year. And BTYW, St. Louis, if you don't like
> that, just see who between 2 and 8 that is ALSO in
> need of a QB or between 4-8 who is in need of
> Justin Blackmon, who will offer you that deal.
> And 2nd BTW, St. Louis, if the team between 4-8 is
> in need of Justin Blackmon, who is their higher-up
> competition, and if there is nobody between 4-8
> who needs a WR like Justin Blackmon, then again,
> if none of them desperately needs a QB, you'd
> better take our 1st this year and maybe our 2nd
> next year and etc., etc."

CB...they'd hang up the phone on you if you offered this years #1 a #2 and a non starter plus a 4th.

Then they'd block your phone number.

I'd give up our first this year and our first next year as well as a starter or two that we will most likely be cutting anyway...we will have a couple of those.

Well, TT, I wouldn't accept a stupid deal that they couldn't get from anybody else just so they would keep me on speed-dial.

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So i personally would not give up that much for
> RG3 and expecially not luck...


That statement makes me laugh and it has very little to do with the word "expecially". The concept of being unwilling to sell the farm for an elite college QB prospect is one thing, but the notion of being more willing to do so for RG3 than Andrew Luck is hilariously ass-backwards to me.

No, I think I'd give up more picks for this decades far and away, hands down, most promising and heralded QB prospect to come out of college in the last 12-15 years, than a wildly unconventional, slender, running-type athlete QB, short on the pivotal, time tested fundamental attributes which have proven necessary for almost all elite proven NFL QB's to possess, with more than questionable pro-game translatation potential, who is surrounded by dozens of question marks, whose intriguing successes have come against sub-par competition, and who approximates literally dozens of similar former skill-set types that have had a pretty consistent track record of failure in the NFL over the years. see Pat White, see Joe Webb, see Akili Smith, etc. etc.

No, if I was going to sell the farm for one of those two, I'd probably do so for the former. But thats just me.... and just about every single pro scout on the planet

Comparing RG3 to Joe Webb is a joke. Absolute joke.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Add Defense(Upshaw) OL(Adams/Adcock) a TE (Allen/Fleener/Charles) WR(Posey/Streeter/Quick)

and Matt Flynn at a decent price or stay with Moore

Try to land Calais Campbell or Robert Mathis

Major D pas rush improves the secondary

Upgraded OL & WR & TE upgrades the offense

Flynn has proven more than RG3 and Philbin should know if he is the real thing

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Comparing RG3 to Joe Webb is a joke. Absolute
> joke.



alright I concede that

Has anyone seen RG3 take any snaps from under center at Baylor?

So far I haven't seen him do it, but if someone here has, how are his 3, 5, & 7 step drops?

I've only seen him in the Shotgun for passing, even for hand-offs & even for play action passes. Not sure how his college play will translate to the pros, but footwork, timing, & rhythm are a whole different animal taking snaps from under center. Not doing it in college and then suddenly having to do it in the NFL is a bit spooky.

Playing the game differently than what he's used to could affect judgment & accuracy. Hopefully the Combine will see what he has and provide a fair assessment of what his skill level as a pro will be. IMO, the kid is a very high risk for the #2 pick in the draft, let alone moving up & having to pay two 1st's and then some to get him.

Unless the pro scouts at the combine profess him to be the next Jesus Christ himself of football, I'd feel a lot safer bringing in Flynn to compete with Moore and keeping the draft picks that are needed.

Regarding that "starting price" for RG3:

wasnt it Kurt Russell in the movie "Used Cars" who said "That's too ------ high!"

Crazy outrageous price set by the Rams. At least you'll know right away if your front office is competent or incompetent based on their decision on this matter. The smart thing is to go for Flynn as a FA, lose nothing, and in the process get him the OL help he needs. But then again, maybe they are thinking that too and feigning interest in RGIII to lower Flynn's asking price?

I honestly think Flynn's the guy, I just hope Ross doesn't see too many $$$$$$ with Manning and rush into signing him. Hopefully he'd be smart enough to get a legit clean bill of health before even considering it.

I'm OK with Flynn, I've heard nothing but praise about this guy, and he'd already know the offense. Makes too much sense not to sign him.

Quote:

"And once again, I saw a lot in Moore that I believe is workable in the NFL right now."


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
But the front office doesnt believe that. They have already publicly acknowledged the fact that the QB position is their #1 priority.

Right!?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

You guys think Moore would have any trade value right now? Even a 5th/6th or 7th rnder for him? Sign Flynn (who knows the system), sign a decent backup that's run the WCO before, and draft Tannehill (Shermans boy) in the 3rd rnd or after to develop. Not sure Moore would have any trade value right now, but you never know?

I know Ireland has put out some “mixed signals” about Moore, on one hand blabbering about the need to get a FQB, and yet giving Moore some degree of credit. I think the kid needs more positive support than that – as Hairbrush did with Alex Smith (and I personally believe Matt Moore shows at least as much promise as Smith did a year ago).

The fans aren’t stupid but it sure seems Ross and Ireland think they are – like telling us we’re on the hunt for a FQB. I mean shut the F up and just do it. We all know the position has been horribly neglected for years so don’t act like you’ve suddenly found the “truth.” But in the meantime, at least give some positive support to Moore and encourage the kid to devote 100% to the offseason program because the job is his FOR NOW.

Last, to trade Moore for a low round pick is an absolute WASTE IMO. The worst case is – he’s a solid backup and who the hell else do we have? And what kind of hidden treasure are you going to fish out with a R7 pick?

Maybe no team would give us a 2 or 3 for Moore, but I wouldn’t cut him loose for less. Like I said before, he’s a prime candidate to see his game evolve in a positive arc, so at least don’t bet against the kid, and give him the tools he needs around him to be successful, starting with an OL that can pass protect.

Just look at the Lady in NE. Only when she/he as open receivers with a clear line of sight (which means really good pass pro) does he/she look good. Put some pressure on and the Lady’s game comes apart like cheap fishnet stockings.

BNF.

hahaha we may not agree but I like you Reppa , and I'll respond to a few of the things you called me out on, some of which I'll concede, a few points I still disagree with...


Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Panteraize Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Miami Reppa Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > So i personally would not give up that much
> for
> > > RG3 and expecially not luck...
> >
> >
> > That statement makes me laugh and it has very
> > little to do with the word "expecially". The
> > concept of being unwilling to sell the farm for
> an
> > elite college QB prospect is one thing, but the
> > notion of being more willing to do so for RG3
> than
> > Andrew Luck is hilariously ass-backwards to me.
>
>
> Yup ass backwards... um remind me who won the
> heisman? exactly, that was like hilary losing to
> obama. Hilary, like luck was basically the choice
> and playing out the season was a mere formality.


Not sure the Hilary-Obama scenario is exactly what we're witnessing here though I understand the metaphor. I get the concept, but that has more to do with hype and popularity than success and true ability (not saying one could have been more successful than the other and certainly not trying to make a political statement)



> > No, I think I'd give up more picks for this
> > decades far and away, hands down, most
> promising
> > and heralded QB prospect to come out of college
> in
> > the last 12-15 years,
>
> Thats 35 years... now let me run the hype down to
> you since you obviously dont watch college
> football and have the nerve to call me out. hyped
> qb's over this past decade, bradford, jake locker,
> matt liener (ooohh the god), mattie ice, come on
> man you cant make a living on hyped prospects
> expecially when guys like brady, rothelsburg,
> brees, rogers were not hyped and wayyyy better.

Dude, I repeated the "best prospect in decades" concept twice in one sentence by accident. That wasn't meant to be doubled.


> HA HA!!! is that your best examples? pat white was
> only drafted cause of the wildcat, akili smith yes
> thats an example but joe webb was out of UAB for
> pete sake!!! Now let me finish your list for you
> warren moon, cunningham, steve young, mcnabb,
> vick, doug williams (won championship), air
> mcnair, those guys are perinatal probowlers/HOF
> and franchise guys...


Ok Joe Webb... bad comparison. As for Pat White the intentions behind why he was drafted do not relate to the striking similarities he has with RG3, of which their are many.

> > No, if I was going to sell the farm for one of
> > those two, I'd probably do so for the former.
> But thats just me.... and just about every single
> pro scout on the planet
>
> I respect that you have not jumped on the RG3
> bandwagon cause lord knows everyone and there
> momma has lol... you believe in luck cause
> everyone says to but he is not a pocket passer he
> is also a mobile "athletic type" qb, he throws
> alot on the run, infact that is the strength of
> his game so whats so different?
>
> And yes RG3 is better than luck i dont experts
> would refute that, and the fact that there is even
> a conversation about it is evidence in itself.


Frankly Reppa, it's not so much that RG3 is a running QB and thats all I have to be suspicious of his ability to translate to the NFL as an elite QB. It's more of the NFL QB intangibles that I see in Luck that I don't necessarily see in RG3. I see him as more of an athlete with exciting occasional big play potential who could give D coordinators headaches in CERTAIN ways. But through 4 quarters I don't know if he can do all the things necessary that an elite QB has to be able to pull off in games. I question his field general, defense-reading, stepping up in the pocket, durability abilities. I believe he's a natural leader so its not really his leadership, there's just something about watching an Elway, Marino, Moon type that I see in Luck and more of a Pat White, Michael Vick, Cunningham, Dennis Dixon thing that I see in RG3. Some of those guys have had success and I am not insistant he doesn't have the ability to have some measure of success, I just wouldn't sell the farm to get him and I might do that for Luck.

Also, this is unrelated but you mentioned Matt Ryan. Just to be clear I HATED him going into that draft and didn't want to draft him. I thought he was Joey Harrington 2.0 because he threw a lot of picks in college. I guess that shows how much I know because he's been a pretty good pro QB so far.

I would give them Cam Wake, or Solia or both, and this years first. and be done with it after this year.... I hate giving up those future 1st rd picks.... anything but that really...

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would give them Cam Wake, or Solia or both, and
> this years first. and be done with it after this
> year.... I hate giving up those future 1st rd
> picks.... anything but that really...

Can't do Soliai unless we re-sign him. Wake isn't valuable enough (there are a ton of guys that can play WOLB and DE in the league). I'd look at this THIS way: Who have we chosen in the 1st round in the last, say, 5 years, and would those players have been replaceable with later round players?

Here is the list going back to 2004:

2004 - Vernon Carey (never really lived up to potential at LT. Only was a decent RT for a couple seasons. Easily replaceable)
2005 - Ronnie Brown (Our Ronnie/Ricky combination was good, but I wonder what Ricky could have done if he had more carries. Ronnie was injured so often, I consider this pick a bust)
2006 - Jason Allen (uhh...no need to comment on this one)
2007 - Ted Ginn (same as above)
2008 - Jake Long (all world LT, but also appears to be injury prone. Other teams have done better with lesser LTs and good O-Line coaches! I'm REALLY worried about Long staying healthy)
2009 - Vontae Davis (as good as Vontae is, we've been pretty deep at CB for a number of years)
2010 - Jared Odrick (D-Line is another position we've been very deep in)
2011 - Mike Pouncey (If he lives up to his potential, then he could be the best 1st round pick we've had in the last 20 years, but that's ONE guy in 20 years!!!)

I have a few problems with your post monty.

we are not deep at CB at all. We have been starting Vontae and Sean Smith since their rookie seasons. If we were deep then we would not need to start to very young players like that. Plus Jimmy Wilson, another rookie, started a few games for us this season. We have a few players with upside in the secondary but we are still not deep with proven talent. Vontae is good but Jimmy and Sean Smith are still very unproven.

And Cam Wake is definitely valuable enough. Pass rushers are at an absolute premium and there are NOT a TON of guys who can play that position. Cam has a lot of value and he is still on his first deal which is ridiculously cheap.

Also, who are you going to easily replace Carey with? John Jerry? Carey actually played pretty well at RG this year and I guarantee that John Jerry would be much worse. Or are you counting on finding a gem in the later rounds?

By the way, there are probably very good players at every single position that have been taken outside the first round. The problem is that it is very hard to identify those players.