I like the second round pick. The second plus a player might be stretching it. V Davis has already showed that although a good player he brings along some question marks. When Brandon Marshall questions your dedication to the team ....

Trade davis to the colts for at least a 2nd rounder and hope the colts do really bad this year.

But with our " LUCK " the colts probably make the playoffs.

No way should u trade vontae Davis...he isn't easily replaceable... Our defense isn't looking good as it is now, trading away one of its best players is not even a remotely smart move to make..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I doubt this trade happens... if it does.. they may as well just tell any vet to have a seat as Miami will do absolutely nothing this year. It's not that anyone has any real high hopes, but the vets on the team still think they can.

The direction this move does is further indicates that they want to start fresh with their "own guys".

VD not having a great camp but is definitely a top 10 CB talent in the NFL. Stupid to trade him.

Secondary has issues anyway. Its a shame that you have to motivatea first round pick to get him to play.

I say if we get a second round offer - Take it.

I am quickly losing confidence that the defense will be anything like top 10 this year, we'll need to deal with vonte next season anyway, with no leverage.

*****

On the other hand ... I can live with it if they keep him, he is relatively inexpensive this year, and would be a decent 3rd conrner for the nickle pkg, and having him 1 more year may help the secondary limp along.

I figure next year we go WR isat round and corner or safety second anyway. We also have an extra 3rd rounder next year.

I wouldnt mind if they trade him but i also think if they trade him the phins will struggle even more in the secondary.

I think the team should make the trade. You give 110% or you are gone. I think the culture of acceptable mediocrity has been in place for to long. Time to pull up the weeds and toss them out. The players left will give 110% Ireland did a good job in this draft and the extra pick will do nicely in 2013.

"Trade him, get him the hell out of here trade' im for a 6 pack. It does not even have to be cold"

Buddy Ryan

I say trade him. He's only our 3rd CB now. Maybe another coach thinks they can motivate him up to the pro-bowl level he showed 2 years ago. I just say, take a 2nd and move on.

Oh...and work on re-signing Smith this year!

Has anyone considered that if Vontae has struggled it is because he is often assigned the most difficult receiver?

Which, in turn, is a compliment to his ability.

yes, let's keep taking players in the 1st round and trade them for 2d round picks, trading for players using 2 number 2s, and giving them up for 2 #3s, etc etc

Is it any wonder this team sucks?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes, let's keep taking players in the 1st round
> and trade them for 2d round picks, trading for
> players using 2 number 2s, and giving them up for
> 2 #3s, etc etc
>
> Is it any wonder this team sucks?

It doesnt matter where you picked vontae. What matters is how he is playing today.

And he is playing like a 3rd or 4th rounder.

he's the most talented CB on this team and he would start for more than 1/2 the teams in the league. We are not good enough to get rid of starting players.

man, hakeem nicks would have been a nice pick instead, huh?

the year we took vontea was the best WR draft in years. We ended up taking Pat Turner in the 3d and Hartline in the 4th, after Vontea, Pat White, and Sean Smith.

The year we took John Jerry in the 3d, Ordrick in the 1st, and Misi in the 2d was the best TE draft in history (Graham, Gronk, Hernanandez), and we took no TEs.

Both years we had huge needs at WR and TE.

that is the reason we have little to no talent on this team, and remain desperate for a WR and a good TE.

stupid drafting.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

you have good memory berk.



1. And the year we took RB john avery....(.YUK.).....We could of had randy moss.


2. And the year we took LB Eddie Moore...(.Hit me in the forehead with a baseball bat...) we could of had some receiver who turned out great i forgot his name. I think he went to denver or GB....Forgot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 09:47AM by samsam3738.

How about Jamar Fletcher over Drew Brees? The list goes on and on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 09:46AM by montequi.

I wasnt mad when we took jake long but i wanted ryan.

Davis could definitely use some tackling lessons along with the rest of the secondary but good grief, trade a starter for some mid 2nd round pick at this late date?!?!?!. Yea, that'll work. Ughhh just look at what their wheeling and dealing has done to our WR corps.Based on performance it's hard to name more than 2-3 good personnel moves Ireland has made here. I can't understand why people still think he's so good.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 2. And the year we took LB Eddie Moore...(.Hit me
> in the forehead with a baseball bat...) we could
> of had some receiver who turned out great i forgot
> his name. I think he went to denver or
> GB....Forgot.


anquan boldin.

what gets me about the TE and WR drafts is that going into the draft, everyone know we had needs at those positions, and that it was an amazingly deep draft at those positions, yet we came away with nothing and even doubled down on other positons like DB.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > 2. And the year we took LB Eddie Moore...(.Hit
> me
> > in the forehead with a baseball bat...) we
> could
> > of had some receiver who turned out great i
> forgot
> > his name. I think he went to denver or
> > GB....Forgot.
>
>
> anquan boldin.
>
> what gets me about the TE and WR drafts is that
> going into the draft, everyone know we had needs
> at those positions, and that it was an amazingly
> deep draft at those positions, yet we came away
> with nothing and even doubled down on other
> positons like DB.

Exactly right...


Those were saban cameron wanny years do not remind me.

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Davis could definitely use some tackling lessons


i think thats one of his strenghs. He is just too inconsistent though.

Vontae is our best CB, just because he doesnt shine in training camp doesn;t mean anything. The guy is a gamer, and if you have a number #1 reciever on the opposing team, you want Vontae to cover him before anyone else on our team... Why do u think Steve Smith was so frustrated when Vontae was covering him... And then as soon as Vontae was taken out and off of him, what happened, he caught passes. When Vontae was on him he didnt catch anything... WHen I go to the games, I like to watch Vontae, and guess what, QB's very rarely throw in Vontae's direction... If the colts got Vontae for a second, that would be a steal and a foolish move by us IMO..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I sincerely doubt there is anything to these vontea davis trade rumors. This all stemmed from that publicity seeking owner Jim Irsay tweeting about a "big trade" in the works for a vet. So local reporters start speculating (guess) who on the phins could be someone who could be traded and landed on V Davis. Totally just a made up rumor. Not even Ireland is that dumb

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

At least we hope not, berk.

we shall see

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes, let's keep taking players in the 1st round
> and trade them for 2d round picks, trading for
> players using 2 number 2s, and giving them up for
> 2 #3s, etc etc
>
> Is it any wonder this team sucks?


There's lots of reasons this team has sucked for so long Berk, and you are right that bad drafting is chief among them.

But that has nothing to do with the question of whether to keep Davis or trade him. The drafting part of his process is long past.

You have two young, starting caliber CB's that are free agents at the end of the year.

Neither has lived up to their potential yet but both are going to be looking for big paydays shortly.

Conventional wisdom is that you can't afford to sign both.

If you decide one of them isn't in your teams long term plans doesn't it make sense to consider trading him if the offer is a good one?

Think of it like a car. You bought a car 3 years ago for $25k. You relied on it for 4 years as a vital part of your life. It was cool when you first bought it, now its not what you need, or hoped it would be. After 30,000 miles its still in terrific condition but ...but you are looking to upgrade.

If somebody offers you $20k for that car are you going to say "no way...can't sell it for less than I paid for it 3 years ago." ??

Truth, both Smith and Davis do not become free agents after this year. Sean Smith signed a 4 year deal, Vontae signed a 5 year deal.
Also, Davis has come alot closer to living up to potential then Smith by far at this point in their respective careers.. Trading Davis who is signed until 2013 makes zero sense to me... Maybe you dont resign Smith after this year before you trade Davis...

Sean Smith 4 years for 3.116 million
Vontae Davis 5 years for 10.25 million

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/24/2012 10:56AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth, both Smith and Davis do not become free
> agents after this year. Sean Smith signed a 4 year
> deal, Vontae signed a 5 year deal.
> Also, Davis has come alot closer to living up to
> potential then Smith by far at this point in their
> respective careers.. Trading Davis who is signed
> until 2013 makes zero sense to me... Maybe you
> dont resign Smith after this year before you trade
> Davis...
>
> Sean Smith 4 years for 3.116 million
> Vontae Davis 5 years for 10.25 million


Good point Crowder.

I thought it was a 4 year deal. If its a five year deal then it changes the equation. It makes more sense to hang onto him unless you (the staff and FO) don't think he's a fit in your system and won't be successful in it (for whatever reason) and therefore his trade value will never be higher.

Be interesting to see how it plays out.

Maybe they'll trade us Fleener for him straight up... lol...

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yes, let's keep taking players in the 1st round
> > and trade them for 2d round picks, trading for
> > players using 2 number 2s, and giving them up
> for
> > 2 #3s, etc etc
> >
> > Is it any wonder this team sucks?
>
>
> There's lots of reasons this team has sucked for
> so long Berk, and you are right that bad drafting
> is chief among them.
>
> But that has nothing to do with the question of
> whether to keep Davis or trade him. The drafting
> part of his process is long past.
>
> You have two young, starting caliber CB's that are
> free agents at the end of the year.
>
> Neither has lived up to their potential yet but
> both are going to be looking for big paydays
> shortly.
>
> Conventional wisdom is that you can't afford to
> sign both.
>
> If you decide one of them isn't in your teams long
> term plans doesn't it make sense to consider
> trading him if the offer is a good one?
>
> Think of it like a car. You bought a car 3 years
> ago for $25k. You relied on it for 4 years as a
> vital part of your life. It was cool when you
> first bought it, now its not what you need, or
> hoped it would be. After 30,000 miles its still
> in terrific condition but ...but you are looking
> to upgrade.
>
> If somebody offers you $20k for that car are you
> going to say "no way...can't sell it for less than
> I paid for it 3 years ago." ??


I agree.

I don't believe we will trade Davis, but we will know for sure tonight whether he is on the market or not. If he plays then it is a rumor, if he doesn't play then Ireland is negotiating.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yes, let's keep taking players in the 1st round
> > and trade them for 2d round picks, trading for
> > players using 2 number 2s, and giving them up
> for
> > 2 #3s, etc etc
> >
> > Is it any wonder this team sucks?
>
>
> There's lots of reasons this team has sucked for
> so long Berk, and you are right that bad drafting
> is chief among them.
>
> But that has nothing to do with the question of
> whether to keep Davis or trade him. The drafting
> part of his process is long past.
>
> You have two young, starting caliber CB's that are
> free agents at the end of the year.
>
> Neither has lived up to their potential yet but
> both are going to be looking for big paydays
> shortly.
>
> Conventional wisdom is that you can't afford to
> sign both.
>
> If you decide one of them isn't in your teams long
> term plans doesn't it make sense to consider
> trading him if the offer is a good one?
>
> Think of it like a car. You bought a car 3 years
> ago for $25k. You relied on it for 4 years as a
> vital part of your life. It was cool when you
> first bought it, now its not what you need, or
> hoped it would be. After 30,000 miles its still
> in terrific condition but ...but you are looking
> to upgrade.
>
> If somebody offers you $20k for that car are you
> going to say "no way...can't sell it for less than
> I paid for it 3 years ago." ??


But Vontea still has great upside. He's like his brother, an average player when his mind is not right, but a true talent and potential super star when motivated. The answer is to motivate the guy, not "sell low" after benching him (which too me seemed like a motivational ploy anyway). Trading him is the absolute worst thing we could do. Have you seen our defense?

We are like the anti-Patriots: get rid of players too early for too little, as opposed to at the right time for too much.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.