If we don't get Fisher its going to be for one reason and one reason only. It will be for the very same reason that Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher had zero interest in coaching our team. And that reason is this:

We don't have a franchise QB or a young, highly regarded QB prospect that they can develop into one.


I'm just curious, but is there really anyone on this board, who after 13 years of mediocrity with journeyman/cast off QB's, 2nd round "projects" and all other types of half hearted attempts to find a Franchise guy... who after watching Saban run for the nearest exit and every good/great established HC tell us "no thanks"....is there really ANYONE left on the island of misfit football fans clinging to the idea that we don't need to invest whatever it takes to get an elite prospect or established Franchise QB? Or that that shouldn't be the VERY first step in rebuilding a franchise?


Just curious...

F Them. part of the challenge is finding that QB. If they are not up to that challenge I'm cool with them passing. I only wish Jimmy Johnson and Saban had done the same if they couldn't handle it. Lets get a HC with some heart who can handle it Long term.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we don't get Fisher its going to be for one
> reason and one reason only. It will be for the
> very same reason that Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher
> had zero interest in coaching our team. And that
> reason is this:
>
> We don't have a franchise QB or a young, highly
> regarded QB prospect that they can develop into
> one.
>
>
> I'm just curious, but is there really anyone on
> this board, who after 13 years of mediocrity with
> journeyman/cast off QB's, 2nd round "projects" and
> all other types of half hearted attempts to find a
> Franchise guy... who after watching Saban run for
> the nearest exit and every good/great established
> HC tell us "no thanks"....is there really ANYONE
> left on the island of misfit football fans
> clinging to the idea that we don't need to invest
> whatever it takes to get an elite prospect or
> established Franchise QB? Or that that shouldn't
> be the VERY first step in rebuilding a franchise?
>
>
> Just curious...

I think the reason they don't want to come here is because of Ross.

Cowher- B. Cowher always preaches you don't speak to other coaches while one currently holds the job.

Fisher- Stated he felt betrayed by B. Adams.

Ross committed the ultimate betrayal to a coach by what he did to Sparano.

I would also say it was why J. Harbaugh declined.

Actually it is also because in STL he get to choose his GM and team also and isn't inheriting an unsuccessful team

In reality the coach and GM and Mgmt all need to be on the same page to be successful

Don't fool yourselves, the rams are just as inept as us. They are however in a much easier division and like the Truth said, have a young franchise type QB to work with.

sleekdogg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If we don't get Fisher its going to be for one
> > reason and one reason only. It will be for the
> > very same reason that Jon Gruden and Bill
> Cowher
> > had zero interest in coaching our team. And
> that
> > reason is this:
> >
> > We don't have a franchise QB or a young, highly
> > regarded QB prospect that they can develop into
> > one.
> >
> >
> > I'm just curious, but is there really anyone on
> > this board, who after 13 years of mediocrity
> with
> > journeyman/cast off QB's, 2nd round "projects"
> and
> > all other types of half hearted attempts to find
> a
> > Franchise guy... who after watching Saban run
> for
> > the nearest exit and every good/great
> established
> > HC tell us "no thanks"....is there really
> ANYONE
> > left on the island of misfit football fans
> > clinging to the idea that we don't need to
> invest
> > whatever it takes to get an elite prospect or
> > established Franchise QB? Or that that
> shouldn't
> > be the VERY first step in rebuilding a
> franchise?
> >
> >
> > Just curious...
>
> I think the reason they don't want to come here is
> because of Ross.
>
> Cowher- B. Cowher always preaches you don't speak
> to other coaches while one currently holds the
> job.
>
> Fisher- Stated he felt betrayed by B. Adams.
>
> Ross committed the ultimate betrayal to a coach by
> what he did to Sparano.
>
> I would also say it was why J. Harbaugh declined.


Coaches LOVE owners with deep pockets and a desire to win. Especially when they are willing to turn over total control of personnel.

Ross isn't the problem here.

Yes he made a rookie mistake talking to Harbaugh before letting Sparano go.

But if you think Harbaugh, Gruden or Fisher have turned us down because of that you must have a strong dislike of Ross


These guys are ESTABLISHED coaches, in high demand and they have a track record/legacy to protect and to improve upon.

NONE of them is looking for a rebuilding project from the ground up. And that is exactly what you get when you sign on with a team like our that has no FRANCHISE QB. They know that.

Ross is not the problem here. Not by a long shot.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coaches LOVE owners with deep pockets and a desire
> to win. Especially when they are willing to turn
> over total control of personnel.
>
> Ross isn't the problem here.
>
> Yes he made a rookie mistake talking to Harbaugh
> before letting Sparano go.
>
> But if you think Harbaugh, Gruden or Fisher have
> turned us down because of that you must have a
> strong dislike of Ross
>
>
> These guys are ESTABLISHED coaches, in high demand
> and they have a track record/legacy to protect and
> to improve upon.
>
> NONE of them is looking for a rebuilding project
> from the ground up. And that is exactly what you
> get when you sign on with a team like our that has
> no FRANCHISE QB. They know that.
>
> Ross is not the problem here. Not by a long
> shot.

If a Qb was the main concern then why wouldn't guys like Fisher, Gruden, & Cowher be interested in the Colts job. They have a proven franchise Qb in P. Manning or could use the 1st pick in the draft and could take Luck Or Rg3.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2012 08:01AM by sleekdogg.

Because the Colts job's not open yet?

sleekdogg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If a Qb was the main concern then why wouldn't
> guys like Fisher, Gruden, & Cowher be interested
> in the Colts job.


Because The colts have a head coach right now.

Hard for them to be interested in a job that isn't available, no?

I still feel a coach could not like how an owner comes across and that could sway his decision. Also family, area, staff etc. could factor in.






I don't think that a qb is the only sole factor they consider.

I seriously doubt this is all about the QB situation. If it is...then he is a total wimp.

It is normally about control.

The truth about Cowher is that is he simply is not interested in coaching ANY team.

Gruden is certainly a QB fanatic...but, the he didn't choose Tampa Bay because of Brad Johnson.

Fisher's dream job is not Miami or St Louis. But, he may prefer to be in the NFC.

Fisher may have more control in St Louis. But, he certainly is seriously considering Miami.

sleekdogg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still feel a coach could not like how an owner
> comes across and that could sway his decision.
> Also family, area, staff etc. could factor in.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I don't think that a qb is the only sole factor
> they consider.


Perhaps. Its certainly possible that with SOME coaches, it could be a deciding factor. But not across the board.

Ross just isn't that bad a guy.

Sure he made a mistake last year but he owned up to it, paid Sparano handsomely as an apology and handled his termination this year in an appropriate and professional manner.

What more can you ask from a newby owner? Are you going to brand him for a rookie mistake? QB's like Aikman go 0-fer their rookie year but they learn and end up in the HOF.

A rookie owner can't learn? C'mon.

Negatives for Ross: He's a neophyte owner and didn't understand the in and outs of the NFL when he went after Harbaugh.

That's it. From a prospective employee's perspective, he has no other issues.

Positives:
- Wants to win
- Willing to spend what it takes to win
- not concerned with making business hugely profitable.
- Very wealthy. Ok with team eating their mistakes and moving on despite the cost.
- Doesn't interfere in personnel (ala Jerry Jones)or day to day operations.
- HE'S A NEOPHYTE OWNER that an experienced coach can mold a partnership with. (yes its a positive and a weakness).


Look, there are always contributing factors in any decision like this, and whether you like or respect your boss can certainly be one of them.

But there's also almost ALWAYS one key determining factor (location, money, opportunity for success, control, etc) that makes you take or decline the opportunity.

And that one single determining factor for us isn't Ross. In fact in most cases he'll be considered an asset.

The one thing a veteran coach wants is a team that he can win with and win quickly.

That means they want a team with a franchise QB, a young stud prospect they believe they can turn into a franchise QB or the ability to draft one.

We just don't have that. Until we do, no elite coach is going to pick us over an opportunity that gives them that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2012 09:20AM by THE Truth.

A lot of reports today on Twitter that its a done deal he's going to the Rams, this could also be his agents trying to get Ross to up his offer.....until he holds a press conference, I don't believe anything.

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> At least the Phins are interview a lot of
> candidates, and doing it quickly.


I truly hope they don't do it quickly.

My favorite candidates probably aren't going to be available for a few weeks, maybe longer.

Once Fisher is out of the equation, the "quick strike" mentality needs to be changed to a more methodical, and intensive search to ensure we interview as many of the top candidates as possible before making our choice.

No need to rush things and settle for the fist guy that shows any interest.

Lets take our time and get it right.

Rams already interviewing titans folks for their gm spot. So long fisher. But at least we have that fantastic Jeff Ireland !

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> If the Colts indeed keep their coach and the Rams
> hire Fisher, then we can certainly afford to wait.
> At that point Miami becomes the most favorable
> destination for any prospective coach.


Exactly.

Once Fisher is off the board the dynamics change.

Established head coaches primary concern is finding a team they can win with right away...meaning one that has or can get a QB.

Coordinators are looking to get paid and get an opportunity that they can turn into a career that makes them an elite coach.

From that perspective, having South Beach, an owner with deep pockets who doesn't want to be a GM and a talented roster (with no QB ) is an enticing opportunity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2012 10:40AM by THE Truth.

The combination of having a franchise QB and also the 2nd pick in the draft this year is pretty powerful. If Fisher doesn't like Bradford, they can upgrade. More likely, they'll trade that pick to a team like Washington for multiple picks.

Plus being able to bring in his own people in the FO is huge. When you think about taking any new job, one of the biggest things you think about is the people you'd be working with (especially above you).

Ross is probably offering a lot more money, hence the indecision.

slipstream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The combination of having a franchise QB and also
> the 2nd pick in the draft this year is pretty
> powerful. If Fisher doesn't like Bradford, they
> can upgrade. More likely, they'll trade that pick
> to a team like Washington for multiple picks.
>
> Plus being able to bring in his own people in the
> FO is huge. When you think about taking any new
> job, one of the biggest things you think about is
> the people you'd be working with (especially above
> you).
>
> Ross is probably offering a lot more money, hence
> the indecision.


Sounds about right to me.

They are not here because in today's NFL, you win and lose on the shoulders of your QB.

Any Coach in their right mind would stay away from here and easily choose St. Louis over us.

We will tell Fisher's IQ real soon, if he picks St. Louis, he is smart. If he picks us, he is dumb.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

No, if he picks us he is greedy. $$

I don't want a coach that will only go to a team with a franchise QB to cover for them and make things easy. I want a coach that thinks he can FIND a franchise QB for us and help rebuild this organization.

You have to be kidding me. Any proven Head Coach like Fisher, Cowher, and Gruden are only going to places with franchise QB's.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

There are a number of reasons why Fisher isn't going to pick Miami over St. Louis.

Yes, St. Louis has Sam Bradford, who has tons of potential, but still needs work (check out his awful yards per attempt). But, QB isn't necessarily the main reason why Fisher won't choose Miami.

Fisher is a defensive guy, and he has run a 4-3 his entire career. The Rams already run a 4-3. We don't. And we don't have some of the personnel needed to run it. Odrick, Starks, and McDaniel (and Langford, if he is re-signed) would all be DT in a 4-3. Cam Wake would transition to DE, but you really have no idea how he'd hold up in run defense at the position. We have no one else that fits as a 4-3 DE. So, you'd be looking at adding at least 2 guys there. We don't have a pure MLB, a sideline to sideline type player to man the middle. When Arizona ran a 4-3, Dansby played weakside LB. Kevin Burnett never made an impact as an OLB in the 3-4, but has found his niche inside, a position that requires less range in run defense. He can run with TEs, so he could fit as the strong side guy, but its speculation. We'd have a glaring hole in the middle.

On offense, Fisher has usually had some variant of the west coast offense. That would be a major learning curve for most of our players, including Matt Moore. So, you could wind up negating whatever gains Moore had made by making him learn an entirely new system. He's played in Charlie Weis based system his whole career. The Rams ran a west coast offense in 2010, so it wouldn't be as much of adjustment for them.

With the #2 pick in the draft, the Rams are in a great position to auction off that pick for multiple picks to build with. They could trade down just a few spots and pick up a second rounder and a #1 for next year. Peter King thinks they may be able to get 3 1st rounders for their pick.

The Dolphins have more cap space for 2012 than the Rams do. But, the Rams project to have $45M in cap space in 2013, more than any other team. That gives the Rams the flexibility to do some long term deals with young players they want to lock up. Any new coach is going to do some house cleaning in his first year. And house cleaning means eating some contracts and taking cap hits. So, that 2nd year's cap space is really key. And the Rams are in a great spot for 2013.

Let's face it. Fisher is using our interest and Ross' deep pockets as a way to drive up the value of his contract with the Rams. That's it, plain and simple.

So be it...I'm not enamored with him.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are a number of reasons why Fisher isn't
> going to pick Miami over St. Louis.

not really.


>
> Yes, St. Louis has Sam Bradford, who has tons of
> potential, but still needs work (check out his
> awful yards per attempt). But, QB isn't
> necessarily the main reason why Fisher won't
> choose Miami.


Sure it is. Its the underlying lynchpin of the rest of your points.


>
> Fisher is a defensive guy, and he has run a 4-3
> his entire career. The Rams already run a 4-3. We
> don't. And we don't have some of the personnel
> needed to run it. Odrick, Starks, and McDaniel
> (and Langford, if he is re-signed) would all be DT
> in a 4-3. Cam Wake would transition to DE, but you
> really have no idea how he'd hold up in run
> defense at the position. We have no one else that
> fits as a 4-3 DE. So, you'd be looking at adding
> at least 2 guys there. We don't have a pure MLB, a
> sideline to sideline type player to man the
> middle. When Arizona ran a 4-3, Dansby played
> weakside LB. Kevin Burnett never made an impact as
> an OLB in the 3-4, but has found his niche inside,
> a position that requires less range in run
> defense. He can run with TEs, so he could fit as
> the strong side guy, but its speculation. We'd
> have a glaring hole in the middle.


Defenses can be remade in a year or two. Its not a reason to PASS on a job.

Could it be a factor?...sure. But if we had Philip Rivers or the top pick in the draft, do you really think Fisher would be more interested in taking less money at St Louis just because they have more 4-3 defensive personnel?

Of course not, you are way to smart of a poster to think that would be the case.


>
> On offense, Fisher has usually had some variant of
> the west coast offense. That would be a major
> learning curve for most of our players, including
> Matt Moore. So, you could wind up negating
> whatever gains Moore had made by making him learn
> an entirely new system. He's played in Charlie
> Weis based system his whole career. The Rams ran a
> west coast offense in 2010, so it wouldn't be as
> much of adjustment for them.


No matter what job he takes, he's bringing in his own OC and installing his own offense.

The notion that Moore isn't a positive because he's not a west coast offense guy just supports the argument that QB is the biggest part of the equation.

As for the rest of the players...c'mon...its just another offense for them.

Are you really suggesting that he'd take an offense with far lesser talent just because those guys had more exposure to the west coast concept, even thought they couldn't execute it?





> With the #2 pick in the draft, the Rams are in a
> great position to auction off that pick for
> multiple picks to build with. They could trade
> down just a few spots and pick up a second rounder
> and a #1 for next year. Peter King thinks they may
> be able to get 3 1st rounders for their pick.



Yes, but if they didn't have Bradford...would you even be bringing up that point?

Or if we had the first pick and could take our choice of Luck or RGIII...?



>
> The Dolphins have more cap space for 2012 than the
> Rams do. But, the Rams project to have $45M in cap
> space in 2013, more than any other team. That
> gives the Rams the flexibility to do some long
> term deals with young players they want to lock
> up. Any new coach is going to do some house
> cleaning in his first year. And house cleaning
> means eating some contracts and taking cap hits.
> So, that 2nd year's cap space is really key. And
> the Rams are in a great spot for 2013.
>
> Let's face it. Fisher is using our interest and
> Ross' deep pockets as a way to drive up the value
> of his contract with the Rams. That's it, plain
> and simple.


Yes, Fisher is using us to drive up the price at hat he perceives to be a better opportunity.

But WHY does he perceive that to be a better opportunity?

Answer: Sam Bradford and the #2 pick versus Matt Moore and the #8/9 pick.

In St Louis he can go forward with a young, highly regarded prospect already at QB or he can go get RGIII or Andrew Luck.

With us...He's got Matt Moore and the hope that we can sign Matt Flynn.

All the rest of it...4-3 vs 3-4, Cap space, west coast offense is window dressing.

If we had the top pick, or an established franchise QB like Rivers he'd already have inked his deal with us.

Our franchise is in turmoil.

I am starting to think that we are no longer a prized job. We are in the bottom 10 of coaching jobs.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our franchise is in turmoil.
>
> I am starting to think that we are no longer a
> prized job. We are in the bottom 10 of coaching
> jobs.


I disagree with that description.

Not in turmoil...in transition.

We have a good base of talent. We lack direction, and leadership on the sidelines and on the field (QB ).

That can be said about any team with no QB and no playoff appearance.

We all knew we'd be shopping for a coach this year.

The fact that the top, elite, experienced coaches passed on us should be no surprise since we have no QB and arent in a position to draft one.

Now you do what all teams do in this position...hire the best up and coming assistant you possibly can and tell your GM to go get him a QB ASAP.


If we came out of this with Mike Mularkey at HC, I'd agree with you....but I just don't see that happening.





That means



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2012 09:13AM by THE Truth.