Tony Sparano is now 29-31.

This is his first year completely out of Parcell's shadow.

Bill Belicheck....as the Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns was 36-44

Bill's first season with the Pats was 5-11.

Is it possible...that we already have a new coach?

Maybe, Tony S. was working too hard to fit the pattern of the Parcell's tree, that he wasn't being the best Sparano? Maybe the 0-7 start allowed him to say "F--% it" and just coach by the seat of his pants?



Also....doesn't Ross own part of the 0-7 start? Really...aside from the short off-season...that plane flight to get Harbaugh had to have a negative effect on Tony's effectiveness.

Is it not reasonable for Tony to say to his boss..."Mr. Ross....you basically told the players that you have no faith in me, that you don't expect us to win. I humbly suggest sir...that you helped us to our 0-7 start. Now that I've pulled the team together.....let's get the final pieces and finish this project."


If we finish 8-8....in a convincing fashion. If we beat the Bill,s Pats, and Jets in our final run.....he HAS to stay.

Nothing will change with this franchise until we get a franchise Qb.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

so we are giving tony the credit for winning 4 of the last 5 but not the blame for 0-7? at the beginning of the year everyone knew 7-9 and no playoffs would get him fired. guess what? that is the best case scenrario for this team this season. what's changed, other than the team absolutely crapped the bed the first 7 games of the year? don't see how digging out of a hole he helped create can possibly be a mark in his favor.

yes, we do need to draft a QB.....

BUT...the end goal has to be....the ability to beat the Bill, Jets, and Pats.

If Sparano can take an 0-7 team and turn them around, and along with Daboll use Matt Moore to beat the teams in our division....then keeping him, and giving him some upgrades puts us in a great spot to make the play-offs.

Start Moore, who is playing as well as you could hope and better than we expected, and draft a QB and let him learn.

Sparano has impressed me with his new incarnation.

I'll give '08 to Parcells, but it's been Sparano's team since '09. I still have trouble believing he's made such a drastic change in the last few weeks that he wasn't able to make in the last 2 years. I'm not sure what's changed, but I'm still not convinced Sparano can take us to the big dance. I'm also not convinced about Matt Moore, but you could say the same about him!

I think sparano FINALLY realizes that you let the offensive coordinator do his thing. Stop telling him not to pass and just pound the rock. Stop powering down when you get the plus 40 and kick a 50 yard field goal. Stop celebrating so hard when we are first and goal at the 3 and cant get a TD and kick a 10 yard field goal. just coach man, i like the run. Personally i think sparano moving away from what is ok to call is the difference. he is starting to understand that you pass and put teams away early.

I do give him some slack.

Would you say that Ross trying to hire Harbaugh, extending Ireland's contract but not Tony's is a 'non-factor'? It was pretty news worthy. I think most people would agree that it would have a negative effect on the team's performance.

Having a new OC with a shortened off-season? Neutral? If you look at the teams that had a change at HC, OC, or QB they all struggled early. The shortened off-season was an advantage to teams with continuity in those spots. Would you disagree?

Losing your starter, and having to play a career back-up who was signed July 28th, and had little time to learn the new OC's system has a negative impact as well. Definitely not a preferred situation.

Who picked Dan Henning? Parcells hired Henning before Sparano.
Who drafted Henne? Not Tony S. and not Jeff Ireland either. Henne fit the 'Parcell's formula'

Who drafted Pat White? Parcells. John Jerry? Parcells.

So...Parcell's left, Henning is fired, No QB brought in to compete with Henne. Ross flies across the country basically saying I want a new coach. No big ticket free agents are signed. No established OC is interested in coming ....so Brian Daboll comes in. NO June camps, shortened training camp, and a last minute QB siging.

Or 0-7 start is a product of shortened TC, castrated HC, new OC, and injury to the starting QB in week 4.

Moore's 1st start was a weak one. But after that we were within 3 points in 2 losses and 1 point in the Dallas.

I think it makes more sense to judge Tony Sparano more on how he adapted to the product of a horrible situation than the initial impact of that horrible situation.

If they win convincingly against the Bills, Jets and Pats...? He will have done what Wanny, Saban, Cameron, and the Tunaphins failed to do.

Bill Parcells walked away in October of last season...knowing that HE failed. HIS failures tainted everyone under him. This is Tony's first season on his own...no Tuna. This season says more about him than any other.

If they finish 8-8 with convincing wins? Tony Sparano will have emerged from the shadow of the Tuna, his own man. A better Head Coach than when he started. A winner. Which is what we want.

Nicely said there realist.

Parcells left in Oct. 2010.
Henning was his hire and was fired at the end of 2010.

This is year 1 of Tony Sparano 'hold the Tuna'

Irrespective of why it took so long to make changes...he has made them and he is getting more from these players than any of us expected.

Things aren't perfect...but they are looking pretty good. And they are improving.

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do give him some slack.
> > If they finish 8-8 with convincing wins? Tony
> Sparano will have emerged from the shadow of the
> Tuna, his own man. A better Head Coach than when
> he started. A winner. Which is what we want.




8-8 a Winner!? Really?

You forget abouty the begining of the season too easily. I was there when we played Da Broncos. The Clock managment alone was the worst I've ever seen. Sorry I can't forget a 10 game losing streak stemming from the last season that easily. You guys don't get it. This is why Miami hasn't won a Superbowl in almost 40 yrs. You all love the mediocrity.

Thanks. I was not in favor of keeping him. Even last week, I felt sorry for him but felt he had too many flaws to overcome. But..we all learn from our mistakes...and sometimes we need others to step up and play/coach well enough that our flaws don't come in to play.

If the QB hits the open guy in the Red Zone...then FG's aren't a Sparano flaw.

If the OC uses the talent on the roster properly...then more people make plays the opponent is looking for answers.

Tony has done something that allows Nolan and Daboll to do a better job, and they are getting more out of this roster.

After yesterday's domination of the Raiders....I changed my mind to 'maybe he should stay'

Now...if we lose to the Bills,Pats or Jets? I will re-assess based on how and why we lost.

But.. if we beat the Bills, Jets and Pats? I say YES he should stay.

every team had to deal with the lockout, so I give us not one iota of slack for that. many teams had to deal with new coaches and/or coordinators in the short offseason, and some, like SF, have thrived regardless. we kept the same staff and same players and just changed OC, and started 0-7. again, not an ounce of slack for that.

as for the ross fiasco this offseason, yes that undermined tony big time, no doubt. but the fact remains as shown in the last few games, this team is capable of winning, yet still started 0-7. So if tony is such a great motivator, why did it take him 7 games to start motivating? He was still undermined this offseason, at 0-0 and at 0-7.

henning was totally horrible, but tony could have overriden him, marganlized him, or tried to replace him at any point in the last 3 years he was there. He did not, and let him run horrible plays that even us fans could see coming from a mile away. As for henne's injury, this was the best thing that could have happened to us. Henne was Sporano's Jey Feidler---he wasnt' going to do squat to fix the glaring issue at QB. When he got hurt, had had to put in a QB who is playing much better than Henne ever did in the ways that matter most, so I won't say we "overcame" that injury, more like the injury helped tony make a good decision (Moore for Henne) he wouldn't have ordinarily made.

I see all of this as excuses. I have no confidence if we keep sparano next year won't be more of the same---another nonplayoff .500 type year. And the fans will stay away in droves, and ultimately this is what will prompt Ross to get a new coach. Not sure if any coach we get will be any great shakes either, but this seems like a case where change for change sake is going to happen. Can't say I would disagree with it.

Moore has played well. He has been accurate, efficient, and has not made many mistakes...what more do we want? No he isn't a Brady, Manning, Brees or Rodgers but news, flash neither were they, until they got the chance to start and improve. I'm not saying that he should be anointed the savior of the team, and we do need to draft a QB, but he has definately earned a spot on this roster. As far as talent goes, we have a lot of it but yes, we need more...such as a big, FAST WR because Hartline isn't doing enough. A dominating free saftey, and a dominating, pass rushing LB that can actually cover a TE. As far as the O-line goes we need quality depth at this point. I think Jerry played well yesterday, hopefully he'll continue playing well and go a long way toward curing the right side of the line problem.

Ireland has done a good job since freed of Parcells' shackles...Thomas was a very good pick up, Bush has far exceeded expectations, Clay is looking better and better, Pouncey was a great pick and Wilson as well, so far.

Sparano has done a great job of rallying the troops and getting people to play hard, the aquisition of Brian Daboll has been a good one, who thought he actually knew what he was doing when he was hired.

Not saying Sparano should be retained but he has done a far, far, better than expected job over the last five weeks. Another thing, this team has been in every game this season, save one. Sparano deserves some credit for that. Maybe, just maybe, stability with the coaches will allow the team to continue its quest for the playoffs.

The only ex-coach I'd replace Sparano with is Gruden.

As for Cowher...I'm not sure he has the drive anymore, and not sure he'll spend the time required to get the job done.

A for some others, Fisher, not sold on him as the right guy. Billick, no way. Ryan, no way. Martz, heck no, Marriuci, no. The only other guy I'd consider is Joe Philbin...and he has not proven he can be a HC so no guarantee he'd be any better than what we have now.

Like I said before about Sparano; he’s a journeymen football mechanic, NOT an engineer. He brings NOTHING special to either side of the football, and the best you can say about him is that he’s a plodder and keeps at it – and apparently the players like him enough to support him. But let’s get real, what’s being reported in the media now is the fact that the team collectively REVOLTED against Baby T and left him alone in the parking lot eating cold pizza. So what has he done specifically that warrants his continued “leadership” of this team?

The “turnaround” is being credited to the fact Baby T backed off and a few vets circled the wagons around the fact they want to have “FUN” and enjoy football – which is easy when the games are meaningless. So the psychology of the team is – once the pressure is off and the competition softens, they’ll come out and ambush a few teams and have “fun.” Great. And of course the fans are having a lot of fun in that mix as well. Not!

Tony Sparano seems like a really solid guy and someone with solid character and probably an incredibly hard worker. If we keep him, his character/hard work is the ONLY justifiable reason because:

1) he’s been VERY INCONSISTENT as a game day coach.
2) he’s not an innovator in game tactics and/or strategy and fundamentally lacks a creative football mind.
3 he’s obviously misread the team chemistry/psychology more than once and may not be all that intuitive in terms of team dynamics.

On the positive side, the guy is still ramping up as a HC and maybe he can grow and learn? But I don’t think he’s going to develop an innovative football mind or increase his IQ any time soon. He is what he is. I think we could do a lot better. But yea, worse is possible as well.

BNF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 08:15AM by BigNastyFish.

I'm on the fence with Tony right now, if he keeps winning and Ross keeps him, I guess i'll be OK with that, but let me ask you guys 2 questions;

1. If/when Tony gets fired, do you honestly believe he'll be on anyones short list as an NFL HC any time soon?

2. In the 4 yrs he's been here now, has there been 1 game that you felt like he was the difference? In other words, has he out-coached anyone in 4 yrs?

If the alternative is a Norv Turner or Wade Philips type retread (that's TREAD not TARD), then by all means give Tony another shot. But if we can get a Fisher/Gruden/Reid type......see ya later Tony.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Moore has played well. He has been accurate,
> efficient, and has not made many mistakes...what
> more do we want? No he isn't a Brady, Manning,
> Brees or Rodgers but news, flash neither were
> they, until they got the chance to start and
> improve.
Actually, Manning was good from day 1, but he played on a crappy team as a rookie. Brees and Rodgers are closer descriptions, but they started for the team that drafted them. They were also drafted high. Brady is a one-in-a-million drafted in the 6th round.


> As far as talent goes, we have a lot of it
> but yes, we need more...such as a big, FAST WR
> because Hartline isn't doing enough.
We have one: Clyde Gates. He had a nice punt return yesterday, and he's SUPER fast. But we need to find a way of working him in to see what he can really do. So far we've been using him as a runner in the open field. Maybe he doesn't know how to run routes because he's relied on his speed his entire career?? I'm hoping he can learn from Bess and Hartline, who are both great route runners.

> As far as the O-line
> goes we need quality depth at this point. I think
> Jerry played well yesterday, hopefully he'll
> continue playing well and go a long way toward
> curing the right side of the line problem.
My question, what's up with RT? Did Columbo pull a Dr. Jeckell/Mr. Hyde on us? I'm not sold on our RT.

This is a job that he's had to learn on the fly the hard way. It's not like he was a HC elsewhere getting the big bucks and brought here to have an instant brilliant coaching mind.

On top of that, he's passionately doing what he's doing now with doom looming on the horizon. During an interview after the Dallas game, he was asked about the multiple penalties that Jake Long committed. His reply was "We'll be happy that he's on this team next year...umm...You'll be happy that he's on this team next year".

In all honesty, I'd like to see how well the man could coach knowing that he won't be unemployed here next season. I have to give the man some credit for how well he's keeping his mind on his team and taking one week at a time and not giving up. He's coaching his balls off right now, and the reaction from his players are living proof.

I wouldn't mind if Mr. Ross gives Tony a chance to coach a full season under normal circumstances, provided he keeps this team competitive the remainder of this one.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2. In the 4 yrs he's been here now, has there been
> 1 game that you felt like he was the difference?
> In other words, has he out-coached anyone in 4
> yrs?
>
One...the Pats game in '08 when we unleashed the Wildcat. Tony thoroughly out-coached Belichick in that game. But, that's ONE and only ONE.

Good call Monty, I forgot about that one

how quickly everyone forgets about the Dallas game on Thanksgiving.

I still think he took a $100 K from Jerry Jones to purposely lose that game

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The “turnaround” is being credited to the fact
> Baby T backed off and a few vets circled the
> wagons around the fact they want to have “FUN”
> and enjoy football – which is easy when the
> games are meaningless. So the psychology of the
> team is – once the pressure is off and the
> competition softens, they’ll come out and ambush
> a few teams and have “fun.” Great. And of
> course the fans are having a lot of fun in that
> mix as well. Not!
>

I think this statement nails it

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> realist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > If Sparano can take an 0-7 team and turn them
> around, and along with Daboll use Matt Moore to
> > beat the teams in our division....then keeping
> > him, and giving him some upgrades puts us in a
> > great spot to make the play-offs.
>
> This would be a great point if Sparano HAD BEEN
> HIRED TO COACH WHEN WE WERE 0-7. Of course, the
> truth is that he was the coach for every one of
> those games and he STARTED THE YEAR 0-0 AND led us
> to a 0-7 record.


yup, this too.

Lots of good points pro and con Sparano here. Interesting to read.

It's really been tough sticking with this team as a fan through the thick and thin of things with this franchise. We've all had to endure a lot of pain over the last decade that's for sure.

Those are all really solid points. I would agree with your assessment over-all.

But I would argue that the 'best' coaches were also 'lucky' coaches.
truly great coaches like Don Shula and Bill Walsh are rare, and they were effective in a certain era.

Bill Parcells was a hard ass who got lucky a couple times. Some of his best players he did not even want.

Belicheck was lucky that a 6th rounder turned out to be a HOFer. Take Brady away, and Belichek is not so special.

Cowher wasn't consistently very good or great...some years he was 'ok'

Gruden too, he came to a team that was primed to win...and they did. But when the talent level dipped...so did Gruden's effectiveness.

So...if Sparano has the guys playing at a high level?....Then maybe this is his limited window?

What I think Sparano does smart......, deferring kick off's to the second half, building a strong defense that can stop the opposing offense on the opening drive, and then have an offense that can control the clock and win the time of possesion game... Second half starts, with your offense on the field. Giving you a chance to either lead with a good 3qt opening drive or to make up ground, or to further seperate yourself with a scoring drive... Smart football and good coaching... If you notice, between the last drive of the second half if we hold the ball and score at least a field goal. Then score on the opening drive of the second it gives your team a chance for a 14 pt swing before the other team's offense even gets to touch the ball.. You also get to let your defense rest a little longer coming out of halftime and get the time of possesion game working in your favor for the second half right out of the gate..... You also take the opposing QB's momentum out of the game if you are able to do this and keep him on the bench for the majority of the 3rd QT after 25 mins for halftime.....
Tony is a smart coach with a smart philosophy, he is a little to conservative, that has been his problem... The problem our team has, is execution, not gameplans, that is for sure..... Although that conservative nature is what made us lose the Dallas game IMO...SOmetiems you have to pass to close out the game with 1st downs, rather then rely on running the ball and clock out and not getting 1st downs by doing so.... But overall I think Tony is a good young coach.....

I disagree Crowder that Sparano is a “smart” coach. He’s a formula dude and brings nothing (ZERO) to the table in terms of offensive OR defensive BRILLIANCE. He’s NOT innovative. And no one is going to mistake him for a luminary with X’s and O’s on either side of the football IMO.

And his area of expertise, being OL, has not lived up to the standards his breed of football is predicated on. Granted, part of that issue is talent acquisition, but I just don’t believe BIGGER IS BETTER is fundamentally a winning philosophy in the NFL today. The game is all about passing and spreading teams out and winning by OUTSCORING the opposition. Yea, the QB is 90% of the equation. I don’t like that kind of game, but that’s what the league is all about selling.

The HC in the NFL today has to be a great QB coach AND a brilliant offensive mind. That’s my take. And Sparano doesn’t fit the spec at all.