DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > First off, you got to know I find it funny that
> > you again shift culpability on GM duites away
> from
> > Ireland...
>
> Exactly. Ireland is her boss. She may be the
> person that sets the salary, but if Ireland (or
> Ross) said, "put the offset language in", it would
> be in.

That's the point. She's not running the show so clearly he superiors (Ireland and Ross) are allowing her to make this stand.

The question(s) is/are "WHY" and "FOR HOW LONG"?

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder52 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > First off, you got to know I find it funny
> that
> > > you again shift culpability on GM duites away
> > from
> > > Ireland...
> >
> > Exactly. Ireland is her boss. She may be the
> > person that sets the salary, but if Ireland (or
> > Ross) said, "put the offset language in", it
> would
> > be in.
>
> That's the point. She's not running the show so
> clearly he superiors (Ireland and Ross) are
> allowing her to make this stand.
>
> The question(s) is/are "WHY" and "FOR HOW LONG"?


Don't think that just because I have an "agenda" that I know these answers.

I do think this "stand" says a lot more about the team's confidence in Tannehill than it does about the structure of the negotiating team. Honestly, I don't think it matters who RT's agent's POC is... the team doesn't want to give him the same deal that every other top ten pick gets.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The key phrase here in my mind is "if we cut
> Tannehill after year 2"....
>
> Who the heck cuts top ten picks after two years?
> It is a very rare occurrence. Obviously, this
> team does not see Tannehill as a legit top ten
> pick.


Hahahaha....


yeah...no agenda...


Hahahahaha

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DolfanKing Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Crowder52 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > First off, you got to know I find it funny
> > that
> > > > you again shift culpability on GM duites
> away
> > > from
> > > > Ireland...
> > >
> > > Exactly. Ireland is her boss. She may be
> the
> > > person that sets the salary, but if Ireland
> (or
> > > Ross) said, "put the offset language in", it
> > would
> > > be in.
> >
> > That's the point. She's not running the show
> so
> > clearly he superiors (Ireland and Ross) are
> > allowing her to make this stand.
> >
> > The question(s) is/are "WHY" and "FOR HOW
> LONG"?
>
>
> Don't think that just because I have an "agenda"
> that I know these answers.
>
> I do think this "stand" says a lot more about the
> team's confidence in Tannehill than it does about
> the structure of the negotiating team. Honestly,
> I don't think it matters who RT's agent's POC
> is... the team doesn't want to give him the same
> deal that every other top ten pick gets.


Seriously...

The notion that an owner/GM who has spent the MOST money on contracts (new and cut players) in the entire league 2 of the last 4 years is making a stand on offset language because they are afraid they their 1st round QB won't make it 4 years is something only you and Crowder would come up with.

Ireland LOVES Tannehill. Its his guy. His career is tied to him. If Tannehill gets cut in two years...Ireland is GONE. He doesn't give a rats ass about offset language. He won't be around to spend any of the cap space that language would save if it was ever needed.


talk about conspiracy theories...

We are talking about league minimun money. If Tannehill got cut and we owed him 3 mill, he'd sign for league minimum and we'd get that back.

I know you don't like these guys but its lame ass posts like this that reek of an agenda...

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > The key phrase here in my mind is "if we cut
> > Tannehill after year 2"....
> >
> > Who the heck cuts top ten picks after two years?
>
> > It is a very rare occurrence. Obviously, this
> > team does not see Tannehill as a legit top ten
> > pick.
>
>
> Hahahaha....
>
>
> yeah...no agenda...
>
>
> Hahahahaha

There we go again. Break out the tinfoil hat whenever I write something you don't agree with.

I'd be great to hear why exactly you think this may be part of the "agenda" But yes, I understand it must remain a mystery agenda.... Mums the word. Keep it on the QT and such...

I agree, your theory of them making a stand, for whatever themselves, precedence, to garner favor with the league? Either that, or what A&O brought up a week or so ago, that if Tannehill misses part of camp, that puts less pressure on them to start him sooner then later. They can blame the fact he isnt ready on him missing camp.... One of the two reasons, or maybe a little of both.
It doesnt help with the players, they want him to hold out so better precedence is set for the players.
I heard Odrick say in an interview today, he wasnt worried about it, and Ryan has to do what he has to do and handle his business first. It what seem like support of Tannehills position. I dont think Ireland is well liked by players after negotiating against him, he appears to be a hard liner from several past positions and moves he has made... That is one of my biggest knocks against him... I think it is why people have the mis perception we are cheap... I dont think it is from the owner, I think it is how Ireland is, he doesnt like to give an inch or back down. He is a good business man, but it has it's downsides as well.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DolfanKing Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > The key phrase here in my mind is "if we cut
> > > Tannehill after year 2"....
> > >
> > > Who the heck cuts top ten picks after two
> years?
> >
> > > It is a very rare occurrence. Obviously,
> this
> > > team does not see Tannehill as a legit top
> ten
> > > pick.
> >
> >
> > Hahahaha....
> >
> >
> > yeah...no agenda...
> >
> >
> > Hahahahaha
>
> There we go again. Break out the tinfoil hat
> whenever I write something you don't agree with.
>
> I'd be great to hear why exactly you think this
> may be part of the "agenda" But yes, I understand
> it must remain a mystery agenda.... Mums the
> word. Keep it on the QT and such...

No..no...no...you got me all wrong.

My hat is a coconut with a propeller on top.

I use the tinfoil to line my diaper.


Anyway...we are merely going around in circles so that's enough for me.

There really is no discussing anything with people who think that a GM who just drafted a QB at #8 wants meaningless language in his contract to save himself a couple of hundred thousand bucks, when he has to cut the guy he now believes is doomed to failure and not worthy of where he was drafted 3 months ago.

Don't forget to wake up early and post even more insane bullpucky.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree, your theory of them making a stand, for
> whatever themselves, precedence, to garner favor
> with the league? Either that, or what A&O brought
> up a week or so ago, that if Tannehill misses part
> of camp, that puts less pressure on them to start
> him sooner then later. They can blame the fact he
> isnt ready on him missing camp.... One of the two
> reasons, or maybe a little of both.
> It doesnt help with the players, they want him to
> hold out so better precedence is set for the
> players.
> I heard Odrick say in an interview today, he wasnt
> worried about it, and Ryan has to do what he has
> to do and handle his business first. It what seem
> like support of Tannehills position. I dont think
> Ireland is well liked by players after negotiating
> against him, he appears to be a hard liner from
> several past positions and moves he has made...
> That is one of my biggest knocks against him... I
> think it is why people have the mis perception we
> are cheap... I dont think it is from the owner, I
> think it is how Ireland is, he doesnt like to give
> an inch or back down. He is a good business man,
> but it has it's downsides as well.


I have no idea what the reason is...other than its insane to suggest that they want the language because they feel they guy they just selected at #8 is going to be a bust or that they over drafted him there.

A&O's comment made sense but what pressure has there been on them to start him since OTA's. The clear message from those camps was that he was behind Garrard and Moore. All that hype about him knowing the playbook and starting day one ended after the rookie camp.


Doesn't make sense that would be driving the decision now.

I think its more to do with currying favor with the league...be it for aponte or some other benefit. Maybe they just wanted to be the last one to cave and are waiting for Blackmon to be signed.

THE Truth Wrote:
>
>
> There really is no discussing anything with people
> who think that a GM who just drafted a QB at #8
> wants meaningless language in his contract to save
> himself a couple of hundred thousand bucks, when
> he has to cut the guy he now believes is doomed to
> failure and not worthy of where he was drafted 3
> months ago.
>

I don't know what worse, that the GM will withhold his top QB prospect from camp because wants the "meaningless language" to save a "couple of hundred thousand bucks" or drafting a guy #8 and then being concerned that you will have to cut him within the next four years...

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> >
>
> I don't know what worse,

Ain't that the truth...

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I have no idea what the reason is...other than its
> insane to suggest that they want the language
> because they feel they guy they just selected at
> #8 is going to be a bust or that they over drafted
> him there.
>

It doesn't matter what the reason is. No matter how this is sliced it shows bad management.

In my mind there are only two reasonable things the team can do regarding the issue:

1. Pull the language out and get the kid into camp now.
2. Keep the language in, presumably to protect the team against a bust, but prolong the hold out.

#2 only makes sense if they don't think as highly of RT as the draft position indicated.

Either way, the team's current position shows a considerable amount of disrespect to RT.

If for some reason he becomes the great QB some think he is, then in 4 years will he remember the way he was treated now?

I don't care how many layers of tinfoil you have on your head, this is bad management from the top no matter how its sliced.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > I have no idea what the reason is...other than
> its
> > insane to suggest that they want the language
> > because they feel they guy they just selected
> at
> > #8 is going to be a bust or that they over
> drafted
> > him there.
> >
>
> It doesn't matter what the reason is. No matter
> how this is sliced it shows bad management.
>
> In my mind there are only two reasonable things
> the team can do regarding the issue:
>
> 1. Pull the language out and get the kid into camp
> now.
> 2. Keep the language in, presumably to protect the
> team against a bust, but prolong the hold out.
>
> #2 only makes sense if they don't think as highly
> of RT as the draft position indicated.
>
> Either way, the team's current position shows a
> considerable amount of disrespect to RT.
>
> If for some reason he becomes the great QB some
> think he is, then in 4 years will he remember the
> way he was treated now?
>
> I don't care how many layers of tinfoil you have
> on your head, this is bad management from the top
> no matter how its sliced.


That theory is only accurate if you think Ryan Tannehill is a bust and/or yo think Ireland and Ross are utterly incompetent.

Even then its a reach of EPIC proportions.


There are a thousand plausible, even probable reasons they have made a stand on this issue.

I mentioned one earlier. Now if you are the owner of a team and you can go to bat for the league...ingratiate yourself with them so to speak...a league office that decides where Super Bowls are held...the same league office that told you a while back you won't get to host another game without a roof...the same league office that messed up this language in the CBA....if you are this owner and you play tough with you 3rd string rookie QB for a few days so the league saves face and maybe you get something for it.

That's good business...no matter how you slice it.

If this drags out for a week or more then feel free to revisit your delusional theory.

Either way, whether it was intentional or not, perception wise on the issue that is being disputed in the contract, is about what happens if they cut him before he fullfills his contract... If they are so worried about this issue, when every other team caved, but we havent, it doesnt come across as showing confidence in the player... especially with the nature of his position and past... Alot of people, even on this board rated Tannehill as either a boom or a bust... The fact we appear so adamant on protecting ourselves in case he is a bust, only adds to the question, whether intenional, accurate or not...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> That theory is only accurate if you think Ryan
> Tannehill is a bust and/or yo think Ireland and
> Ross are utterly incompetent.
>

I'm not talking about theory. This is a fact. The management looks like complete idiots on this one.

I agree its not that big of a deal, particularly when you look at the occurrence of top ten draft picks being release before 4 years.

So why not get the kid in camp ASAP?

Bad management all around.... but this is something that most of us with an open mind towards the team have been seeing for a while now.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> >
> > That theory is only accurate if you think Ryan
> > Tannehill is a bust and/or yo think Ireland and
> > Ross are utterly incompetent.
> >
>
> I'm not talking about theory. This is a fact.
> The management looks like complete idiots on this
> one.
>
> I agree its not that big of a deal, particularly
> when you look at the occurrence of top ten draft
> picks being release before 4 years.
>
> So why not get the kid in camp ASAP?
>
> Bad management all around.... but this is
> something that most of us with an open mind
> towards the team have been seeing for a while now.


If your mind was any more "open" on the subject of this front office they'd have to fear for their safety.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> If your mind was any more "open" on the subject of
> this front office they'd have to fear for their
> safety.



Because I don't agree with you I'm on the edge of violence? Wow, that is quite a step.

Yea, I think that tinfoil is getting to your head.

Wow. The guy hasn't even been on the field yet and conspiracy theorist have him labeled as a bust who is getting cut? Way to read between the lines.

Ireland and Ross are going all in on a guy they knew they were going to cut in two years. Ireland and his giddiness after the draft was just for show show I guess.

Is this really a discussion? LOL

Is Jerry Fletcher on this site?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ireland and Ross are going all in on a guy they
> knew they were going to cut in two years. Ireland
> and his giddiness after the draft was just for
> show show I guess.
>

If they were going "all in" then why not sign him with the offset language, like all other top ten picks?

I'm looking at what they say, and then looking at what they do, and I'm seeing some inconsistencies.

All in means treat him like a top ten pick.

What is going on right now ain't "all in".

The Truth and Dolfanking were discussing the worth of our front office and whether they were dealing Tannehill in the proper manner and out of left field comes eesti saying


"Wow. The guy hasn't even been on the field yet and conspiracy theorist have him labeled as a bust who is getting cut? Way to read between the lines."

I carefully read the above posts and not one poster here criticized Tannehill as a bust. Someone said the front office was treating him like he was already a bust but that's not the same thing.

Ryan Tannehill is the end result of fans revolting before the draft & the one QB who every analyst was declaring a "reach at #8, but they still should take him". It's no wonder he's still unsigned. He's a project who was drafted in the 1st round just for the sake of drafting a QB in the 1st round.

This franchise was backed into a corner by the media & the fans to draft him to begin with, so if they don't want to guarantee him top dollar if he's cut I don't blame them one bit. Luck and RGIII are going to start and he is not. It's as simple as that. If he expects the same treatment as they do then he's dreaming. He has no leverage whatsoever as holdout.

sign him. he is our top 10 qb. too later for second thoughts now!!

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan Tannehill is the end result of fans revolting
> before the draft & the one QB who every analyst
> was declaring a "reach at #8, but they still
> should take him". It's no wonder he's still
> unsigned. He's a project who was drafted in the
> 1st round just for the sake of drafting a QB in
> the 1st round.
>

This seems like a very sane analysis.


> This franchise was backed into a corner by the
> media & the fans to draft him to begin with, so if
> they don't want to guarantee him top dollar if
> he's cut I don't blame them one bit. Luck and
> RGIII are going to start and he is not. It's as
> simple as that. If he expects the same treatment
> as they do then he's dreaming. He has no leverage
> whatsoever as holdout.

This certainly is the message the FO is giving by not giving him the same contract. I'm wondering if they saw something in OTAs that scared them about the kid.

Regardless, by not signing him with the offset language, the FO is effectively backing away from the "All In" stance. They are admitting that they are in for the most part, right now, but want to cover are rear ends in the event of an RT bust.

I don't blame them either.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I agree, your theory of them making a stand,
> for
> > whatever themselves, precedence, to garner
> favor
> > with the league? Either that, or what A&O
> brought
> > up a week or so ago, that if Tannehill misses
> part
> > of camp, that puts less pressure on them to
> start
> > him sooner then later. They can blame the fact
> he
> > isnt ready on him missing camp.... One of the
> two
> > reasons, or maybe a little of both.
> > It doesnt help with the players, they want him
> to
> > hold out so better precedence is set for the
> > players.
> > I heard Odrick say in an interview today, he
> wasnt
> > worried about it, and Ryan has to do what he
> has
> > to do and handle his business first. It what
> seem
> > like support of Tannehills position. I dont
> think
> > Ireland is well liked by players after
> negotiating
> > against him, he appears to be a hard liner from
> > several past positions and moves he has made...
> > That is one of my biggest knocks against him...
> I
> > think it is why people have the mis perception
> we
> > are cheap... I dont think it is from the owner,
> I
> > think it is how Ireland is, he doesnt like to
> give
> > an inch or back down. He is a good business
> man,
> > but it has it's downsides as well.
>
>
> I have no idea what the reason is...other than its
> insane to suggest that they want the language
> because they feel they guy they just selected at
> #8 is going to be a bust or that they over drafted
> him there.
>
> A&O's comment made sense but what pressure has
> there been on them to start him since OTA's. The
> clear message from those camps was that he was
> behind Garrard and Moore. All that hype about
> him knowing the playbook and starting day one
> ended after the rookie camp.
>
>
> Doesn't make sense that would be driving the
> decision now.
>
> I think its more to do with currying favor with
> the league...be it for aponte or some other
> benefit. Maybe they just wanted to be the last
> one to cave and are waiting for Blackmon to be
> signed.

******************************************************

I just read a good explanation behind this nonsense.

The #7 pick and the #9 pick gave in to the agent's/player's demand that this clause not be included. How can the agent for Tanney give in to this demand? If he did that, he would be committing agent suicide for trying to be an agent for players coming out next year. He can't give in. Miami is going to have to cave in, and quickly if they want to get anything from Tanney this season.

Also read where Tanney should be given the starter's job. He was picked #8, so throw him in there. It is a falsehood that a QB's confidence will be destroyed by getting beat up his first year. Aickman was used as an example, and as far as Tanney (supposedly) not being ready, the same was said for Andy Dalton.

This info is what I read, not my own.

Anyway, I side with the agent/player on this one.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ryan Tannehill is the end result of fans revolting
> before the draft & the one QB who every analyst
> was declaring a "reach at #8, but they still
> should take him". It's no wonder he's still
> unsigned. He's a project who was drafted in the
> 1st round just for the sake of drafting a QB in
> the 1st round.
>
> This franchise was backed into a corner by the
> media & the fans to draft him to begin with, so if
> they don't want to guarantee him top dollar if
> he's cut I don't blame them one bit. Luck and
> RGIII are going to start and he is not. It's as
> simple as that. If he expects the same treatment
> as they do then he's dreaming. He has no leverage
> whatsoever as holdout.

*************************************************

You may be right in your assessment of Miami taking a QB in the first round just to take one, however, I don't agree with you.

If Miami wasn't in the 8th position, the QBs that would have been available later, they probably wouldn't have taken one, unless Weeden was still there, then maybe.

Tanney was highly rated by just about everyone (including the Dolphins), but his lack of QB playing experience in college scared some teams, but teams that needed a QB that were drafting after Miami, would have (probably) snagged him at the first opportunity.

I highly doubt that the fans had any influence over Ireland in his decision to take Tanney. He even said that he had his eye on Ryan for quite a while and was extremely pleased that he was there when Miami picked.

Also doubt that Ryan is expecting the same treatment as Luck and RG III. Ryan knows his limitations (lack of college starting experience), so he (and his agent) are just trying to do what's right for him. As I mentioned in an earlier post, both picks in front of and behind Ryan, their respective teams have dropped the demand for that clause. Ryan's agent can't allow Miami to win this one.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I just read a good explanation behind this
> nonsense.
>
> The #7 pick and the #9 pick gave in to the
> agent's/player's demand that this clause not be
> included. How can the agent for Tanney give in to
> this demand? If he did that, he would be
> committing agent suicide for trying to be an agent
> for players coming out next year. He can't give
> in. Miami is going to have to cave in, and
> quickly if they want to get anything from Tanney
> this season.


It certainly explains why he is holding out. And I agree, if the Dolphins are indeed "All In", they should be giving Tannehill the same type of contract that the players picked before and after him should be getting. This is common sense.

Its obvious they Dolphins do not see Tannehill in the same class as the other top 10 picks.


>
> Also read where Tanney should be given the
> starter's job. He was picked #8, so throw him in
> there. It is a falsehood that a QB's confidence
> will be destroyed by getting beat up his first
> year. Aickman was used as an example, and as far
> as Tanney (supposedly) not being ready, the same
> was said for Andy Dalton.
>

This is a matter of where the player is on the Learning curve. Andy Dalton was a starting QB in college 4 years before he reached the NFL. He had a ton of victories and has won a few big games. Tannehill's experience pales in comparison.

BTW - I have no idea why we didn't draft Dalton last year. He was a better QB coming out of college. A 2nd rounder.

Its players like Dalton that caused the reach for Tannehill.


>
> Anyway, I side with the agent/player on this one.

I think the team is being stupid no matter what it does. The mistake it made was drafting a reach, then claiming "All In" then essentially backing away from that player in contract situation. The Dolphins front office has once again backed itself into a Lose - Lose situation.

This is why I think the ownership and GM sucks.

Adam Schefter ?@AdamSchefter
Dolphins and Ryan Tannehill have reached agreeenent. He's now reporting.