Just read on line where Jamie Dukes from NFLN suggested that Miami doesn't have that great receiver. Owens is out there looking for a team. He says to sign Owens.

J. Walker said that he didn't think it was a good idea, i.e., too much of a circus; already have a "personality" in Ochocinco; and Miami had already dumped a "problem" in Marshall and don't wish to pick up another one.

I have mixed feeling on this. Yes, T.O. is a problem child, however, wherever he has played, his first year was flawless. He produced on the field without problems in the locker room or off the field.

Is the coaching staff tough enough to deal with Owens (and Ocho)?

Sign T.O. at the league minimum and if that top-notch WR is there in next year's draft, grab that guy and release T.O.

Thoughts?

FU@K NO!

(And Jamie Dukes is an idoit, or he's run out of things to talk about...probably both)

I'm having a real hard time convincing myself to believe that there's a positive side to having a total diva that even the indoor/arena league most recently dumped.

No, no, no, no...and no!

The headline is too funny.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Just the kind of thing I'd expect from Ross. And then he'd turn the locker room into a reality show. TO and Chad Johnson would be fighting for the title of reality show primadonna. Our team would suck, but maybe there would be a few bucks to be made.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just the kind of thing I'd expect from Ross. And
> then he'd turn the locker room into a reality
> show. TO and Chad Johnson would be fighting for
> the title of reality show primadonna. Our team
> would suck, but maybe there would be a few bucks
> to be made.


So you're gonna bash the guy for stuff he hasn't done?

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just the kind of thing I'd expect from Ross.
> And
> > then he'd turn the locker room into a reality
> > show. TO and Chad Johnson would be fighting
> for
> > the title of reality show primadonna. Our team
> > would suck, but maybe there would be a few
> bucks
> > to be made.
>
>
> So you're gonna bash the guy for stuff he hasn't
> done?

No I'm bashing him for the expectations he's set. He sets these expectation by stuff he has done in the past.

Ross is the worst owner in the league. If he can pick up TO cheap, he will have a nice circus. And for Ross, there appears to be nothing better than a cheap circus. Not even a winning football team.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DolfanKing Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Just the kind of thing I'd expect from Ross.
> > And
> > > then he'd turn the locker room into a reality
> > > show. TO and Chad Johnson would be fighting
> > for
> > > the title of reality show primadonna. Our
> team
> > > would suck, but maybe there would be a few
> > bucks
> > > to be made.
> >
> >
> > So you're gonna bash the guy for stuff he
> hasn't
> > done?
>
> No I'm bashing him for the expectations he's set.
> He sets these expectation by stuff he has done in
> the past.
>
> Ross is the worst owner in the league. If he can
> pick up TO cheap, he will have a nice circus. And
> for Ross, there appears to be nothing better than
> a cheap circus. Not even a winning football team.


Can you give me an example of a similar "circus" like move concerning personel that Ross has forced?

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dolphaholic Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > DolfanKing Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Just the kind of thing I'd expect from Ross.
>
> > > And
> > > > then he'd turn the locker room into a
> reality
> > > > show. TO and Chad Johnson would be
> fighting
> > > for
> > > > the title of reality show primadonna. Our
> > team
> > > > would suck, but maybe there would be a few
> > > bucks
> > > > to be made.
> > >
> > >
> > > So you're gonna bash the guy for stuff he
> > hasn't
> > > done?
> >
> > No I'm bashing him for the expectations he's
> set.
> > He sets these expectation by stuff he has done
> in
> > the past.
> >
> > Ross is the worst owner in the league. If he
> can
> > pick up TO cheap, he will have a nice circus.
> And
> > for Ross, there appears to be nothing better
> than
> > a cheap circus. Not even a winning football
> team.
>
>
> Can you give me an example of a similar "circus"
> like move concerning personel that Ross has
> forced?

And let rational thought get in the way of a good rant?

Clearly Ross wants to sign TO but is not signing him simply to prove all the haters wrong.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DolfanKing Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > dolphaholic Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > DolfanKing Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Just the kind of thing I'd expect from
> Ross.
> >
> > > > And
> > > > > then he'd turn the locker room into a
> > reality
> > > > > show. TO and Chad Johnson would be
> > fighting
> > > > for
> > > > > the title of reality show primadonna.
> Our
> > > team
> > > > > would suck, but maybe there would be a
> few
> > > > bucks
> > > > > to be made.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you're gonna bash the guy for stuff he
> > > hasn't
> > > > done?
> > >
> > > No I'm bashing him for the expectations he's
> > set.
> > > He sets these expectation by stuff he has
> done
> > in
> > > the past.
> > >
> > > Ross is the worst owner in the league. If he
> > can
> > > pick up TO cheap, he will have a nice circus.
>
> > And
> > > for Ross, there appears to be nothing better
> > than
> > > a cheap circus. Not even a winning football
> > team.
> >
> >
> > Can you give me an example of a similar
> "circus"
> > like move concerning personel that Ross has
> > forced?
>
> And let rational thought get in the way of a good
> rant?
>
> Clearly Ross wants to sign TO but is not signing
> him simply to prove all the haters wrong.

You have to be blind not to see how Ross is pulling down this organization. I understand, it seems a lot safer to keep your head in the sand.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dolphaholic Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > DolfanKing Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > dolphaholic Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > DolfanKing Wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----
> > > > > > Just the kind of thing I'd expect from
> > Ross.
> > >
> > > > > And
> > > > > > then he'd turn the locker room into a
> > > reality
> > > > > > show. TO and Chad Johnson would be
> > > fighting
> > > > > for
> > > > > > the title of reality show primadonna.
> > Our
> > > > team
> > > > > > would suck, but maybe there would be a
> > few
> > > > > bucks
> > > > > > to be made.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So you're gonna bash the guy for stuff he
> > > > hasn't
> > > > > done?
> > > >
> > > > No I'm bashing him for the expectations
> he's
> > > set.
> > > > He sets these expectation by stuff he has
> > done
> > > in
> > > > the past.
> > > >
> > > > Ross is the worst owner in the league. If
> he
> > > can
> > > > pick up TO cheap, he will have a nice
> circus.
> >
> > > And
> > > > for Ross, there appears to be nothing
> better
> > > than
> > > > a cheap circus. Not even a winning
> football
> > > team.
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you give me an example of a similar
> > "circus"
> > > like move concerning personel that Ross has
> > > forced?
> >
> > And let rational thought get in the way of a
> good
> > rant?
> >
> > Clearly Ross wants to sign TO but is not
> signing
> > him simply to prove all the haters wrong.
>
> You have to be blind not to see how Ross is
> pulling down this organization. I understand, it
> seems a lot safer to keep your head in the sand.

Ha ha.

This ought to be good...

Please tell us what Ross has done to destroy this franchise?

A franchise with what... One playoff win in two appearances in the decade proceeding his buying the team?

Make your case.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ha ha.
>
> This ought to be good...
>
> Please tell us what Ross has done to destroy this
> franchise?
>
> A franchise with what... One playoff win in two
> appearances in the decade proceeding his buying
> the team?
>
> Make your case.


If your point is the team sucked before him so it doesn't matter what he does, then you've missed the point.

It kills me the way Dolphins fans accept mediocrity these days. It used to be that people were pissed off if we made the playoffs but didn't go to the big dance.

Now the standards are so low, you'll accept bottom of the barrel management with an "it can't suck worse" attitude.

I don't really have to list all the stupid stuff that Ross has done from J-Lo to undermining his coaches to changing the freaking fight song to selling out the stadium to Jimmy Buffet (and I like Jimmy Buffet). The man is a joke of an owner, and nearly every thing he has done to put his stamp on this team has made it more of a joke of a team. Its no wonder the team is 31st in attendance.

I want management that wants to win. I want to compete for a playoff appearance every year. I want to kick the Division's ass on a regular basis. This is the way it used to be. Have you forgotten? No way Ross and Ireland will ever be able to bring this team back to that level.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Ha ha.
> >
> > This ought to be good...
> >
> > Please tell us what Ross has done to destroy
> this
> > franchise?
> >
> > A franchise with what... One playoff win in two
> > appearances in the decade proceeding his buying
> > the team?
> >
> > Make your case.
>
>
> If your point is the team sucked before him so it
> doesn't matter what he does, then you've missed
> the point.


No..that wasn't my point.


>
> It kills me the way Dolphins fans accept
> mediocrity these days. It used to be that people
> were pissed off if we made the playoffs but didn't
> go to the big dance.


Nice sentiment. But the NFL is full of mediocrity.

It's a simple league nowadays. You either have a QB or you ride the roller coaster of mediocrity until you get one.

Once you find that QB yo can turn things around quickly. Until you do its like trying to turn around an aircraft carrier...it takes time to change the direction you are headed in.



>
> Now the standards are so low, you'll accept bottom
> of the barrel management with an "it can't suck
> worse" attitude.


Nobody said they accept that. Certainly not me.

I'm just more realistic than you when it comes to what is needed to bring this franchise back.

Just being mad at the last decade and stamping your feet doesn't make it all better.



>
> I don't really have to list all the stupid stuff
> that Ross has done from J-Lo to undermining his
> coaches to changing the freaking fight song to
> selling out the stadium to Jimmy Buffet (and I
> like Jimmy Buffet).


yeah, actually you do. Otherwise you are just being cranky.

So your major beefs with Ross as an owner are: he likes to rub elbows with celebrities, you don't like the company he leased the stadium naming rights to for 1 season, you don't like the fact that he tried to modernize a cheesy old team fight song that many fans like myself would cringe in embarssement when hearing in the background of a TV broadcast.

Oh and, he cut the legs out from under a horrible head coach.

Yeah...that makes him out to be the Joseph Mengele of pro sports owners...




> The man is a joke of an
> owner, and nearly every thing he has done to put
> his stamp on this team has made it more of a joke
> of a team. Its no wonder the team is 31st in
> attendance.


Are you suggesting that people don't show up because Gloria Estefan owns a fractional share of the team, that the fight song sucks (it always has), or that Buffett paid a ton of money to the team to call it Landshark Stadium for a year?

Silly me...I thought it was because we haven't won squat in 12 years.



>
> I want management that wants to win. I want to
> compete for a playoff appearance every year. I
> want to kick the Division's ass on a regular
> basis. This is the way it used to be. Have you
> forgotten?


We all want that. But wanting it doesn't make it so.

You have to have a plan...and a QB.

Ross is the first owner, coach or GM of this team since JJ that understands that.




> No way Ross and Ireland will ever be
> able to bring this team back to that level.


Pure Hyperbole.

You don't have to like Ireland or Ross, but the fact is neither has been in their job long enough to say that.

As owner, Ross is one good hire away from a dynasty. As a GM, Ireland is one good QB away from the same.

Even if you believe them to be totally incompetent, which they aren't, blind squirrels do find acorns now and again.

Look, you are certainly entitled to your view on these guys, but its fans like you who fuel the national media perception of this team. You may think you are part of the solution but you aren't. You are reactionary and that isn't going to make things better.

Ireland is what he is...a work in progress. In a year or two you'll know if he was right abut Tannehill or you were.

As for Ross being a bad owner...you couldn't be more wrong.

There are three types of bad owners in sports:

1) The owner who wants to be the GM...like Jerry Jones in Dallas

2) The owner who refuses to spend money...like Bill Bidwell in Arizona

3) The owner who doesn't give a shit...like The Ford family in Detroit.

Ross is NONE of those.

He's got deep pockets. He's not afraid to write checks to cover mistakes by the front office on personnel.

Yes he messed up with not firing Sporano before talking to Harbaugh. But he was RIGHT about going after Harbaugh.

So far he's hired one GM and one head coach who hasn't even coached a pre-season game.

Calling him a bad owner who can never turn this around at this point is just silly.

Especially in light of the fact that even piss poor owners like Jones, Bidwell and the Ford's eventually have some success once they find a QB.

The fight song change, was foolish it was changed to a song, which is about sharks, land sharks, hence the name landshark lager.. It has nothing to do with Dolphins on the contrary it is about a natural enemy of the Dolphin, sharks.... I am not sure Ross realizes that or not..lol. FIns to the left fins to the right are sharks circling... that is bad for Dolphins when sharks circle... I still dont remotely get it...
If Ross is one hire away from a Dynasty and the GM is one QB away, so is every owner and GM... that is a pretty funny statement to try and prove anything..lol
Ross's problems is the things that he put in the forefront after his ownership takeover of the Dolphins, wasnt remotely what fans cared about... Ross is a salesman, salesman are full of cr*p and tell you what you want to hear and try and blind you with the sizzle and flash rather then substance... That has been his persona, if I wanted to go to a circus, or a celebrity event, or a club, i would do that, but I dont.... I want Miami Dolphins NFL football...
I hope he learns and gets it right.. I know Ross wants to win, but all of the sideshow circus stuff, he created detracts from the experience rather then adds to it...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2012 02:55PM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fight song change, was foolish it was changed
> to a song, which is about sharks, land sharks,
> hence the name landshark lager.. It has nothing to
> do with Dolphins on the contrary it is about a
> natural enemy of the Dolphin, sharks.... I am not
> sure Ross realizes that or not..lol. FIns to the
> left fins to the right are sharks circling... that
> is bad for Dolphins when sharks circle... I still
> dont remotely get it...
> If Ross is one hire away from a Dynasty and the GM
> is one QB away, so is every owner and GM... that
> is a pretty funny statement to try and prove
> anything..lol


I think you missed the sarcasm. I suppose I should have noted it parenthetically.


But taken to the extreme, every owner, even the bad ones, are 1 hire or one draft pick away from getting it right.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THE Truth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > Ha ha.
> > >
> > > This ought to be good...
> > >
> > > Please tell us what Ross has done to destroy
> > this
> > > franchise?
> > >
> > > A franchise with what... One playoff win in
> two
> > > appearances in the decade proceeding his
> buying
> > > the team?
> > >
> > > Make your case.
> >
> >
> > If your point is the team sucked before him so
> it
> > doesn't matter what he does, then you've missed
> > the point.
>
>
> No..that wasn't my point.
>
>
> >
> > It kills me the way Dolphins fans accept
> > mediocrity these days. It used to be that
> people
> > were pissed off if we made the playoffs but
> didn't
> > go to the big dance.
>
>
> Nice sentiment. But the NFL is full of
> mediocrity.
>
> It's a simple league nowadays. You either have a
> QB or you ride the roller coaster of mediocrity
> until you get one.
>
> Once you find that QB yo can turn things around
> quickly. Until you do its like trying to turn
> around an aircraft carrier...it takes time to
> change the direction you are headed in.
>
>
>
> >
> > Now the standards are so low, you'll accept
> bottom
> > of the barrel management with an "it can't suck
> > worse" attitude.
>
>
> Nobody said they accept that. Certainly not me.
>
> I'm just more realistic than you when it comes to
> what is needed to bring this franchise back.
>
> Just being mad at the last decade and stamping
> your feet doesn't make it all better.
>
>
>
> >
> > I don't really have to list all the stupid
> stuff
> > that Ross has done from J-Lo to undermining his
> > coaches to changing the freaking fight song to
> > selling out the stadium to Jimmy Buffet (and I
> > like Jimmy Buffet).
>
>
> yeah, actually you do. Otherwise you are just
> being cranky.
>
> So your major beefs with Ross as an owner are: he
> likes to rub elbows with celebrities, you don't
> like the company he leased the stadium naming
> rights to for 1 season, you don't like the fact
> that he tried to modernize a cheesy old team fight
> song that many fans like myself would cringe in
> embarssement when hearing in the background of a
> TV broadcast.
>
> Oh and, he cut the legs out from under a horrible
> head coach.
>
> Yeah...that makes him out to be the Joseph Mengele
> of pro sports owners...
>
>
>
>
> > The man is a joke of an
> > owner, and nearly every thing he has done to
> put
> > his stamp on this team has made it more of a
> joke
> > of a team. Its no wonder the team is 31st in
> > attendance.
>
>
> Are you suggesting that people don't show up
> because Gloria Estefan owns a fractional share of
> the team, that the fight song sucks (it always
> has), or that Buffett paid a ton of money to the
> team to call it Landshark Stadium for a year?
>
> Silly me...I thought it was because we haven't won
> squat in 12 years.
>
>
>
> >
> > I want management that wants to win. I want to
> > compete for a playoff appearance every year. I
> > want to kick the Division's ass on a regular
> > basis. This is the way it used to be. Have you
> > forgotten?
>
>
> We all want that. But wanting it doesn't make it
> so.
>
> You have to have a plan...and a QB.
>
> Ross is the first owner, coach or GM of this team
> since JJ that understands that.
>
>
>
>
> > No way Ross and Ireland will ever be
> > able to bring this team back to that level.
>
>
> Pure Hyperbole.
>
> You don't have to like Ireland or Ross, but the
> fact is neither has been in their job long enough
> to say that.
>
> As owner, Ross is one good hire away from a
> dynasty. As a GM, Ireland is one good QB away
> from the same.
>
> Even if you believe them to be totally
> incompetent, which they aren't, blind squirrels do
> find acorns now and again.
>
> Look, you are certainly entitled to your view on
> these guys, but its fans like you who fuel the
> national media perception of this team. You may
> think you are part of the solution but you aren't.
> You are reactionary and that isn't going to make
> things better.
>
> Ireland is what he is...a work in progress. In a
> year or two you'll know if he was right abut
> Tannehill or you were.
>
> As for Ross being a bad owner...you couldn't be
> more wrong.
>
> There are three types of bad owners in sports:
>
> 1) The owner who wants to be the GM...like Jerry
> Jones in Dallas
>
> 2) The owner who refuses to spend money...like
> Bill Bidwell in Arizona
>
> 3) The owner who doesn't give a shit...like The
> Ford family in Detroit.
>
> Ross is NONE of those.
>
> He's got deep pockets. He's not afraid to write
> checks to cover mistakes by the front office on
> personnel.
>
> Yes he messed up with not firing Sporano before
> talking to Harbaugh. But he was RIGHT about
> going after Harbaugh.
>
> So far he's hired one GM and one head coach who
> hasn't even coached a pre-season game.
>
> Calling him a bad owner who can never turn this
> around at this point is just silly.
>
> Especially in light of the fact that even piss
> poor owners like Jones, Bidwell and the Ford's
> eventually have some success once they find a QB.


You really are in denial about the state of this franchise.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> But taken to the extreme, every owner, even the
> bad ones, are 1 hire or one draft pick away from
> getting it right.


Which owners are those? Jones? The Cowboys have sucked since the salary cap. Ford? Quick playoff exit, likely a one hit wonder. Bidwell? The Cards were good for two years, then they got rid of the QB.

Good ownership brings dynasties. Bad ownership may luck out for a few years with a QB, but, in the end, that QB quits or gets injured because the team won't spend on an O-line, and the team goes back to sucking.

We have bad ownership. No dynasties for us... that goes to Pittsburgh, NE, and Green Bay.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > DolfanKing Wrote:
> >
> -------------------------------------------------



>
> You really are in denial about the state of this
> franchise.


Nah. I've just been around the block enough to learn that Rome wasn't built in a day, that first impressions are usually wrong, that all people make mistakes and most learn from them so how you start has little to do with how you finish. And that there are fans who are realistic enough to allow players and management to grow into their roles and others who are reactionary by nature and flip out, passing judgement on careers based on silly things or rookie mistakes.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> > But taken to the extreme, every owner, even the
> > bad ones, are 1 hire or one draft pick away
> from
> > getting it right.
>
>
> Which owners are those? Jones? The Cowboys have
> sucked since the salary cap. Ford? Quick playoff
> exit, likely a one hit wonder. Bidwell? The
> Cards were good for two years, then they got rid
> of the QB.
>

That's my point. They are all crappy owners. But despite that, the cowboys became relevant despite jones god complex once romo (a jeff Ireland find) matured. Bidwell is the cheapest owner in he sport but he almost won a title when Kurt Warner fell into his lap. The fords stood by for a decade as Matt Mullen destroyed that franchise, made a good hire drafted one of the best young qb's in the league and are now one of the best young teams in the league.

The point was...it's ABSURD to state that Ross will never turn this team around when even the worst owners in the league eventually luck into some success.


> Good ownership brings dynasties. Bad ownership
> may luck out for a few years with a QB, but, in
> the end, that QB quits or gets injured because the
> team won't spend on an O-line, and the team goes
> back to sucking.


Nonsense. Good ownership, GREAT gm's and GREAT qb's make dynasty's. And dynasty's are few and far between.

The rest of that statement is pointless. It's one scenario in a million that has nothing to do with us.

Ross has proven he has no issues spending his money on the oline or to get rid of bad personnel.


>
> We have bad ownership. No dynasties for us...
> that goes to Pittsburgh, NE, and Green Bay.

Garbage in...garbage out. Use a flawed premise and you get a flawed conclusion.

Those teams win because they have qb's.

Not because their owners don't sell fractional shares to J-lo.


This franchise will turn around on Ireland's ability to find talent. Primarily a QB.

The only way Ross becomes a problem is if he suddenly decides he's Jerry Jones and wants to play god or if he stops caring about winning enough to stop spending his money like Bill Bidwell or he just gets so fed up he doesn't care enough to replace Ireland if he fails like the Ford family did with millen.

So far he's done nothing to even remotely suggest he's like any of those guys.

He gave his gm total control over personnel to the extent big name head coaches wouldn't come here because of it. He's spent tons of money on free agents on keeping his own players and on getting rid of bad contracts. And he's fired a head coach who won 11 games in his rookie year.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong about Ross at this point in time.

Sure he's an unfinished product as an owner. Sure he's made some cosmetic errors out of the gate that you don't like. Sure he could go off the reservation and take this franchise off a cliff.

But your constant vitriol towards him inspite of the clear evidence that he's not a megalomaniac, a cheap skate or an absentee owner who doesn't give a shit comes off as petty, uninformed dribble. Or hate for hates sake.

Kind of reminds me of a former poster who said he was a dolphin fan but never had anything but complaints about everyone and everything associated with this franchise.

Truth- I find it a bit odd that you do not hold Ireland accountable for the drafts that took place while he was a GM here under parcells. But somehow when he was just a director of scouting at Dallas you give him credit for Tony Romo? wow.. really? your position on Irelands accountability seems a bit inconsistent.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
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> Truth- I find it a bit odd that you do not hold
> Ireland accountable for the drafts that took place
> while he was a GM here under parcells. But somehow
> when he was just a director of scouting at Dallas
> you give him credit for Tony Romo? wow.. really?
> your position on Irelands accountability seems a
> bit inconsistent.


It's not inconsistent. I've said all along that I'd only give him credit or blame for the things I can specifically attribute to him through those in the media with insight into the actual events.

It's always been my understanding that Ireland and his scouting staff found romo and signed him as a free agent. In searching for a story to reference I found some that indicate it was Sean Payton who was responsible. Maybe I was wrong on the romo story but I'm not a cowboys fan so I really wasn't paying attention when they signed him.

I don't give Ireland any credit or blame for the parcells years because it's impossible to divine just how much influence or input he had in the process until the tuna shipped out.

There are two picks in that era I fully attribute to parcells: jake long and pat white. Beyond that I'm giving all the credit and blame to the man in charge until someone goes on the record to offer a different version of events.

I'm not going to just guess which picks go to Ireland and which to parcells. It's foolish to do so. If I picked them out of a hat I'd have a better chance of being right than using the filter of my own personal bias to decide.

Thats is why I give them both the blame and credit for picks made during the parcells/ireland era. You go the other way and remove all blame or credit from Ireland... I just found it odd that you went the other way, giving the same guy but when a scout, the credit for the Romo pick up... But in the situation with Parcells, you dont even give any credit to the same guy in the actual GM role... It just seems like picking and choosing based on how it fits your argument..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2012 10:09AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
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> Thats is why I give them both the blame and credit
> for picks made during the parcells/ireland era.
> You go the other way and remove all blame or
> credit from Ireland... I just found it odd that
> you went the other way, giving the same guy but
> when a scout, the credit for the Romo pick up...
> But in the situation with Parcells, you dont even
> give any credit to the same guy in the actual GM
> role... It just seems like picking and choosing
> based on how it fits your argument..

I can see why you would be confused by that.

But I wasnt giving him credit for romo just because He was director of scouting but because I'd seen it reported that way. In looking into it further I've seen conflicting reports so I won't factor that into any evaluation of Ireland in the future.

I just can't go with your method. Parcells was an ego maniac who was t going to do anything but what he wanted to do. I'm not going to hold the CFO of a company responsible for the decisions of the CEO. It's not a fair or accurate way to evaluate their performance even if the CFO had input into the process.

I'm looking at it that he's innocent until proven guilty. You are taking the opposite approach. That's fine, but if I'm going to pass judgement on a guy I want to do it based upon what I know he did not on what he could have-maybe-possibly done.

But that's me.

Typical TT all the way.

The ownership, management and coaches are to blame for nothing.

EVEN the stupid playcalling both offensively and defensively.

EVERYTHING IS THE FAULT OF POOR Chad Henne and Matt Moore.

But watch and see what happens in the next two years, particularly, you Tannehill lovers.

If we go 9-7 in each following year, with the same damn stupid playcalling and other coaching errors, TT (and I mean like tee tee) will be condemning Tannehill and blaming everything on him NOT being a REAL FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.

But he would really being saying the same thing if you substitute Andrew Luck for Ryan Tannehill.

That tee tee, nothing is the coaches fault and EVERYTHING IS THE QUARTERBACK'S FAULT.

Irelands job as GM to me dictates his input and involvement in the process. He was handpicked and had a strong relationship with Parcells. I can't just discredit Ireland's involvement in building the roster. I think parcells respected him and Ireland was the guy in the trenches from day 1... Parcells was the advisor at his age and being the VP. But at the end of the day Ireland was the GM, that title should hold alot of acountability on personel moves IMO.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THE Truth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > DolfanKing Wrote:
> > >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> >
> > You really are in denial about the state of
> this
> > franchise.
>
>
> Nah. I've just been around the block enough to
> learn that Rome wasn't built in a day, that first
> impressions are usually wrong, that all people
> make mistakes and most learn from them so how you
> start has little to do with how you finish. And
> that there are fans who are realistic enough to
> allow players and management to grow into their
> roles and others who are reactionary by nature and
> flip out, passing judgement on careers based on
> silly things or rookie mistakes.

*******************************************************

I too have been around the block (too many times to mention) <g>. ALL teams go thru a spell and sooner or later, break out of it. Except for Sparano's first season, Miami is in that spell. There are a lot of teams who were at the top for quite a while and spiraled downward for a period. Does anyone remember that the Packers were a terrible team for the longest time....look at them now. The Patriots also went into a shell for quite a while. Miami was at the top of the pile for a long time. They will come out of it, and of course we Finfans hope it is sooner than later.

As far as "The Truth" being in denial, how is that? I don't see anything he has written that indicates he is in denial.

As far as Jerry Jones goes, he was a promoter, who screwed his original partners in the cowboys deal. He got lucky because he happend to be college buddies with Jimmy Johnson from their days at Arkansas. Johnson built the cowboys back up and a little Parcells with his underlings years later. But other then that Jones hasnt really found success with his style IMO... Jimmy Johnson was luck of an old relationship and he fell into the pot of gold, that Jones was able to parlay, as Johnson got away from Jones faster then a texas rattlesnack...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thats is why I give them both the blame and
> credit
> > for picks made during the parcells/ireland era.
> > You go the other way and remove all blame or
> > credit from Ireland... I just found it odd that
> > you went the other way, giving the same guy but
> > when a scout, the credit for the Romo pick
> up...
> > But in the situation with Parcells, you dont
> even
> > give any credit to the same guy in the actual
> GM
> > role... It just seems like picking and choosing
> > based on how it fits your argument..
>
> I can see why you would be confused by that.
>
> But I wasnt giving him credit for romo just
> because He was director of scouting but because
> I'd seen it reported that way. In looking into
> it further I've seen conflicting reports so I
> won't factor that into any evaluation of Ireland
> in the future.
>
> I just can't go with your method. Parcells was
> an ego maniac who was t going to do anything but
> what he wanted to do. I'm not going to hold the
> CFO of a company responsible for the decisions of
> the CEO. It's not a fair or accurate way to
> evaluate their performance even if the CFO had
> input into the process.
>
> I'm looking at it that he's innocent until proven
> guilty. You are taking the opposite approach.
> That's fine, but if I'm going to pass judgement on
> a guy I want to do it based upon what I know he
> did not on what he could have-maybe-possibly
> done.
>
> But that's me.

******************************************************

The Big Man is always going to "accept" the credit (notice I didn't say "take"and not really say anything about the failures. Some will, but not many. Ireland was able to override the Tuna? I don't think so. Ireland may have been able to give input, i.e., DON'T draft Pat White, but Parcells would have the final say, as he did with White. If Ireland had full control of the draft, White would never have been a Miami Dolphin. That is just one example.

Now, saying that, did Ireland actually have a real say in the drafting of players? Since none of us on this board have any inside knowledge, we cannot answer, but we can all guess, based solely on what we know about Parcell.

Look not to long ago I heard people around here say Sparano picked Columbo and not Ireland, and Parcells picked this guy and that guy, and the GM who is as involved as Ireland is, should hold no culpability to certain moves... Sorry I don't think Parcell went against his GM's reccomendation very often. Ireland was Parcels guy, Parcels respected Ireland and his scouting and personel decision or he never wuld have hired him to be the GM... While a pick here and their maybe they disagreed fine, but the majority of the roster building that took place while Parcells was here, was undoubtedly a joint process between him and the GM. That isnt this unrealistic concept that some of you make it out to be IMO...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche