LT recently said he would prefer the HOF over a SB ring. I would agree with him.

HOF says you are one of the best players in the NFL and have been so consistently for one's whole career. The play on the field (and sometimes off) will determine whether or not one gets into the Hall. Marino is an excellent example of that.

Granted, Marino wanted a SB ring, but it didn't happen. Had no affect on his HOF status.

A Super Bowl is usually just a one-year thing, and it is a team effort. Again, Marino is a great example. Sure, every player's goal, from season to season, is to get to and win the SB. The majority of players (and teams) never get there. Same holds true for the HOF, but the SB is a team game, where the HOF is an individual accomplishment.

I found it amusing that the two who disagreed with LT on ESPN, Bruschi and Mel Hodge, have no shot at the HOF, but have won rings. Wonder what they would have said if that was the other way around?

I agree with LT.

Too many variables beyond your control to win a title.

If you play great, even on a bad team you can get to canton.

Yeah but when you ask HOF guys who have won rings about their career; their successes, greatest most fulfilling moments and accomplishments, they speak on winning the Superbowl as the absolute greatest most fulfilling moment of their careers, even their lives, more so than their induction into the HOF.

I think most HOF players who have also won a Superbowl will tell you that as much as being inducted into Canton was a great honor, the shining moment that they reminisce about with the most vivid nastalgia and pride and exuberance is that moment they won the Superbowl.

And that's not to say that each point you made about making the HOF versus winning a SB isn't valid.

I just think in terms of the emotional effect that plugging away all year, fighting through injuries, going through ups and downs, all up to the point of making it to the big show and then winning the biggest game of your life with your teammates at your side, that experience has got to be of greater value in terms of how its remembered as the culmination of an entire year of working to ultimately achieve the greatest goal. That's got to mean more for most guys than getting a phone call and enjoying an induction ceremony that isn't directly tied to a specific memorable event. I'd rather live through the memories and enjoy the feeling of winning a Superbowl than enjoying a single proud moment at my HOF induction ceremony.

One's a team achievement, one's an individual achievement. With football being a team sport, I think the team achievement is more valuable.

Correct. If you are a great player, it will shine through even if you are on a bad team.

The true great players on bad teams, however, at the end of their careers don't say that they regret not breaking more records. Instead, they regret that their teams did not go on to win championships. Dan Marino crashed the records but I'd bet he would have been willing to give up the records for the rings.

JC Wrote:
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> One's a team achievement, one's an individual
> achievement. With football being a team sport, I
> think the team achievement is more valuable.


So given the choice, you would rather have been Trent Dilfer instead of Dan Marino?


Not me.


Dan might not have gotten a title, but 100 years from now people will still talk about him as one of the greatest of all-time.

Whereas with Dilfer, he'll be lucky if people take the time to ask "who the Fu@k was Trent Dilfer?" when perusing the Super Bowl archives...

Most of Dan's records have already been bested. In 100 years from now, when nobody is alive that remembers seeing Dan play, there will be so many QBs in the hall that have bested Dan's records that the top tier QBs will be the ones with multiple SB wins. The second tier will be SB winners with outstanding records. Dilfer will not be in the top two tiers but, neither will Dan.

Hooligan2 Wrote:
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> Most of Dan's records have already been bested. In
> 100 years from now, when nobody is alive that
> remembers seeing Dan play, there will be so many
> QBs in the hall that have bested Dan's records
> that the top tier QBs will be the ones with
> multiple SB wins. The second tier will be SB
> winners with outstanding records. Dilfer will not
> be in the top two tiers but, neither will Dan.


That is certainly a possibility but Sid Luckman and Slingin' Sammy Baugh played 75 years ago and the are still remembered among the all-time greats. All but the youngest fans on this board are very likely to know who they are.

Whereas I seriously doubt that anyone on here can name ANY player on the 1934 or 1938 NY Giants Championship teams of that era without the assistance of google.

Too each their own, but I'd still rather have been Dan Marino than Trent Dilfer, be it now, 50 years from now, or 100 years from now.

THE Truth Wrote:
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> JC Wrote:
>
> So given the choice, you would rather have been
> Trent Dilfer instead of Dan Marino?
>
>

Not really. I thought we were discussing which award we prefer, not which person we'd rather be.


My choosing SB ring over HOF is on the grounds that all else is equal. In other words:

Dan Marino, with all his abilities, talents, stats, games won in dramatic fashion and records broken, is on a SB winning championship team one year,

OR

Dan Marino, with all his abilities, talents, stats, games won in dramatic fashion and records broken, doesn't win the SB but gets voted into the HOF.

I'd take the earlier of those two options above.

I was always and always will be very bitter that Dan didn't get a ring. It burns me up like you wouldn't believe.

I think if you ask Dan Marino today, he would trade his bust in Canton and all his personal accomplishments for a Super Bowl ring, maybe I am wrong, or maybe you just always want what you dont have, but my guess Marino would choose the Superbowl Ring if asked..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

HOF IMO

Crowder52 Wrote:
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> I think if you ask Dan Marino today, he would
> trade his bust in Canton and all his personal
> accomplishments for a Super Bowl ring, maybe I am
> wrong, or maybe you just always want what you dont
> have, but my guess Marino would choose the
> Superbowl Ring if asked..

_____________________________________________________

I don't think so.

HOF represents greatness throughout one's career; SB represents a team had a great season.

IMO? Players' immediate goal is to win a SB; their long-range goal is to get into the HOF. That is extremely difficult because one has to be "great" to get into the Hall. With the SB, a team has to not only be great, but lucky.

HOF is individual effort; SB is team.

As has been said on this board.....Dilfer vs Marino. 'Nuff said.

The SB ring is nice but it is so dependent on being in the right place at the right time, and on other players.

No doubt in my mind that marino made other players better on his team and elevated the dolphins to places they would never had gone.

I don't doubt he'd have loved to won a SB, but it wasn't due to lack of trying or talent that he didn't.

If you want to dig into why not ... you have to look at Shula's insistence on keeping Ollivadotti for defensive coordinator ... king of the prevent defense.

That's the only thing you'll ever hear me putting shula down for ... and in my humble opinion is the reason the fins didn't get a ring with Marino.

Ollivadotti must have had pictures of someone, cause he SUCKED!

PhinJim,
I am a huge Dolphins and Marino fan obviously. But you must forget about the 1992-3 AFC Championship game... We had crushed the Chargers the week before shutting them out. We played the bills, Marino threw 2 interceptions, and turned the ball over when he fumbled, and was sacked 4 times.. Marino only threw and the offense only scored 1 TD, and that was in the 4th qt when the game was over.... That was the game to go to the SUperbowl, Marino and the offense didnt show up... I agree Olivadotti was mostly horrible and the king of the prevent, prevent you from winning defense.. But Marino had some shots, and didnt get it dont himself as well IMO...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2012 10:16AM by Crowder52.

Captkoi- as has been said above as well, Players dont play for individual accomplishments, they play to win as a team... Marino wasnt happy when he threw for 450 yards 4 tds, in a game and his team lost... End of story.. When have you heard a player or a great player brag about his stats in a game after a loss? Marino would definetly say Super Bowl, because that is why they play the game... To win in order to get a chance to win the big one.... Personal accomplishments are secondary...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Captkoi- as has been said above as well, Players
> dont play for individual accomplishments, they
> play to win as a team... Marino wasnt happy when
> he threw for 450 yards 4 tds, in a game and his
> team lost... End of story.. When have you heard a
> player or a great player brag about his stats in a
> game after a loss? Marino would definetly say
> Super Bowl, because that is why they play the
> game... To win in order to get a chance to win the
> big one.... Personal accomplishments are
> secondary...

________________________________________________________

I agree with you, but at the same time, I disagree with you.

No, they don't play for individual accomplishments, and you are correct, they play to win as a team. However, that isn't the end of the story.

Players don't look at individual games and brag. The HOF is based on a player's career. I don't believe I have ever heard a HOF speech where they mentioned they would rather have had a SB ring than be standing at the podium at the HOF.

captkoi Wrote:

> I don't
> believe I have ever heard a HOF speech where they
> mentioned they would rather have had a SB ring
> than be standing at the podium at the HOF.

Me neither. But I also haven't heard a Super Bowl victory speech where anybody mentioned they'd rather get in the HOF five years after they retire, than be standing at the podium getting that Lombardi trophy.

Well let me put my 2 cents....

RING VS HALL OF FAME...

BASKETBALL EXAMPLE....

Juwon howard got a ring...He will never be in the hall of fame.

Marino never got a ring but has all the records and is in the hall of fame.

I rather be marino. Im DONE.

Also to me a ring is a team accomplishment.

The hall of fame is all you.

Of course, you realize that last post can be turned against your position, SamSam. In other words, "it's all about me?"

Let me rephrase that..................The hall of fame is about how good a player is!

Yeah, and I think that shows that people are talking about two different questions.

Some people see the question as how good the player is and argue, quite rightly, that the worth of the player is more accurately guaged by his statistics. They argue it is better to go into the Hall of Fame which is a test of the worth of the individual player.

The other people are talking about what that person would (or maybe should) rather PERSONALLY prefer to accomplish, the HOF or a SB ring. In the final analysis, that question depends on the person. No one can answer it for anybody else.

I think that without question it will bug Dan Marino (not in a competitive way but in a factual way) that although both he and Bob Griese are in the Hall of Fame, Griese has two rings to his none.

I don't think it's any question that Bob would give back his HOF honor if God said, "I'm going to take one of them from you. You choose. The two SB rings or the HOF induction."

But people are arguing, perhaps wrongly but I share it with them, that Dan Marino would, if asked, "I can give you an SB ring but you'll have to give up the HOF induction" would say, "You've got yourself a deal."

I've never understood the HOF vs SB ring comparison. To me, it's illogical. One is intended to focus on individual achievement, the other on team. They are mutually exclusive, in my opinion.

Just answer this guy......


Let me turn it to basketball...

Who would you rather be..?

Juwon Howard with his NBA ring...?

Or Charles Barkley?

I mean....you can have a superbowl ring and at the same time not contribute a thing for it to be won.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2012 05:46AM by samsam3738.

So, let's throw a wrench into this. How about the league MVP? Superbowl MVP?

Lets take track for example... If you run solo races then it is all about you the individual. If you decide to run relays, with a team, and lets say you personally run the fastest leg anyone in history has ever run, but your team finishes last in the relay...What does it matter... You are the guy who holds the record for running the fast leg ever in a relay, and you and your team dont have medals or the pleasure of succeeding at what you sought out to do as a team...
You should have stuck to individual races.... If you want individual recognition, play an individual sport. If you are looking for or most desiring of individual accomplishments, football isnt for you, you are in the wrong sport....Just like running in a relay vs competing as an individual.
LT, said what he said because, he can no longer compete for a Superbow and as a teaml, and didnt get one. The only thing he can compete for now is individual recognition threw lobbying the HOF electors.... So his answer makes sense coming from a guy who didnt win as a team... Start lobbying for the next greatest honor, you can get from a bunch of jounralist types, while no longer competing on the field with a team....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

montequi Wrote:
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> So, let's throw a wrench into this. How about the
> league MVP? Superbowl MVP?


SUperbowl MVP hands down...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche