Reports say Bess partially tore his ACL in the last game. His speed could be impacted . We need a Welker like Joe Adams type quick slot WR

Bess is one of the slowest WRs in the NFL. Speed has never been part of his game.

This offense doesn't want specialists. They want receivers who can line up at any of the WR positions. Do they have a pure slot guy? No. For that reason, Bess may not have a long term future here. But, his knee won't be part of that decision.

Bess does line up at every position. I read a stat last year that said he lined up more outside than he did in the slot.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

So this was 4 months ago? He should be ready to go come June /July. He is not fast, but he needs to be able to cut.

Didn't need surgery so that was a good sign. He should be fine.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So this was 4 months ago? He should be ready to
> go come June /July. He is not fast, but he needs
> to be able to cut.

******************************************************

Bess isn't fast, he's quick and has great hands.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bess does line up at every position. I read a stat
> last year that said he lined up more outside than
> he did in the slot.


He doesn't really. He lines up at slot and at Z. He does not line up at X, as his skills just don't fit there at all. Last year, the Fins made a huge effort to get Brandon Marshall more one on one matchups. One way they did this was to line him up in the slot, with Hartline at X, and Bess at Z (normally, Marshall would be at X and Hartline at Z). Bess can do some of the middle of the field stuff needed from the Z, but it's not his strong suit at all. And he can't really do any of the downfield stuff for the position. He can fill in there in a pinch, but he's not suited for it. He is really limited to the slot if you want to make best use of his talent.

I love Bess. I think he works hard, and he's made himself into a very good player. But, I don't know how well he fits in the new vision. Maybe they'll love him. But, a big part of the WCO is short passes being turned into big gains. And Bess doesn't have the speed to outrun anyone. And counting almost $4M against the cap in 2013? I don't know that he'll be kept around.

Dolanmark,,

You honestly are a real pessimist!

You are happy they got rid of Marshall,
They should dump bess...their best proven receiver on the roster
They should dump moore...(probably our 2nd most productive qb since Marino)


What other eye opening moves are you hoping for?


You want to use a bunch of no name rookie receivers drafted in the 6th and 7th rounds...and you expect to compete with the patriots?


BRO.....pleeeeeeese


Wake Up!

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dolanmark,,
>
> You honestly are a real pessimist!
>
> You are happy they got rid of Marshall,
> They should dump bess...their best proven receiver
> on the roster
> They should dump moore...(probably our 2nd most
> productive qb since Marino)
>
>
> What other eye opening moves are you hoping for?
>
>
> You want to use a bunch of no name rookie
> receivers drafted in the 6th and 7th rounds...and
> you expect to compete with the patriots?
>
>
> BRO.....pleeeeeeese
>
>
> Wake Up!

I am thrilled they got rid of Marshall. You don't win with selfish players.

I never said they should dump Bess. In fact, I said that I love Bess. But, he may not fit what this coaching staff wants in a receiver long term. I'm just saying that it's not a lock he will be around long term. If I had to guess, I am going to guess that they will fall in love with Bess' work ethic and route running, and keep him around. But, I wouldn't put money on it.

Matt Moore is the third most talented QB on the roster. And he has some trade value. And his presence limits the amount of practice reps given to our first round pick. And his upside is a backup QB. He had 4 outstanding games last year. In the other 9, he was lousy (5 TD and 8 INT combined). So, you move him if you can.

I rate QBs on how many points we score. After all, that is their job, and the only aspect of the game they really have any control over. Since Marino, the most productive QBs we have had have been:

Jay Fiedler 2001, 8th in points scored
Jay Fiedler 2002, 12th
Chad Henne 2009, 15th
Gus Frerotte 2005, 16th
Jay Fiedler 2000, 16th
Jay Fiedler 2003, 17th

Who is the Patriots best WR? And what round was he drafted in?

You obviously have no clue...

I guess since you didn't list chad penningtons probowl season with us in your top 6 "most productive" qb seasons, then he was garbage too...

Don't put all your stock in just stats ....

Pennington was the single reason, we got 11 wins and won the division...

He was great on 3rd down, and was extremely clutch when it counted.


I see some similarities with Moore...and YES ...he does deserve a chance to compete!

Don't be surprised if he beats everyone out, and is our starter come opening day!


To answer your question,,,,Wes welker and randy moss were integral parts to the patriots success...

At their peaks , they were considered top 5 best Receivers in the game...

Welker?

Currently the patriots best receivers are their tight ends... And they were drafted in the 1st three rounds....

Agree Moore is the best QB we have at this time. Dolfanmark did you see garrard play last time he was healthy ?

Come on Mark you're discrediting yourself.

Fiedler was garbage. Henne was worse. And Frerotte was a recycled plastic bag. At this stage in his career Matt Moore is a better NFL QB than those 3. And Bess isn't gone quite yet. The kid is a gamer. He makes plays and finds a way to get open FAST and catches the ball. Is he a home run threat? No. But he's a player.

Beyond that, what he's done in the past in a different system does not mean he's incapable of being productive in Philbin's scheme. Before we trade or cut everyone lets let things play out a bit...

steviec13 Wrote:

>
> Pennington was the single reason, we got 11 wins
> and won the division...

We played the weakest schedule in the NFL. Tom Brady missed the whole year. The wildcat won us two games when it was new, against New England and San Diego, that allowed us to win the tiebreaker to win the division. Pennington took care of the ball, didn't turn it over. He was part of the reason, but he was not the single reason. We were 21st in the league in points scored, so our offense wasn't very good.


>
>
> To answer your question,,,,Wes welker and randy
> moss were integral parts to the patriots
> success...
>

That doesn't answer my question. I asked who their best WR is. Please note "WR" and "is". WR means not TEs. And "is" means present tense, not some guy who played for them in past years. It's Wes Welker. And what round was he drafted in? And what round was Davone Bess drafted in?

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree Moore is the best QB we have at this time.
> Dolfanmark did you see garrard play last time he
> was healthy ?


I did. 65% completions, 23 TD, passer rating of 91, and ran for 279 yards and 5 TD.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come on Mark you're discrediting yourself.
>
> Fiedler was garbage.

Our best offenses in the post Marino era were under Jay Fiedler. It's not even close, and there isn't an argument that can be made to dispute it. It's a fact. I'm not saying Fiedler was great, but he did lead the best offenses we've had since Marino. What is the point of offense? To score points. And Fiedler's offenses did that more consistently compared to the rest of the league than anyone else we've had.

During last years work stop Bess spent his time in Hati digging ditches to help drainage. he is more then just a quality reciever, he is a quality person . And this team needs that more then ever.

I like turtles.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

DM,

So you r basically saying that it was a fluke that the dolphins won 11 games with Pennington!

Sorry, I don't buy it!

What does everyone else on this board think?

Ummmm....ehhhhh, I do think there was a lot of luck involved. We were very fortunate that season in many ways.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Mark, I have to say that I take issue with how you judge QB play, especially since you are known as the resident stat guy.

Just saying that points scored doesn't equal level of QB play. It might serve as an indicator but other factors such as: talent of the other players on the offense, quality of playcalling, good/bad situations they got put into because of the defense, quality of opponents, etc.

Your correlation between QB play and points scored stands on very shaky ground.

All that said, I do agree with you in this thread. Our best offenses were with Fiedler, Bess is questionable as a long term fit, Moore is not a great fit for the WCO and, depending on Garrard and Tannyhill, is not a lock to be on the team this year.

And it's pointless to argue about the best QB since Marino. It's like lining up a bunch of ugly girls in a row and debating who is the least ugly.

As good as Bess is.....I don't believe he has Tapped all he can do. I believe he is better then Welker. Can you imagine Bess with a Real quality QB? If we are seriously taking a run at the West Coast Offense we need a Reciever of his kind.

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DM,
>
> So you r basically saying that it was a fluke that
> the dolphins won 11 games with Pennington!
>
> Sorry, I don't buy it!
>
> What does everyone else on this board think?




In his 8 year career Pennington only played 16 games twice. That season was one of them. It's also the only time he won 11 games. He also set career marks in most passing categories.

I'd call it a fluke.

Id say we were lucky as hell that season...

Treasure coast,

I agree with you on Bess!

According to DM, he should be jettisoned because of his high salary and slowness!

Regarding Pennington...he didn't help miami to 11 wins because of his arm strength...it was because of his efficiency...he has probably the highest completion percentage of any qb out there.
He was also extremely efficient on 3rd down...

His issue was staying healthy... I assure you that had he stayed healthy we would have won a lot more games with him under center than Henne.

Since Marino, he was the best qb we have had...

steviec13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Treasure coast,
>
> I agree with you on Bess!
>
> According to DM, he should be jettisoned because
> of his high salary and slowness!
>
> Regarding Pennington...he didn't help miami to 11
> wins because of his arm strength...it was because
> of his efficiency...he has probably the highest
> completion percentage of any qb out there.
> He was also extremely efficient on 3rd down...
>
> His issue was staying healthy... I assure you that
> had he stayed healthy we would have won a lot more
> games with him under center than Henne.
>
> Since Marino, he was the best qb we have had...


Saying we would of won more games "if Pennington would of stayed healthy" is kinda like saying "if that midget wasn't so short, he'd be a really good basketball player" isn't it? If Penny wasn't injury prone, he would of never been available to us.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Id say we were lucky as hell that season...


Again and i will quote myself....

If tom brady doesnt get injured that year we do not win the afc east yes as much as i hate the pats its the truth.

We won the east with a qb whose fastball was about 62 miles per hour.

Lucky.

I enjoyed it much but..

Lucky is the word.