At one time, I voted on one of the multiple poll questions to draft Coples if Tannehill wasn't our guy. I'm starting to get an un-easy feeling about this guy. Greg Cosell doesn't even have him listed as a first rnd pick, and now I see this tweet quoting Charlie Casserly about him;

Omar Kelly
Also In Miami Dolphins
I completely agree with Charlie Casserly, who I believe was one of the best drafting GMs, when he assessed UNC's Quinton Coples as the draft's biggest boom or bust prospects. "This guy was a top 10 pick (in 2010). There was no question about motor or effort. Go to 2011, Butch Davis is fired. They switched the style of play on defense and he does not play well. Put him out in space and he shows big time pass rush ability. If he's 2010, you got a future Pro Bowler. 2011, you'll be disappointed."


Some of you College guys, what's the story with this kid?

That is the story with him.

Inconsistent. Incredibly talented.

If you motivate him and use him right he's a star DE.

If he is what he showed his last year then he's going to be a disappointment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2012 06:47AM by THE Truth.

I saw him in person last fall and he was impressive in the game against us. With that being said, I watched several of his other games and saw a guy who look uninterested most of the time.

I understand that UNC was a in a transition period last season, but if he can't be fully invested in a season determining his NFL draft stock, you can't expect him to be motivated on a rebuilding Dolphins team.

Coples = big risk @8. Great pick R2.

Guys with motor/desire ???'s are really tricky. Most of the time, they don't make the transistion to the NFL because it's really in the head.

I'd take Ingram before Colpes. Tho marvelous Marvin is more OLB. But I could see him playing ILB and OLB - moving the kid around to maximize his football terrorism… And I think he’ll be a legit NFL terrorist. Perhaps a serious Lady Killer!

He’s got a damn fine motor and the kid loves football. Great athlete and hungry…

Much better pick @8 IMO.

BNF.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coples = big risk @8. Great pick R2.
>
> Guys with motor/desire ???'s are really tricky.
> Most of the time, they don't make the transistion
> to the NFL because it's really in the head.
>
> I'd take Ingram before Colpes. Tho marvelous
> Marvin is more OLB. But I could see him playing
> ILB and OLB - moving the kid around to maximize
> his football terrorism… And I think he’ll be a
> legit NFL terrorist. Perhaps a serious Lady
> Killer!
>
> He’s got a damn fine motor and the kid loves
> football. Great athlete and hungry…
>
> Much better pick @8 IMO.
>
> BNF.


The problem for us is that everyone we would consider at #8 has issues/question marks.

Ingram has short arms.
Coples has questions about his desire.
Cox isn't a need or really a good fit for our scheme.
Floyd is a diva with character concerns.
Tannehill is inexperienced.

The only guy in that range who doesn't have issues is DeCastro but he is a guard and you can find solid guards anywhere in the draft.

At this point, I'm so down on the other options that I'd prefer to trade down, but if we stick at #8 I'm leaning towards Tannehill out of need/hope (admittedly a bad way to draft) or DeCastro who is the one player in that 8-20 range I firmly believe will have a GREAT career.

Short arms but the dude makes plays and wants to be in on every play. I think he'll add even more explosiveness / power and nobody is going to want to block this dude in the NFL.

He's my pick for defensive rokie of the year. I know. He could suck. But seriously, the kid is just a football machine and he's an animal...

He's a great athlete -- really superior and when you think about moving him around (and NOT playing DE) it gets exciting... Being creative with him and Wake at the same time... Dude. That's good stuff.

BTW. See my Mock. I have Ingram and add Bruce Irwin (via trade-up R4). That could be some NASTY shit on the field at the same time!

Kill the Lady. Make her bleed!

BNF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2012 07:11AM by BigNastyFish.

Ingram is 6'1 with T Rex arms. It is a serious concern.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

If you only follow the measurables then...whatever.

I've seen enough of the dude on video to really see him ripping it up. The OLB for Pitts comes to mind. But Ingram is more explosive. Whatever he may lack in ideal arm length he more than makes up with explosiveness, desire, intensity, power, blah blah.

I mean come on. We all remember Zack Thomas? Short. No arms at all. But the dude played football like an animal. Ingram is a vastly superior athlete to Zack, but there's a similarity to their game (tho I doubt Marvelous will be the football genius Thomas was).

IMO Ingram is a pretty much a guaranteed impact disruptor on D as long as he’s moved around and NOT stuck at DE. Tho he could line wide on passing and pressure from there…



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2012 07:23AM by BigNastyFish.

Hey, I'm a Gamecock fan. Seen all 14 games he started at SC. Trust me, I know him.

He absolutely dominated this past season and was hands down the best player on the team. But prior to that, in his other 4 seasons, he was average.

Don't get me wrong, if he plays like he did his Senior year, he will be an All Pro. But if he plays like he did his previous seasons, he will be Phillip Merling.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you only follow the measurables
> then...whatever.
>
> I've seen enough of the dude on video to really
> see him ripping it up. The OLB for Pitts comes to
> mind. But Ingram is more explosive. Whatever he
> may lack in ideal arm length he more than makes up
> with explosiveness, desire, intensity, power, blah
> blah.
>
> I mean come on. We all remember Zack Thomas?
> Short. No arms at all. But the dude played
> football like an animal. Ingram is a vastly
> superior athlete to Zack, but there's a similarity
> to their game (tho I doubt Marvelous will be the
> football genius Thomas was).
>
> IMO Ingram is a pretty much a guaranteed impact
> disruptor on D as long as he’s moved around and
> NOT stuck at DE. Tho he could line wide on passing
> and pressure from there…

But hats the problem. At 270 lbs he's going to bea de for us.

We are clearly moving to a 4-3. Just look at how small the olb's we've been signing and working out.

As a de in that scheme he's as big a risk as coples but for different reasons.

If you want a guy that gets to the qb from de but can play OLB in a
4-3 them you want nick perry or Andre branch.

Merling is SOFT upstairs. I don't get that impression with Ingram at all. In fact, he's intent on being a big-time playmaker and a leader on the field. Like they say, it's in the eyes. And this kid has "it" IMO.

All I know is that the dude is a monster when he gets a little space, and I don't think his chops where exploited the way they could have been in college. What's your take on that?

Unsure why he suddenly emerged in his senior year, but it sounds like the staff finally figured out a way to get him on the field and open things up a bit. It seemed where EVER they put him he made shit happen! That's a really RARE quality, and worth a TON in the NFL.

Truth, we have enough DL to play hybrid. We need PLAYMAKERS and disruptors on the D. I’m like 99% sure we would NOT draft Ingram with the plan of sitting him stationary at 4-3 DE. So get a little creative and think about this kid playing “LB” and moving around a bit. His burst up the middle is frightening. And at 260 or so he’s still fast as a safety! The dude is flying downfield making INT’s (great football chops) and then returning fake punts 70+ yards for a TD. I want that kind of stuff on the field!

Ingram presents the kind of “problem” coaches dream about. He’s capable of playing a number of positions and having an IMPACT all over the field. Remember AJ Duhe?

BNF, I like Ingram but don't love him. I really like the other guy you mentioned, Bruce Irvin out of WV. Irvin is only a pass rusher, the guy couldn't play base downs in college so there is no way he can do it in the NFL. However, he is probably the best pass rusher in the draft. Watch his tape, his athleticism is crazy and he can't be blocked. We could grab in the third round I think. He would be great to bring in on passing situations.

Truth is right, all the DE/OLB in this draft class have question marks, it doesn't seem like a great draft for that position. However, next years draft has a couple elite DE/OLB types. I would love to get Sam Montgomery, LSU, or Jarvis Jones, Georgia, next year, they will be beasts in the NFL.

It's not always about measurables, but short arms are a real problem for a pass rusher.

Remember, Ireland is a prototype guys. He likes guys who are physical prototypes for positions. He has hinted numerous times that straying from prototypes (Pat White) is what got them into trouble. In the past, he has said he wants prototypical players who were productive.

Well, the vaunted "prototype" thing is raccoon shit to me. I've beat on that subject a ton, and with that kind of paint by numbers erector set mentality Ireland will NEVER be successful as a REAL talent evaluator. Dudes like Zack Thomas et cetera will never get a second look. I mean, draft real football players. Dudes that make it happen on the field.

I HATE the prototype formula BS approach and junk like Merling and Toledo and Turner and Murphy and so on prove the formula crap doesn’t work. No better than throwing a dart at the board…

We can only hope "Project Big" is totally over with and we find a way to actually draft football players -- even the ones that don’t quite fit some ridiculous standard for “predestined NFL greatness.”

Talk is the Jets are looking at a trade up to land Ingram. IMO that would be a really amazing move and Ryan will definitely find numerous ways to unleash a guy like that. If we’re stupid enough to pass on players because their arms a “2 inches under ideal spec” then we deserve the SOS we’ve been dealing with.

BNF, the truth is that the draft in general is a crap shoot. For every guy with good football instincts and poor measurables that succeeds there are at least twice as many that fail. Same the other way.

I know what the "draft" is. I'm talking about having the inate SKILL to evaluate a player and make a projection beyond some supposed formula.

like

6-3 225 38 inch arms = good

6-1 230 35 inch arms = bad

Sorry. That kind of "thinking" eliminates a bunch of possible good football players. Which is probably WHY they use it. To make their jobs easier and reduce the process to comparing "facts" based on some supposed "ideal."

Like I said. A dweeb like that would NEVER give a player like Zack Thomas a second look. Sounds like a chimp could make those kind of decisions...

But we are not talking about a 6'1 MLB.


We are talking about a 6'1 DT who is undersized, with the shortest arms of all LB's & DT's.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I'm talking about the kid being used in the RIGHT manner. And like I said above, NOT as a stationary DE. This kid’s biggest asset is versatility, and that’s what I’m talking about. On any one play he can be @DE or OLB or ILB or some creative combination of the same. That kind of positional flex = a nightmare for the OL… I mean seriously, a creative DC can have a blast with this kind of talent!

Bottom line, he makes plays ALL over the field, and is a seriously explosive footballer with bad intent. He’s a superb athlete (“freaky”) and has the mindset to be dominant force on every play. So what’s the problem?

You’re telling me his arms are an inch or two short? I’m not buying that…

I think his future in the NFL will be jaw dropping IF he lands in the right spot and is used like I’m talking about. Of course, that’s my take. And I could be off. But we’ll see…

Again, as a Gamecock fan, I love Melvin Ingram. I hope he is an All Pro, but he scares the crap out of me.

I'm not sure if he is a 1 year wonder or what.

Anywho, I'm pulling for him no matter where he goes.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

The consensus everywhere is we take Thill...

I'm not super excited on that, but I'll support the choice if.

There's a really good possibility Ingram lands in NY, or even (E-GADS) with Billygoat and the Lady. I think in either place he'll hurt us for years...

If we don't get him I hope he lands in the NFC. Or maybe KFC.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is the story with him.
>
> Inconsistent. Incredibly talented.
>
> If you motivate him and use him right he's a star
> DE.
>
> If he is what he showed his last year then he's
> going to be a disappointment.


I hope he implodes on the Jets. Completely surrounded by selfish Prima donna's hopefully help his follow the inconsistent label.........

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That is the story with him.
> >
> > Inconsistent. Incredibly talented.
> >
> > If you motivate him and use him right he's a
> star
> > DE.
> >
> > If he is what he showed his last year then he's
> > going to be a disappointment.
>
>
> I hope he implodes on the Jets. Completely
> surrounded by selfish Prima donna's hopefully help
> his follow the inconsistent label.........


Yes Treasure good, then we can pick him up for chump change and turn him around into a pro bowl player. The master plan has begun.