Did you guys see Brandon Weeden on the Sports Science drill, throwing a football at clay pigeons... With timing and accuracy like that, I find it hard to believe he couldnt adjust to a WCO. That was impressive....
5 inch clay pigeon moving at 43 mph ten yards away, and at one point he hit 4 out of 5... Impressive, on timing and accuracy...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

With the exception of Andrew Luck (and even then, not necessarily) Brandon Weeden is the most NFL ready QB in this years draft in my opinion. Watching him in college, the guy looked like he played like an NFL veteran. Although, the fact that he's 47 years old may have something to do with that

But regardless, I think along with Andrew Luck, he's the least risky bet in this years draft. I think you know exactly what you're going to get when you select him. Guys like Luck and RGIII and even Tannehill (though the risk factor is through the rook with him) all have higher ceilings IMO than Brandon Weeden, but they may not reach those ceilings while Weeden will be very good if not great in this league. I think he can step in and start immediately for a team. In fact, if he was 23 years old, I think he'd be a top 10 pick this year.


He may not fit this West Coast offense system we're supposedly going to try to install down here, but I wouldn't be upset at all if we picked up a premier pass rusher or something in the 1st and then took Weeden in the 2nd if he fell that far down to us.

And with the rookie wage scale no longer being an insanely ridiculous system of paying guys exorbitant contracts, it wouldn't be a disaster if we had a stud QB for 6-7 years. That's more than a band-aide or short-term fix, it would be more of a legit 7 year solution.

I would love it if we drafted down and picked him up.

But have no problem grabbing Tan if he's there at 8. As long as they get the player they want.

Let's sign a bunch of clay pigeons at WR!!

My main problem with Weedon is he's a "tweener", nothing to do with his skills but his draft position, if Ireland and CO decides to pass on Tannehill, I have no problem with that......BUT, they've painted themselves in the corner by declaring a much needed upgrade at QB, so we all know (or assume anyway) that Miami will be taking a QB early this year. No way in hell I wanna give up our 2nd and two 3rds to get back into the bottom of the 1st to take Weedon, the only way I want Weedon is if we trade down from 8 or he's there with our 2nd pick.

Makes no sense to pass on a project who fits and knows your system at #8, to then give up a #2 and TWO #3's for a project that doesn't really fit your system.

Dolph- sorry I dont remotely get what you are saying? A "tweener?

You dont think it makes sense to pass on a project who fits and knows your system? .......for a guy that doesnt really fit your system...

It all most seems like you think drafting a guy that knows the offense is more important then talent with that comment... And how do you know Weeden doesnt fit the system? 2 important factors with WCO, is timing and accuracy.... 4 out of 5 clay pigeons picked off mid air at 43+ mph takes incredibe precision timing and surgical accuracy..
Dolph, if you think a GM should choose a player over another guy because he knows the system...I am not sure what to think..... Tannehill did know the system well enough to have his team be a huge dissappintment going from ranked #8 to off the top 25. and get his coach fired ... IS that the benefit of knowing the system, you speak of?

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Sorry Crowder, I had a few watching the UFC last night, maybe I should of explained the "tweener" comment better. What I meant was, his draft position is gonna fall somewhere towards the end of the 1st rnd (right be"tween" our picks), so the only way to get him is to trade up from the 2nd or down from #8. I'm OK with trading down to get him, picking up extra picks in the process, I'm OK with taking him with our pick in the 2nd rnd (doubtful he'll still be there), but I'm absolutely against trading back up into the first to get him, (assuming it would take our 2nd and both 3rds to do it). It's been said, the strength of this draft in our area of needs (WR & pass rusher) is the 2nd and 3rd rnds, I don't wanna lose those 3 picks.

Your assumption is that Weedon and Tannehill are even in the skills department (or it looks like you might think Weedon is a better prospect?) Mine is not, every wart that Tannehill has, Weedon has more or he'd be talked about as a top ten pick also. I'm sick of hearing "if it wasn't for his age, he'd be a top ten pick" that's the biggest hype thing i've ever heard. If a team thought he was that talented and could be a franchise QB for even 5 yrs, they'd be morons not to take him in the top ten. If he's that good and these clay pigeons impressed you that much, shouldn't we take him at #8?

It's been said Weedon doesn't fit a WCO, something about mobility, footwork and accuracy, if that's true or not, I have no clue, thats for the scouts, coaches and GM to figure out.
My untrained eye says Weedon is at his ceiling, is his ceiling high enough? Only time will tell.

Weedens age is the only thing keeping him from being discussed in top 15

Tannehill has more mobility, Weson a better pocket passer

Still a lot of talk about possibly the Chiefs jumping us to the 6 or 7 spot.

Hasselbeck played in WCO and style is much like Weeden

Give Moore some weapons and he can do just as well

Drop down and make some more quality picks, Tannehill may still be there

Dolph-

Tannehill- is younger and a better scrambler for sure as jlyell, said,

I would bet Weeden has the slight advantage in arm strength.

Weeden won football games in fact he only lost one game all season.. Tannehill lost 6... And they played in the same conference, with very similar schedules... I like that Weeden closed out games and won...
Weeden from what i saw on sports science, was impressive, accuracy and timing, probably better then anyone in the draft... It is not easy to hit a 5inch pigeon traveling 43+ mph at 30 feet away, and hit 4 out of 5.
Last year as a player Weeden' stats improved from the year before, Tannehill's declined..

by the numbers-
Weeden passing 4727 completion % 72.3 TD 37 INT 13 QB 159.8
Tannehill passing 3744 completion % 61.6 TD 29 INT 15 QB 133.2

There isnt a category that Tannehill outperformed Weeden, playing against the same teams...
SO how would you say Tannehill is a more talented QB then Weeden, by what standard? I can not find anything that Tannehill was better at? Please explain?

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2012 09:29AM by Crowder52.

Ok Crowder, you're sold on Weedon, now for arguments sake, how do we get him?

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dolph-
>
> Tannehill- is younger and a better scrambler for
> sure as jlyell, said,
>
> I would bet Weeden has the slight advantage in arm
> strength.
>
> Weeden won football games in fact he only lost one
> game all season.. Tannehill lost 6... And they
> played in the same conference, with very similar
> schedules... I like that Weeden closed out games
> and won...
> Weeden from what i saw on sports science, was
> impressive, accuracy and timing, probably better
> then anyone in the draft... It is not easy to hit
> a 5inch pigeon traveling 43+ mph at 30 feet away,
> and hit 4 out of 5.
> Last year as a player Weeden' stats improved from
> the year before, Tannehill's declined..
>
> by the numbers-
> Weeden passing 4727 completion % 72.3 TD 37 INT
> 13 QB 159.8
> Tannehill passing 3744 completion % 61.6 TD 29 INT
> 15 QB 133.2
>
> There isnt a category that Tannehill outperformed
> Weeden, playing against the same teams...
> SO how would you say Tannehill is a more talented
> QB then Weeden, by what standard? I can not find
> anything that Tannehill was better at? Please
> explain?
********************************************************************


I'm not pitching for either one of them; whichever guy the Fins choose I will support and hope he does well.

Stats aren't everything, Crowder, as I am sure you are well aware. Whose OL was better? Who had the better receivers? Who had the better running game? Who had the better defense? Who had the better turnover ratio on defense?

How did the guy play under pressure? How much freedom did the coaching staff give him?

Lots of questions that the Fins brass must answer before they can make their selection.

Both QBs are thought of very highly by all the "experts." Both have negatives as well as positives.

Now, what is Miami's conviction?

When faced with more than 2 pass rushers, Brandon Wheedon has the worst competition percentage of any QB coming out of the draft, throwing mid 40%.

He is terrible under fire.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When faced with more than 2 pass rushers, Brandon
> Wheedon has the worst competition percentage of
> any QB coming out of the draft, throwing mid 40%.
>
> He is terrible under fire.


so is tom brady... and most QB's.lol
Yes I watched first and ten too...WHy dont you give credit for where you heard it rather then act like you looked it up and have these stats in front of you..lol

What are the stats, can I see all of the QB's as it relates to this stat...Do you have the same stat for Tannehill? Can you give me proof? I would love to see that list of stats....lol

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Actually I didn't see it on First Take.

I seen it from Todd McShay when he was on Mike & Mike.

Sorry for not crediting someone else. I didn't post it to try and steal thunder, just simply stating the facts.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Again, I don't have the facts, just heard McShay talking about it saying that when this got under duress for Wheedon he became the most inaccurate QB of all the ones coming out.

But he said, when the environment was perfect (no blitzing), and he had a legit weapon in Blackmon, that Wheedon was very accurate.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

hey crowder52 your point of them playing in the same conference is a reality and a great point. I think it is rare to have two qb's so close in a draft that you can compare so many oppenents with. Infact I will take it a step further and say that i dont know if people know this but texas A&M was a preseason #9 in the nation and there was chatter about them being a dark horse to not only win the big 12 but to play for a national championship. There team was looked at as that good. And to have that much potential and go 7-6 sits solely on the qb... imjust saying.

Tannehill has lots of talent and I like him but he didnt get it done for a team that was poised for a huge season. I think this is the main reason that "experts" are concerned about his lack of experience.

Dang. The dude can hit onetwothreefour clay pigeons justlikethat!

I agree with Victor, "let's sign a bunch of clay pigeons at WR!!

((spinning smiley sticking its tongue out))

No doubt the Lady in NE wilts like a used tampon under pressure.

As far as Weeden vs. Tannehill, it’s really simple. If Weeden was 23 he’d be taken before Tannehill in a flash justlikethat!

If we pass on Tannehill, he could seriously tumble.

BNF.

Here's the thing. Many think that Weeden will not be there for us to grab him before he's picked in the late first round where he is expected to go.

But isn't that belief based on the assumption that Tannehill is already gone?

If Tannehill is still available between our first round number 8 and our second round number 9, there have to be TWO teams, one to pick Tannehill and ANOTHER to pick Weeden, before we would be OUT of the running for Weeden.

Anybody know TWO such teams?

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok Crowder, you're sold on Weedon, now for
> arguments sake, how do we get him?


You Trade down , take best available player , then grab him with the extra 2nd rounder.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphaholic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ok Crowder, you're sold on Weedon, now for
> > arguments sake, how do we get him?
>
>
> You Trade down , take best available player , then
> grab him with the extra 2nd rounder.


Sounds so easy, who you trading down with and who's the "gotta have" player at #8 that another team needs? What's your back-up plan if we can't find a trading partner or another team grabs Weedon before our pick?

DOlph-
You have to hope Tannehill falls past KC. If he doesnt, then you have to pick before Cleveland at 22. IF we can aquire the needed pick by trading back do it. If you cant, you are going to have to trade up.

You need to make sure you have ammunition to get the player you want, if something unexpected happens.. Alot would depend on who our trade back partner might be...
Ideally i would like to have 2 picks in the top 25. If one of the elite players falls to us at 8. Then you would probably have to take him, and then trade back into the top 25 or so from our early 2nd rd pick...

IF not we need a trade back partner and we need Tannehill to fall as far as possible.. Tannehills drafting spot will help determine where Weeden goes...
My biggest concern in targeting Weeden, would be if someone takes him before Tannehill.. If Cleveland at 22 has both Tannehill and Weeden available, I am not convinced they take Tannehill over Weeden...but who knows...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2012 02:57AM by Crowder52.

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tannehill has lots of talent and I like him but he
> didnt get it done for a team that was poised for a
> huge season. I think this is the main reason that
> "experts" are concerned about his lack of
> experience.

I agree, one of my determining factors in choosing a QB. Is does he have that ability and drive to win football games...
Does he make the players around him better. Does he raise his teammates up to get the job done..
Tannehill hasnt shown me this. Weeden has...
Everybody makes excuses for Tannehill, his stats, his lack of wins, team mates dropping balls, defense failing him, Sherman being the reason Tannehill's offense stalled in many second halfs, after having leads..
TO me that just tells me, he doesnt have that "it" quality that make his teammates better. Tannehill's offense wilted in many second halfs to lose games, that scares me about having that "it" quality to get the win, in those tight games...
These factors scare me, about drafting him anywhere, let alone in th top ten... Can you teach a guy how to make his team mates better. Can you teach a guy how to close ball games and have that bullett proof desire to win.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DOlph-
> You have to hope Tannehill falls past KC. If he
> doesnt, then you have to pick before Cleveland at
> 22. IF we can aquire the needed pick by trading
> back do it. If you cant, you are going to have to
> trade up.
>
> You need to make sure you have ammunition to get
> the player you want, if something unexpected
> happens.. Alot would depend on who our trade back
> partner might be...
> Ideally i would like to have 2 picks in the top
> 25. If one of the elite players falls to us at 8.
> Then you would probably have to take him, and then
> trade back into the top 25 or so from our early
> 2nd rd pick...
>
> IF not we need a trade back partner and we need
> Tannehill to fall as far as possible.. Tannehills
> drafting spot will help determine where Weeden
> goes...
> My biggest concern in targeting Weeden, would be
> if someone takes him before Tannehill.. If
> Cleveland at 22 has both Tannehill and Weeden
> available, I am not convinced they take Tannehill
> over Weeden...but who knows...


I dont neccesarily disagree with any of this, but just keep in mind, the plan in 08 was; pass on M Ryan, take Flacco in the 2nd, (can't always control what other teams do), stuck with Henne.
Fast forward to 2012; pass on Tannehil, take Weedon late in the 1st/early 2nd? back up plan is Cousins?

I want to know why he missed the fifth clay pidgeon. Was he running out of gas? Was his arm getting tired? Was it the last second game winner in the red zone and he couldn't handle the pressure? These could indicate serious lapses that need to be addressed before the draft.
I'm amazed that nobody is discussing it.

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey crowder52 your point of them playing in the
> same conference is a reality and a great point. I
> think it is rare to have two qb's so close in a
> draft that you can compare so many oppenents with.
> Infact I will take it a step further and say that
> i dont know if people know this but texas A&M was
> a preseason #9 in the nation and there was chatter
> about them being a dark horse to not only win the
> big 12 but to play for a national championship.
> There team was looked at as that good. And to
> have that much potential and go 7-6 sits solely on
> the qb... imjust saying.
>
> Tannehill has lots of talent and I like him but he
> didnt get it done for a team that was poised for a
> huge season. I think this is the main reason that
> "experts" are concerned about his lack of
> experience.


A&M had the 70th ranked defense in he country giving up 28+ppg

Stanford was in the top 30 giving up nearly a full TD a game less.

How many more games does A&M win if their defense gives up 21 a game instead of 28? How good does Tannehill look then?

FYI, that second question a a trick question.

For what it's worth, RG3's Baylor defense gave up 37 ppg. You could argue that his defense was so bad his offensive numbers are inflated as a result. But that wouldn't change the fact that he was able to overcome that defense almost every week and win.

That's why I think he's the best player in this draft.

But the question regarding Tannehill isn't "is he on the same level as RG3?"

It's: "is Tannehill an NFL franchise qb?"

And neither Andrew luck, RG3, nor any of the defenses in the big 12 factor into answering that question.

dolphaholic Wrote:

> I usually agree with just about everything you say
> big stank (well after I figure it out that is),
> but i'm not buying the above statement at all. If
> Weedon was that good he'd be a top ten QB. (that
> little black dot stands for PERIOD) It would be
> assinine to pass on a sure fire talent because you
> thought you would "only" get 8/9 years out of him.
> That statement is an easy thing for a lot of so
> called pundits to say, but i'm just not buying it.
> Maybe if he was 23, his arm strength wouldn't be
> the same, he'd be less mature and he'd be a 3rd
> rnd prospect.

No problem. Disagreement is the first step towards understanding.

But in this case I do believe the “age thing” is a serious value adjustment because you can’t bank on a QB still functioning at a high level into his mid 30’s. Sure, it can happen, depending on genetics, diet, luck of the draw, and just how good is the surrounding cast…

IMO Weeden is significantly more NFL plug-and-play ready-to-rock out of the box than Tannehill. And he better be because he’s like “OLD” already.

Furthermore, in relation to the Miami Dolphins QB stable I think Wheeden could challenge for the starting spot on opening day. It is widely assumed Tannehill is a 2-3 year developmental investment. That’s OK because he’s still really young. But he’s NOT in the same class RIGHT NOW as Wheeden. In fact, Wheeden probably has the best NFL ready arm in the draft. My opinion of course.

The only “serious issue” for Wheeden IMO is his readiness for the NFL terminology and his core processor. The offense he ran was pretty simple by NFL standards and the “no huddle shot gun deal” means there are questions to resolve in other areas. But the kid really seems to have “it.” He beat the top QB’s in the draft head to head. So I think he’s a competitor and seems to have the knack to engineer wins. His leadership skills are well developed (as they should be with his maturity) and…

I wouldn’t be shocked is he winds up getting drafted 10-15 spots above where he’s currently projected. Bottom line, I seriously doubt he’ll be on the board for our #2.

Last, if we take Tannehill @8 and Wheeden lands in a good spot, chances are for a few years (until Tannehill is ready to rock, if indeed that ever happens...) a lot of folks around here will be wishing we had taken Wheeden. The dude definitely can come in a play ball right away, and folks around these parts really aren't interested in 2-3 years down the road. We've been in that mode forever.

A point worth considering in relation to where the team IS and what the history has been. Make it happen. Do it NOW!

BNF.

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I want to know why he missed the fifth clay
> pidgeon. Was he running out of gas? Was his arm
> getting tired? Was it the last second game winner
> in the red zone and he couldn't handle the
> pressure? These could indicate serious lapses that
> need to be addressed before the draft.
> I'm amazed that nobody is discussing it.


Sorry you can't see the impressiveness of it... Lets say the fastest receiver in the league runs 21 mph or so. And has a target span of 4+ yards....
You are talkin about a reciever moving double the speed of the fastest receiver, which means less reaction time for QB and the WR, will be through a single spot twice as quick as reality, the ball aslo has to be thrown hard to make that connection, Now the target or the WR, is the size of STuart Little....,with a window smaller then a dollar bill to through into..., if your timing is off by .1 seconds the ball misses by a foot, or more then double the size of the target itself...
It is the extreme of accuracy and timing with passing the football IMO

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Hooligan2 Wrote:
> I want to know why he missed the fifth clay pidgeon. Was he running out of gas? Was his arm getting tired? Was it the last second game winner in the red zone and he couldn't handle the pressure? These could indicate serious lapses that need to be addressed before the draft.
I'm amazed that nobody is discussing it.

****
No actually ... the truth is ... a real pigeon flew by after the 4th, he got distracted and threw at it ... (he hit it by the way). Keep it quite though cause the animal cruelty people will be on him for it.