Hokie Phin Wrote:
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> Bradford got injured quite a bit at Oklahoma with
> a stud offensive line. Blaine Gabbert looked poor
> because he's simply not that great of a QB. Same
> can be said for Ponder.
>
> Crowder, how did Cam Newton look behind the same
> line as Matt Moore in Carolina?


Cam Newton is a running threat and elite athlete, that has a tremendous effect on how good the oline needs to be... But there are only so many guys with Mike Vick type feet..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Bradford during his second season threw six touchdown passes in 10 starts, winning one game. He was sacked 36 times in 10 games

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 11:13AM by Crowder52.

Aaron Rodgers was sacked 36 times during the regular season. How many games did the Packers lose?

Roethelisberger was sacked 40 times. Matt Stafford 36 times. Both playoff teams somehow...

Let me repeat myself, Bradford was sacked 36 times in ten games... those guys sacks were in 16 games..... that is six more games.... I guess you missed that part?

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

No need to repeat yourself, I did not miss that part. I simply gave you the number of times that Rodgers, Roethlisberger and Stafford were sacked. All ranking in the top 6 most sacked Quaterbacks in the league. Just thought you might like to know.

Hokie Phin Wrote:
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> And as for my rose-colored glasses, they tell me
> that Matt Ryan was drafted by a 4-12 Atlanta
> Falcons team. He went there without having Jake
> Long to block for him, as you referenced. Yet
> somehow the Falcons organization found a way to
> build their franchise around Matt Ryan. And 4
> years later that franchise is in MUCH better shape
> than Miami.


And yet, how many playoff wins has Matt Ryan led them to?

For a season 36 is nothing, but 36 in ten games, on avg is over 55+ sacks on the season, just thought you might like to know this also.
So to me the comparison wasnt to strong.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> Of course, I agree with Crowder. Hokie and A & O,
> you two enemies of each other, I disagree.
>
> I realize that the rules have made passing easier
> and thus upped the necessity for a good passer.
>
> But it is always tempting to over-emphasize a
> point.
>
> We can agree to disagree but I think that the
> point is over-emphasized if you have concerns
> about Tannehill (which I know A & O doesn't so I
> am excepting him from this part) and you still
> gamble a top ten first round draft choice on him
> while passing on a possible staple of your offense
> for years to come at another position.
>
> And Hokie, I think you are looking through
> rose-colored glasses if you think that you would
> not be cursing Matty Ryan out now and calling him
> all kind of whores had he come here without Jake
> Long which of course he would have had to do.

********************************************************

I wasn't on these boards at the time of the Long vs Ryan controversy, but the other board I was on was very similar.

We can argue til our faces our blue on whether or not Matt Ryan should have been Miami's top choice, but what we all have to realize is that Bill Parcells was in charge of the draft, and his philosophy was to build the team from inside out, i.e., get the big uglies first. From what I understand, he still believes in that philosophy today. Thus, Jake Long was our guy.

None of us knows what would have happened had Ryan been the guy Miami drafted. He may have played very well; he may have gotten killed behind our line. Who knows?

The issue right now is after all these years of going after offensive linemen, especially with our HC being a former OL coach, it didn't work, and it is now time to get serious in getting a franchise QB. The only option Miami has is Tanney. The only other QB that is comparable with him is Weeden, but I can (almost) guarantee that he will be gone in the first round, probably mid- to late-first round.

Now, if Miami trades back and Weeden is available, would they take him?

Hokie on both your first two posts, the first one with the SB qbs and the second one about Matt Ryan, the thing that you do not account for (and this is the problem with you "You can win the Superbowl with a Great NFL Qb even if the rest of the team is composed of pee wee players under the age of 9" ) is that you just can't make a direct comparison until you look at the rest of the team.

As to the SuperBowl QBs, they did not do it BY THEMSELVES. As for Miami v. Atlanta, you just can't tell by the record alone. That's anecdotal. You've got to compare the players on both teams.

Now you say "but YOU brought up Jake Long!"

Yes I did. But I was simply saying take Jake Long away from OUR team and what would it have got us had we had Matt Ryan BUT NO JAKE LONG!

But what you are doing is looking at Atlanta without Matt Ryan. That's none of our business. The only important thing FOR THE MIAMI DOLPHINS IS WHAT WOULD THE DOLPHINS HAD ACCOMPLISHED WITH MATT RYAN AND WITHOUT JAKE LONG.

To compare Jake Long AND ALL THE REST OF THE PLAYERS on the Dolphin team and say that they are EXACTLY equal to ALL OF THE REST OF THE PLAYERS ON THE ATLANTA team is a fallacious and UN-scientific comparison.

Also, you are ignoring WHAT HAPPENED IN THOSE DRAFTS BETWEEN THE Ryan-Jake Long draft and this draft. Who was drafted to assist Ryan. Were those good drafts? The list of variables goes on.

You are also ignoring the coaching.

You are ignoring the WILDCAT plays that Matt Ryan did not have to come off the field for.

I know it is more comforting to reduce the complex to the simple and say "Just put Matt Ryan on the Dolphins and it would be us in Atlanta's shoes today" but it is just not that simple.

In the final analysis, the position that we would have been better off drafting Matt Ryan is just like those people on this board I have been arguing with and who now hate me because I say, "Just because we need a qb BADLY does not mean we should be forced to take a longshot with the 8th pick in the draft."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2012 12:06PM by ChyrenB.

Average is 55+ huh? Might want to check some math.

The most sacked QB in the NFL in the 2011 regular season, Alex Smith 44. So please Crowder explain how "average" is 55+?

Captkoi, I don't agree with your bottom line but I respect your analysis FAR MORE than I do those people who think that had we just drafted Matt Ryan, we'd be contending for the SuperBowl last year.

Hokie Phin Wrote:
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> Average is 55+ huh? Might want to check some math.
>
>
> The most sacked QB in the NFL in the 2011 regular
> season, Alex Smith 44. So please Crowder explain
> how "average" is 55+?


Hokie, Bradford started ten games, in those ten games he was sacked a whopping 36 times in a little over half a season. 2 games over to be exact. He was knocked out with a bad ankle sprain, and didnt play in 6 games... So the QB's you mentioned sacks were spread across 16 games. 6 games more then Bradford played in. Bradfords were only spread across 10 games. If you take the per game avg sacks, and multiply by the extra games, the players you mentioned played in. Then Bradford would have been sacked around 55 times give or take, if he had played in all 16 games.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> Captkoi, I don't agree with your bottom line but I
> respect your analysis FAR MORE than I do those
> people who think that had we just drafted Matt
> Ryan, we'd be contending for the SuperBowl last
> year.

*******************************************************

Guys, just as I asked on the other board I used to be on, just call me "Cap."

Anyway, I regret to say, Chyren, that I don't remember what my bottom line was

No offense to anyone on these boards, but what would be best if when replying to anyone's post, use the "quote." This way, I (and everyone else) will know what is being replied to.

Just a suggestion, guys (and gals if there are any on this board).

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guys, just as I asked on the other board I used to
> be on, just call me "Cap."

Well, Why don't you just change your name to "Cap." There is not one on the board and that name is available.

When you look at our moderators listed above, you see one is Phinsfan2. That person changed his to "THE Truth."

That is going to be a lot easier than trying to educated every person who responds to your post to call you Cap instead of what they are reading, CaptKoi, because even if the people reading this do that, then what about people who come and go on this board and who do not read this post.



>
> Anyway, I regret to say, Chyren, that I don't
> remember what my bottom line was
>
> No offense to anyone on these boards, but what
> would be best if when replying to anyone's post,
> use the "quote." This way, I (and everyone else)
> will know what is being replied to.

We usually do that but sometimes, as above, posts go by minute after minute like here. And When two people are arguing back and forth, we skip the "quote" function because it becomes more like a back and forth talking situation.
>
> Just a suggestion, guys (and gals if there are any
> on this board).

I was one who thought that OL was the most important single unit of players on a team. I don't remember if it was right before or just a bit after the 2008 draft that I changed my mind to QB. I wasn't upset that we picked Long and I wasn't in love with Ryan (still am not, really). I do agree that - especially in the last 5 years - the league is almost 100% qb driven. So, QB is the most important position.

And, given how the way the game is now called, I would say that I would rather have an elite pass rusher than an elite any-one-member of the OL. However, I think that the objective in building the OL should really be "no weak links". You don't have to build it with 1st rounders, but it should be built with folks who have enough talent to be part of a unit that operates with continuity. Again, this is where I'm excited about Philbin. He seems to have in mind the type of OL that will truly work as a unit...not just 5 huge 1st-rounders (or, I guess 4 last year).