I was watching NFL networks Bradshaw vs Staubach in SUperbowl, and one of the commentors made this comment.... And I really think it is the truest statement about the success of a QB I have heard in a long time...

You need some help to be a great QB...

SO if we can give whatever QB we put on the field some help, his chances of success and being great, improve drasticly..
Whether it is the coaches, the offensive weapons or the defense...You need some help to be a great QB...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Really goes without saying.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was watching NFL networks Bradshaw vs Staubach
> in SUperbowl, and one of the commentors made this
> comment.... And I really think it is the truest
> statement about the success of a QB I have heard
> in a long time...
>
> You need some help to be a great QB...
>
> SO if we can give whatever QB we put on the field
> some help, his chances of success and being great,
> improve drasticly..
> Whether it is the coaches, the offensive weapons
> or the defense...You need some help to be a great
> QB...

******************************************************

That's true, unless that QBs name is Marino.

Marino would have been a great QB no matter where he played. He got help in the form of Duper, Clayton, and Moore. He had some pretty good TEs also. His running game wasn't much to speak of and his OLine was pretty good, but only in pass blocking. Dan's defense didn't do a hell of a lot, either.

So, let me get this right, you are using a statement from 40 years ago to form an opinion about a game that isn't even the same as it was when Marino played?

40 years ago? Wow.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, let me get this right, you are using a
> statement from 40 years ago to form an opinion
> about a game that isn't even the same as it was
> when Marino played?
>
> 40 years ago? Wow.


Nope I am using a recent statement, the game is just old... SOrry to offend you with posting such a statement as You need some help to be a great QB.....
Does this one offend you as well..."Leaders are made, they are not born. They are made by hard effort, which is the price which all of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile.
Vince Lombardi
Or how about "Once you learn to quit it becomes a habit" Vince Lombardi..... Those quotes are over 40 years do they offend you as well... SHould we wipe away all history and books older then ten years as irrelevant, to appease A&O... lol

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2012 09:10AM by Crowder52.

Do I say I was offended? Pretty sure I didn't.

You seem to be making things up like Chyren has been doing lately.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Lately?

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do I say I was offended? Pretty sure I didn't.
>
> You seem to be making things up like Chyren has
> been doing lately.


SO let me get this straight, you write smug cynical comments, and form a negative opinion against a simple quote by insinuating it is outdated, and some how deem it irrelevant on that fact alone...WOW What was the sense, what did you ad, other then negativity for no reason... You have been attacking alot of people around here, becasue of your man crush for Tannehill... A&O, if this is how you wanna respond or come at me..... F*ck off

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2012 01:49PM by Crowder52.

Crowder...

Can you actually read?

Ask anybody on this board who my man crush is and they will tell you....

Here is a hint....it's not Ryan Tannehill.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

All I asked was that you are willing to use a statement from 40 years ago to justify today's game of football and you cuss me.

Wow. Thought we were friends, bud.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

All players need help to be great. It is a team game.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do I say I was offended? Pretty sure I didn't.
> >
> > You seem to be making things up like Chyren has
> > been doing lately.
>
>
> SO let me get this straight, you write smug
> cynical comments, and form a negative opinion
> against a simple quote by insinuating it is
> outdated, and some how deem it irrelevant on that
> fact alone...WOW What was the sense, what did you
> ad, other then negativity for no reason... You
> have been attacking alot of people around here,
> becasue of your man crush for Tannehill... A&O, if
> this is how you wanna respond or come at me.....
> F*ck off


And A & O, unless you can explain how I am making up things lately, add me to Crowder's list.

I told you on the one thing about whether you did NOT want to move up for Tannehill, I had you confused with berk and took you off the list.

Now you come back and insult me again even after that.

Insult you? Come on, bud. I meant nothing harmful about it.



I know what, this is the most tense I have ever seen this fan base. A week out from this draft, our fan base is on edge. It is showing by the clear aggrivation on this board.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Yeah, after I explained my mistake you STILL say I am making things up lately.

Again, I meant nothing by it and if I insulted you, then I'm sorry.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

All right.

Dan Marino was a great passer, NOT a great QB. He could throw a football through the eye of a needle with velocity, but he didn't call his own plays(except a very special few), like the great QB's of old did. To me, however his biggest failing was in the running game-we didn't have much of one while he was here. I've been told it was because we didn't have any talent at the position (the entire sixteen years he was here?), but I don't think that that was the problem. Dan was the WORST ball handler I have ever seen, his "fake"s didn't fool anybody. He was bad at it because he didn't care to be good at it. He has said that he wanted to throw the ball on every down, and while he certainly didn't render the running game impotent on purpose, he obviously didn't muster much enthusiasm for it, hence a low priority on ball handling. He never gave the running game much help. After watching the slight-of-hand wizardry of Ron Jaworski and Steve DeBerg, Marino's ball handling was mediocre at best. Do not misconstrue this post to mean I didn't admire Dan's passing proficiency, I just think he is the offensive equivalent of Deion Sanders - brilliantly talented in one phase of his craft, mediocre or worse in other phases.

Rick

Dude, you are epicly wrong. Sorry man. That is wrong.

You have your opinion, I have mine.

You say Marino is not a great QB. I say he is one of the greatest.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

More critical to the failure of the Dolphins to succeed in the later part of Dan's career than the absence of a good running game was the absence of a defense of matching caliber.

I remember that SuperBowl against the 49ers at Stanford stadium. I was sitting next to 49ers fans. My best buddy and I had to sit in separated seats because we had to buy what scalped tickets we could.

When Dan moved the team down the field on the first series, the guy next to me locked eyes and shook his head like "wow! I've never seen anything like this in my life."

Keep in mind the opposing QB was Joe Montana.

They just went ahead and outscored us.

Same thing happened in one of the two games that spoiled our perfect season. Dan Fouts and the Chargers simply outscored us. We lost to the Patriots, I believe, who were wild cards and beat us in the playoffs.

The same year, we beat the Bears in the regular season and although they won the SuperBowl, we stopped their perfect season.

But again, the Bears did not have a hell of an offense but had a hell of a defense.

Therefore, Dan Marino beats one of the best defenses in NFL history but at the same time, succumbs to Dan Fouts and one of the best Offenses in NFL history.

Again proving that it was really the aging of our defense, moreso than the lack of a running game that impeded Marino.

Think about it. With someone moving the ball and scoring like Marino, what do you need a running game for? The only possible thing is when you need to SLOW DOWN THE GAME TOWARD THE END AND RUN OUT THE CLOCK. I do remember that happening a few times but the reality is that if we had a decent defense, even that would not have been necessary.

The wierd thing is that our defense fell apart FAST after Marino arrived because one of the things that led David Woodley and Woodstrock to the SuperBowl at the Rose Bowl only a year or two earlier was the defense of Kim Bokamper and company who were called the "Killer Bees."

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Marino was a great passer, NOT a great QB. He
> could throw a football through the eye of a needle
> with velocity, but he didn't call his own
> plays(except a very special few), like the great
> QB's of old did.

Marino was not allowed to start at QB until he could call all his own plays. It was part of Shula grooming him. But, that was at the end of the era when QBs called their own plays. When Gary Stevens assumed playcalling duties, Marino still called all the third down plays, and was free to audible on any play, which he frequently did.

Teams new that Marino was going to throw all the time. Every team we faced knew they had to sell out to stop Marino. And yes, his ball fakes were lame. And even with all that working against him, they couldn't stop him. Heck, Marino used to taunt his own defense in practice, yelling out which play they were going to run, and they still couldn't do anything about it.

Dan Marino is arguably the single MOST DOMINANT offensive weapon in the history of the NFL. Get the facts right. Dan carried a crappy team and a HC way past his prime for 10+ years. Marino was a SYSTEM of football all by himself!

It’s ignorant, disrespectful, and treasonous as a “Dolphin Fan” to not admit the simple fact Marino was NEVER given the basic compliment in his Miami career to win multiple championships, including a decent running game, a legit defense and WR’s taller than cherubs. I mean the best WR he ever had was Irv when he was in his mid 30’s or whatever. Get freaking real!

For my money, Dan Marino is simply the greatest QB / offensive talent to ever play (and consistently dominate) in the NFL. If he was a contemporary player, his “real value” would transcend the team’s entire salary cap.

End of story. Marino was the GLORY!

BNF.

Dan's the best I've ever seen...and I've seen them ALL since 1970 when I started watching football.

Too bad you never saw Namath's first couple of seasons, before the injuries caught up to him. He was a brilliant passer in a run-oriented league. He isn't the greatest QB in league history-but on par as a passer with Marino.

Rick

Dan Marino was incredible, and to suggest he wasn't a great QB is just silly.

Dan had sooo many leadership intangibles beyond his great arm, focus, intensity, inspiration.

The one thing I'll never understand about Shula is why he kept that idiot Ollivadotti as a defensive coordinator.

Yes the King of the prevent defense (worst strategy of all time)

Ollivadotti was a puke of an excuse, and after having such a strong defense with the killer Bees / no name defense, I can only attribute it to having loist defensive teachers / coaches.

Dan deserved much better. Marino frequentoly audibled, and to suggest he did not have play selection just doesn't reflect what was going on at the time.


Despite an abysmal defense, Dan made Miami relevant and scared the crap pout of anyone they played includingt the butt whipping he put on the 1985 bears!!!

Believe what you want, you'll never change my mind on this point, as I suspect I'll never change yours, but I can back up the statement that Dan Marino was a great passer, not a great QB. Griese was a better QB-just nowhere near as good a passer.

Rick

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All players need help to be great. It is a team
> game.


Yes, Only reason Elway got 2 Rings is because they found a running back. Without Terrell Davis, Elway joins Dan as one of the Ringless HOFers.

Let's not forget the Dan reportedly did all of this while stoned off his ass ROFLMAO.

I read that story somewhere and couldn't believe it.

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Too bad you never saw Namath's first couple of
> seasons, before the injuries caught up to him. He
> was a brilliant passer in a run-oriented league.
> He isn't the greatest QB in league history-but on
> par as a passer with Marino.

Jet fan? Namath was on-par with Marino? Are you kidding me?

Absolutely. I was a fourteen year old Eagles fan. and I had never seen passing like that in the NFL. I hate the Jets, as you should know, Victor.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2012 09:15PM by dolphan4545.