nor am I simply a contrarian but.....don't let this post shock you.

It is true that I have criticized Ross, Ireland, Sparano when he was here as being idiots and incompetents.

However, being realistic....what has happened in the last few days cannot be definitively laid at their door.

Some posts here act as if all Ross and Ireland had to do was grab Peyton Manning, grab Matt Flynn if they wanted to.

The feeling seemed to be that if they wanted Peyton or Flynn they could have gotten them and if they did not, that result was either because they 1) didn't want them or 2) misplayed or screwed up the attempt to get them or 3) because the team so sucks that this is why these guys did not come here.

But what happened in this free agency was that what we were dealing with was not a simple portrait but a complex mosaic.

Not only are a million of factors going on but the various factors are affecting each other.

For example, when Peyton steps out and says he wants to play another year, even he is his heart for a mini-instant wondered "Will anyone want me?"

When the answer came back early and clearly YES, then that set up a situation where he had to make a decision.

Peyton being in the water was like blood in the water and when at the same time, Flynn's available happened at the same moment in history, coupled by his only two games being successful, the Flynn phenomena took on a dynamic of its own making him the clear second choice in free agency when perhaps he should not even have been.

That started a gold rush toward him. Like Peyton, Flynn is going to look out after his OWN interests and following his old coach was not as high a priority as people thought.

It was a once and a life-time payday for Flynn and he can't be blamed for taking it.

The fact (as one poster put it) that Philbin didn't go "all out" to get him may be a better guarantee that the questions of Flynn's true worth versus his worth in a market driven mad by the Peyton Manning furor may have been resolved in our favor by us NOT getting him.

Now some posters are disappointed that we may not get Alex Smith but he will probably make the 49ers pay dearly for flirting with Manning and the 49ers have no choice but to. I'll bet Alex's new contract will make the 49ers pay him until doomsday regardless of how crappy he plays.

So we sign David Gerard (if reports can be believed). Let's suppose that the whole Peyton-Flynn-Smith thing had not come to pass.

Let's also suppose, as is true, that we had no chance to get Luck or RGIII.

Then drafting Tannehill at 8 is a huge risk, even if he does fall that low. A much smarter move might be to go get another need stud there and try to, by hook or crook, get Weeden.

Long story summation, rather than Ross and Ireland being seen as pulling the strings (but pulling the wrong strings), it is probably more the case that they are going where events beyond their control (or beyond anybody's control) are taking them.

In short, the matter is not so simple as that if Ross and Ireland had wanted Peyton and/or Flynn, they would have gotten them and that either they were too stupid or too disinterested in them to get them.

BTW, in the interests of full disclosure, I voted RGIII number 1, Flynn number 2, and Peyton number 3 in the rank your preference poll.

Yes, I agree that Jeff Ireland is a "complex mosaic", really the only thing that the majority of the NFL community can figure out about the guy is that he's an as$hole. (as per the NFL Channel).

"I think Jeff Ireland has a big part to do with it," said Porter, who spent three seasons with the Dolphins from 2007-09. "I don't think when you come in being recruited by him you really believe things coming out of his mouth. I think he's a guy that's not trustworthy. He really doesn't hold up to what a GM's supposed to be."

He may have screwed up everything from way back, as I have long argued, but I can't say you can lay the blame for Peyton and Flynn at his doorstep.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He may have screwed up everything from way back,
> as I have long argued, but I can't say you can lay
> the blame for Peyton and Flynn at his doorstep.

The General Manager is really HR (Human Resources), the people person, the face of the organization. Having As$hole on your resume is NOT a good thing....GET IT.

Proof positive:

#1 Mannning didn't even want to meet with management in Miami, EVEN though he has a condo there. The WAS no woeing of Manning, no red carpet, no tour, no workouts, etc....why??? Because we could not get past step number one, which is HR...the same in any company, because the HR MANAGER IS AN AS$HOLE....get it??


#2 @SI_PeterKing
Peter King Talked to Flynn. Said a big factor in Sea over Mia was vibe in the building in Seattle: "The coaches, the staff--they were fantastic.'' AGAIN why??? Because we could not get past step number one, which is HR...the same in any company, because the HR MANAGER IS AN AS$HOLE....get it now???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2012 12:17AM by chrisnnavarre.

Joey Porter's opinion makes me like Ireland more. Porter is a grade A d-bag, and if he doesn't like Ireland, then Ireland can't be so bad. Ask Cam Cameron, Tony Sparano, and Mike Tomlin what they think of Joey Porter.

On Manning. Say you are Peyton Manning. You know your career is now just 3 or so years left. You want to be in the best position to win a Super Bowl. Why would you pick to play in a division with a Rex Ryan defense (which Manning is just 1-2 against, and struggled mightily with) and Tom Brady and Bill Belichick? Just winning the division is a tough road to hoe. The Broncos play in the weakest division in the league, and they made the Super Bowl with a FB playing QB. It's a no brainer. Miami was never really in the race, and it's not on Ireland.

When the details of Flynn's contract were revealed, it was clear that Miami wasn't sold on him. That's right, the team with Philbin, who coached Flynn for 4 years, was not sold on him. That's all you need to know. And people should be glad Ireland didn't overpay for a guy his coach doesn't believe in.

AND Mat Moore ain't half bad. I've been saying it for months and nobody here wants to listen. I was at the last game and that Team was on. The Stadium was Electric like I have not seen it in a long time. Maybe it had a little to do with the JT retirement, but I really liked what I saw of Mat Moore. With that long off season and riding the bench , he was just getting comfortable.

chrisnnavarre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I agree that Jeff Ireland is a "complex
> mosaic", really the only thing that the majority
> of the NFL community can figure out about the guy
> is that he's an as$hole. (as per the NFL Channel).


They called him an a-hole on the air, on the NFL channel? wow.

In my opinion, part of what Porter says is true. I think Ireland is a pretty good drafter and about average when it comes to signing FA's. But, as GM, your job is bridge leadership between the day-to-day coaching staff concerned with the next game only and the owner who either wants long-term value or Super Bowl championships (or both). He's more than just the HR department, in my opinion...he's the guy who builds the team according to a vision while having a very integral part of developing the vision, as well.

As such, I think Ireland should take a look in the mirror and ask himself how his treatment of other humans impacts his performance and success. If he can honestly tell himself that it has no negative impact, then more power to him. However, if his treatment of others has kept him from being better than he has been, then he should change it. I don't think there's any defense for treating others with disrespect. If you're going to cut someone, it's part of the business. But there's a right way and a wrong way. C'mon Jeff...there's no excuse for giving less than your best for the team, and treating others badly is less than your best. All your stakeholders - fans included - deserve better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2012 05:10AM by tsstamper.

They had that Plane flying during that last game also. 'FIRE IRELEND". Then when Ross introduced JT, he was booed and I could see the look in his face, Ross wants so bad to be accepted. He can't be happy right now.

I am clearly no the Matt Moore bandwagon.

Here's the whole point, Folks, and this is particularly directed at ChrisNavarre.

If you were in the position of Peyton Manning or Matt Flynn, would you let your decision, your financial decision, one of the most important decision you make in your life, be controlled by WHAT VIBES YOU GET FROM THE MANAGEMENT OF THE TEAM?????

I think not. I think you are guided FIRST by what's good for your family and afterwards about the long term projection for success.

Now after you made your choice, you can talk PUBLICLY about vibes and feelings but do you know why you do that?

You do that because you don't want to say, "Hey, these guys offered me more money!"

Think about that! What will that say for your reputation and how you are regarded in the future?

From pee wee football ON UP, you talk the "love of the game" talk. You don't come out and say "The game means nothing. Money is what it is all about."

As I said in starting this post, it was not the case, AS MANY PEOPLE HERE ASSUMED, that Peyton or Flynn would come here if only we had WANTED THEM or if only we had PLAYED OUR CARDS RIGHT.

The decisions were not in our hands and by our hands I mean the hands of Ross/Ireland but the decisions were in the hands of circumstances beyond their control.

What the QBs said after they went elsewhere was just politics.

But it is the media and fan base frenzy over getting a quarterback, justifiably coupled with Ross/Ireland's past history for stupid decisions, that feeds that perception. .....And makes for easy writing for sports reporters (and that's how the sports reporters get to eat...by writing stories that seem to impart news).

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the whole point, Folks, and this is
> particularly directed at ChrisNavarre.
>
> If you were in the position of Peyton Manning or
> Matt Flynn, would you let your decision, your
> financial decision, one of the most important
> decision you make in your life, be controlled by
> WHAT VIBES YOU GET FROM THE MANAGEMENT OF THE
> TEAM?????
>
> I think not. I think you are guided FIRST by
> what's good for your family and afterwards about
> the long term projection for success.
>
> Now after you made your choice, you can talk
> PUBLICLY about vibes and feelings but do you know
> why you do that?
>
> You do that because you don't want to say, "Hey,
> these guys offered me more money!"
>
> Think about that! What will that say for your
> reputation and how you are regarded in the
> future?
>
> From pee wee football ON UP, you talk the "love of
> the game" talk. You don't come out and say "The
> game means nothing. Money is what it is all
> about."
>
> As I said in starting this post, it was not the
> case, AS MANY PEOPLE HERE ASSUMED, that Peyton or
> Flynn would come here if only we had WANTED THEM
> or if only we had PLAYED OUR CARDS RIGHT.
>
> The decisions were not in our hands and by our
> hands I mean the hands of Ross/Ireland but the
> decisions were in the hands of circumstances
> beyond their control.
>
> What the QBs said after they went elsewhere was
> just politics.
>
> But it is the media and fan base frenzy over
> getting a quarterback, justifiably coupled with
> Ross/Ireland's past history for stupid decisions,
> that feeds that perception. .....And makes for
> easy writing for sports reporters (and that's how
> the sports reporters get to eat...by writing
> stories that seem to impart news).

I disagree about Manning. He has plenty of money for 3 lifetimes i imagine and where ever he went he was going to be WELL compensated. I think he was looking for a team that 1.) Needs a QB and 2.) Has a decent chance to be successful in the next couple of years because that's likely all he has left. I think he felt Miami certainly met the first criteria but NOT the second.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the whole point, Folks, and this is
> particularly directed at ChrisNavarre.
>
> If you were in the position of Peyton Manning or
> Matt Flynn, would you let your decision, your
> financial decision, one of the most important
> decision you make in your life, be controlled by
> WHAT VIBES YOU GET FROM THE MANAGEMENT OF THE
> TEAM?????
>
> I think not. I think you are guided FIRST by
> what's good for your family and afterwards about
> the long term projection for success.
>
> Now after you made your choice, you can talk
> PUBLICLY about vibes and feelings but do you know
> why you do that?
>
> You do that because you don't want to say, "Hey,
> these guys offered me more money!"
>
> Think about that! What will that say for your
> reputation and how you are regarded in the
> future?
>
> From pee wee football ON UP, you talk the "love of
> the game" talk. You don't come out and say "The
> game means nothing. Money is what it is all
> about."
>
> As I said in starting this post, it was not the
> case, AS MANY PEOPLE HERE ASSUMED, that Peyton or
> Flynn would come here if only we had WANTED THEM
> or if only we had PLAYED OUR CARDS RIGHT.
>
> The decisions were not in our hands and by our
> hands I mean the hands of Ross/Ireland but the
> decisions were in the hands of circumstances
> beyond their control.
>
> What the QBs said after they went elsewhere was
> just politics.
>
> But it is the media and fan base frenzy over
> getting a quarterback, justifiably coupled with
> Ross/Ireland's past history for stupid decisions,
> that feeds that perception. .....And makes for
> easy writing for sports reporters (and that's how
> the sports reporters get to eat...by writing
> stories that seem to impart news).

Look buddy, are you telling me that Jeff Ireland didn't know that for what ever reasons, the fans would not be pleased at not landing either QB option 1 or QB option 2? YES he knew, and what does he do to make the situation even worse, he releases Bell and hires a scrub from Jacksonville for Moore to compete with, just gas on the fire. He not only has no respect for his players he has no respect for the fans.

Just as government is responsible to the tax payers, football team managers and owners are responsible to their fans. That's where the revenue comes from.

But he made those moves, Chris, after Peyton and Flynn had signed elsewhere.

Maybe you could argue the Marshall trade but not Yremiah being cut or signing Garrard.

What do you think he did? Say to Peyton and Matt Flynn, "Hey I don't give a damn what you guys decide cuz I got my David Garrard coming in."

LOL.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I disagree about Manning. He has plenty of
> money
> > for 3 lifetimes i imagine and where ever he
> went
> > he was going to be WELL compensated. I think
> he
> > was looking for a team that 1.) Needs a QB and
> 2.)
> > Has a decent chance to be successful in the
> next
> > couple of years because that's likely all he
> has
> > left. I think he felt Miami certainly met the
> > first criteria but NOT the second.
>
> RESPONSE: And to sum up what you are saying, you
> agree with me that the decision was totally in the
> hands of Peyton and that it was made for reasons
> OTHER than a) Ross/Ireland didn't want him or show
> enough respect or b) Ross/Ireland bungled the
> attempt to get him.
>
> Whether for money or not (which I had mainly
> applying to Flynn), the game was not ours to lose,
> as many have premised their anger at Ross/Ireland
> upon.

I think Ross and Ireland are MOSTLY to blame for the fact that this team doesn't have much of a chance to be successful in the next year or two. THAT imo made Manning fairly disinterested in us from the get go.

Yes. If anything their past mistakes molded a situation where Peyton may not have wanted to come here.

But it was nothing that they did (or could have done) in the PRESENT negotiations to dictate (or screw up the chance) a choice that belonged to Peyton and Peyton alone.

Great points on Manning.

The Broncos won their division with an 8-8 record. That was with Kyle Orton stinking the joint, Tim Tebow struggling and then getting lucky.

They are tremendously improved with the addition of Manning, and they still have the draft power to put some pieces in place.

We would need to add a speedy WR, fix the OL, replace Jason Taylor, find a MLB....and then play the Pats, Jets, and the Mario Williams enhanced Bills twice a year. Manning would get killed.

I have no problem with Matt Moore being the starter...as long as we also draft a Qb to groom.

Matt Moore did some things I haven't seen a Dolphins QB do in years. But the great ones do it in year 2 or 3...Moore has earned a starting spot and lost it before...so I wouldn't bet the farm on him. But, I will take a chance on him.


Start Moore and draft Tannehill or Weeden. Groom them.

Garrard is 34...even if he beats out Moore as the starter for this season...he is no long term answer. We need to draft a 1st or ...dare I say it...a 2nd round QB that can sit on the bench in his rookie year and learn...and then earn his shot.

If Moore breaks out...great..then we have depth, trade bait ...insurance ...but we need a young QB that doesn't have us giving picks to an opponent.