There's a reason this old canard is still around, its true very often. Selling your football soul for a quarterback that every -EVERY- statement about how much he will help your team is prefaced with a phrase that begins with the word "IF" is at least worth more thought than the pundits seem to be putting into this. Their concentrated media blitz on the subject is pushing even some lukewarm advocates into forgetting their doubts and accepting this move as "inevitable". So, I repeat: Be careful what you wish for.

Rick

Yep. If we get him, everybody will be acting like they approved of this.

People will see just how great Peyton still is next season, whether it's with us or someone else.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

This is not Daunte Culpepper we are talking about. This is one of the top 5 QBs in NFL history. Yes, his health is a concern. But the potential payoff is huge!

First, people said his neck would never heal. Wrong.

Then, people said his arm was a noodle. Wrong.

Now, people say that, despite the fact that he's very close to being his old self, he will never get there. Are you really willing to still bet against the guy?

But even if Peyton's arm strength only tops out at 85% of what it was, he has never been a gunslinger. Ever. Ever, ever, ever. He doesn't even really throw a tight spiral most of the time. Peyton Manning is a HOF QB because he anticipates better than anyone in history. His timing is impeccable. And he has the intelligence to get the offense into the correct play 100% of the time.

This isn't Favre we're talking about. Peyton doesn't force the ball into tiny windows. He creates huge windows instead.

No doubt the upside with Manning is a legit Lombardi trophy run.

The downside is falling back to plan B with Matt Moore and moving forward from there.

I’d say the up is definitely in the superior position. Tho we cannot forecast the “missing out on Flynn” factor in this. And that could come back to haunt us.

if we sign payton and he never returns to form, we are out nothing except some cap space. He costs no draft picks. Worth the gamble, but if we do sign him, I want to take a QB in the draft to be the future

Peyton was due 28 million dollars. The Colts are in full rebuild mode. They aren't in a great cap situation. Peyton's arm is recovering but not confirmed to be 100%. These are all reasons why the Colts let him go. Did I mention that Andrew Luck is available as well?

And no way do we need to spend a 1st or 2nd rounder when we have a presumably healthy Peyton Manning on the roster. He will be here three years. We have time to draft a QB next draft or the one after that. Is Wheedon or some other QB in round 2 so good that we can't possibly pass them up? I don't see it. Now a guy in the rounds 4 or 5, when it's hit and miss anyways, I would be fine snagging a guy that fits Philbin's specs.

1423, that's the point. We are in rebuild mode if not "full rebuild" mode ourselves. Also his arm not being 100% is why they let him go.

As far as Andrew Luck is concerned. If Peyton had another 3 solid good years performing at his same Hall of Fame level as before, would they draft Luck to sit on the bench for another three years with a clipboard in his hand.

Granted no one can know the future but that's the point. It was the combination of his health concern AND Andrew Luck that made the Colts go away from Peyton.

Take either one of those two away and Peyton is still there with the Colts.

Now, sit back and think what you have said.

What you have said is that the Colts are not sure that Peyton will be the same ole Peyton he has been in the past.

Yep, I thought about it. Phins are not in rebuild mode. We are a fringe playoff team right now. And another pass rusher, RT, and superior QB play and we are a serious super bowl contentder. That is not rebuilding. That is called 3 pieces away from our Fins having realistic super bowl chances.

Colts are in full rebuild mode. They are old at the skill positions, their Oline is in shambles, and their D is below average. I'm not sure a completely healthy Peyton stays with the Colts. When you have Andrew Luck, you want him to play immediately. I'm not sure they pay 28 mil to Peyton just so he can take a crappy team to 8 wins and have Luck watch from the bench. I think they had to take Luck or keep Peyton and auction off the #1 pick to get help for Peyton.

No one is saying that Peyton isn't a risk. He is. But while there is no guarantee that Peyton will be the same, there is also no guarantee that he won't be the same. His arm strength is recovering on schedule and reports are positive. And, the upside is through the roof.

We'll have to disagree but when you have one injured all pro (Long) OT, really lacking another at least grade A at the other tackle, one good and potentially great center, so-so guards, tight ends that if they were blended into one would be great but individually are just good, a Wide receiver Marshall who drops touchdown passes in the endzone, a great outside back but no really good inside backs, a great kicking game, but only one good pass rusher, good linebacking a secondary that well despite its own opinion of itself is not that good, I'd say that you have holes to fill and are rebuilding if not at least in need of work being done.

I agree to disagree. I'll just say one more thing on the topic. You don't need to be great or even good at every single position. You need to great players at key positions, lots of good players, and you can have a few average players.

Look at the Giants roster. Their Oline is average. Their linebackers are average. Their RB's are above average when healthy. Their QB is great. Their WR are great. Their TE's are average at best. Their Dline is great. Their secondary is good, maybe very good.

You don't need to be loaded to win the SB. The Pack were loaded last year and didn't win. If you have the right combination of great, good, and an average players, you have a chance to win in every game you play. Most teams that win the SB aren't loaded. They have their strengths, weaknesses, and stuff they just are average at.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that with this particular injury, once its healed, there is no increased risk of further injury?

He's not going to be Trent Green out there; one hit away from the end of his career. Peyton Manning has no greater chance of a neck injury than any other QB in the league. It. Is. Healed. So stop acting like he's going to get touched once, and then drop like a bag of dirt.

The ONLY concern at this point is nerve regeneration, but there is fantastic evidence to suggest that once the nerve begins to regenerate, which it has, it is incredibly likely that he will regain full strength, and even possibly more. If you think he's too old, fine. But stop spewing nonsense about Manning being injury prone.

There is one reason, and one reason alone that Indy cut Peyton, and his name is Andrew Luck.

If the Colts were drafting at the 10th position or so instead of where they are, does anyone really think that they'd let Peyton go?

No freaking way.

Krunk Fu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it so hard for people to understand that
> with this particular injury, once its healed,
> there is no increased risk of further injury?

For me it is (I should say..."has been" or "was," as I'm coming around) a mental block and just an overall fear of a devastating injury.

When Zack Thomas continued playing after leaving the Phins I was really, really scared that he'd get more concussions and really mess himself up for life.

But now, I'm understanding it better. I guess it goes back to the Zack thing....with all the press about how concussions can compound themselves, etc. I was thinking that all injuries near the brain and upper spinal cord had the same tendency. I'm glad to learn that is not the case.

Krunk Fu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is it so hard for people to understand that
> with this particular injury, once its healed,
> there is no increased risk of further injury?

Because it doesn't fit their analysis of the situation.

So they use it to prop up their arguments by suggesting he's brittle or o hit away from being a corpse.




>
> He's not going to be Trent Green out there; one
> hit away from the end of his career. Peyton
> Manning has no greater chance of a neck injury
> than any other QB in the league. It. Is. Healed.
> So stop acting like he's going to get touched
> once, and then drop like a bag of dirt.
>
> The ONLY concern at this point is nerve
> regeneration, but there is fantastic evidence to
> suggest that once the nerve begins to regenerate,
> which it has, it is incredibly likely that he will
> regain full strength, and even possibly more. If
> you think he's too old, fine. But stop spewing
> nonsense about Manning being injury prone.

Exactly. According to EVERY doctor I've seen interviewed on TV or read quoted in some article, the neck is NOT an issue.

As for the arm strength...it will either be there or it won't.

If Manning's camp was serious about a team friendly contract that doesn't take too much up front in order to PROVE the arm strength has returned then there is little to no risk for a team to sign him.


>
> There is one reason, and one reason alone that
> Indy cut Peyton, and his name is Andrew Luck.

I think it goes beyond that. I think Luck plays a part, but I think the money is the key factor. Bringing Manning back would cripple that franchise financially. He'd get 30 mill a year for the next 2-3 years. That's absurd. The injury gives them the cover they need to bow out, Luck makes it an easier sell to the fan base, but the money is the driving force behind the decision.

If Manning's option were for $10 mill a year for the next two or three years he'd still be a colt.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the Colts were drafting at the 10th position or
> so instead of where they are, does anyone really
> think that they'd let Peyton go?
>
> No freaking way.


Exactly. And if we had the #1 pick, the right thing would be to take Luck, and no one would be advocating signing Manning. It is a combination of factors.

For me it has nothing to do with the neck, nada.
It has to do with the arm and the nerve damage in a 36 year old body.
Some of you seem to think that hard work and dedication will restore Peyton to past glory. Some of you think that what he might lose in zip will be more than made up for with touch and accuracy. Doesn't it occur to you that nerve damage affects zip AND accuracy AND touch.
There is a fine line between the Good QBs and the Great QBs in the NFL and that a Peyton at 90 percent might well be way below that line.
Two seasons ago Peyton missed the pre-season when his knee needed surgury, then came the four consecutive game stretch with 13 interceptiopns. None of you would tolerate that kind of performance from one of our own QBs but Peyton gets a pass. No, I think the decline in his physical ability started a while back and no amount of rehab, therapy or, rosey write-ups from reporters is going to overcome that.
The Peyton of a few years ago is as relevant to the upcoming season as the Marino of 15 years ago.

Chyren, you know we're boys, but some of your posts are WAY too long and rambling to follow, your point gets lost at times trying to follow along.

Now go back and look at Mark's post and see whether my response was more lengthy than his post.

They are roughly the same length but yours is less coherent.

Really? Odd because most of mine are one-liners. Could the fact that you agree with him have anything to do with that coherency comment of yours?


Nahhhh! No one would ever insult the coherency of a position that they didn't agree with.

ChyrenB, I don't post very often, but I just so strongly disagree with your position that I have to. Signing Manning does not hurt the Phins in any way. They still keep their draft picks, which they can use on another QB this year, or next year, or the year after, to learn under Manning, they still have Moore as a more than capable backup in the unlikely chance that Manning gets hurt again, and if Manning is healthy, they become an instant contender. There is no downside.

If Manning is not healthy, how are we "devastated for the next 10 years?" It won't even have any impact for 2013. Manning is going to get an incentive laden deal, with an out clause for 2013 because of the health concerns. There is no risk beyond 1 year.

It is ludicrous to think that Matt Flynn is going to let us dominate the Patriots for the next 12 years. The guy has made 2 career starts. He started 1 season in college. He was deemed lacking in talent enough to be a 7th rd pick. Maybe he turns out to be good. But, good doesn't dominate Tom Brady and the Patriots. Put together a list of all the guys who started 1 year in college, got drafted after the 5th round, and amounted to a special QB in the NFL. The odds are dramatically against Flynn. Now, if they sign Flynn, and they are wrong about his ceiling, then the team is likely devastated for 3-4 years.

Well Mark. To tell the truth I am an RGIII man more than a Flynn man but a Flynn Man more than a Peyton man.

My faith in Flynn is based on the fact that if Philbin signs him, there is a minimal guarantee there.

I do not believe that there is any guarantee whatsoever on Manning's health or his susceptibility to injury at his age.

Now, by the next 10 years, I'm thinking that the chance to get an RGIII (or a Luck for that matter) may not come again in a decade.

But let's suppose we figure, "Hell, let's just get Barkley next year."

Barkley could get injured. If we sign Peyton and he goes down with injury there will be people on the board looking at that long list of QBs that Ken posted and saying, "Instead of going for it in the draft, we again settled for someone else's cast-off."

Even if this cast-off will be in the Hall of Fame one day.