THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well tell me the answer when Cleveland signs
> him
>
>
> You seem to believe that Cleveland is the favorite
> for Flynn...not saying you are wrong....just that
> I don't understand why you think that is the
> case.
>
> We have his system...his former OC and will hand
> him just as big a check as Holmgren.
>
> Other than natural pessimism after missing on RG3
> and Manning...what makes you think they are more
> attractive an option than us to the point where we
> are "screwed"??
>
> If you want to wait until later to explain that
> ...ok...I guess.


It's well known that Flynn is Cleveland's #1 priority, and has been all along. According to Pat Kirwan, the offense in Cleveland is the same that McCarthy runs in Green Bay, same terminology and everything. He thinks Flynn can be plugged into the Cleveland offense as easily as he could in Miami. The Brows are $30M under the salary cap, compared to just $15M for Miami. If it becomes a bidding war, Cleveland can easily offer him a contract we can't match. For example, Cleveland can sign him toa 5 year, $50M contract, and still have $20M to sign their draft picks and add other free agent pieces. If we matched that, we'd be tapped out, and would have to start restructuring deals and cutting players to make any other additions in free agency.

That's why we should be talking them both at the same time...why we aren't is mystifingly stupid on our part. I understand that we want give the impression of being all in to get our #1 choice but to leave open gaps when nothing is guaranteed is still stupid.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well tell me the answer when Cleveland signs
> him
>
>
> You seem to believe that Cleveland is the favorite
> for Flynn...not saying you are wrong....just that
> I don't understand why you think that is the
> case.
>
> We have his system...his former OC and will hand
> him just as big a check as Holmgren.
>
> Other than natural pessimism after missing on RG3
> and Manning...what makes you think they are more
> attractive an option than us to the point where we
> are "screwed"??
>
> If you want to wait until later to explain that
> ...ok...I guess.

Haven't you learned by now? The man knows. I don't know HOW the man knows but the man knows.

He's always right and tells us things before they are publicly announced. Only you would argue with past success. A & O's got the inside scoop. Maybe from a drone....ha, ha.,

oooohhh, but you'll never see this.

---------------------------------



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2012 08:58AM by ChyrenB.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's why we should be talking them both at the
> same time...why we aren't is mystifingly stupid on
> our part. I understand that we want give the
> impression of being all in to get our #1 choice
> but to leave open gaps when nothing is guaranteed
> is still stupid.


We r not allowed to talk to him till free agency opens next Tuesday!!

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Well tell me the answer when Cleveland signs
> > him
> >
> >
> > You seem to believe that Cleveland is the
> favorite
> > for Flynn...not saying you are wrong....just
> that
> > I don't understand why you think that is the
> > case.
> >
> > We have his system...his former OC and will
> hand
> > him just as big a check as Holmgren.
> >
> > Other than natural pessimism after missing on
> RG3
> > and Manning...what makes you think they are
> more
> > attractive an option than us to the point where
> we
> > are "screwed"??
> >
> > If you want to wait until later to explain that
> > ...ok...I guess.
>
>
> It's well known that Flynn is Cleveland's #1
> priority, and has been all along. According to Pat
> Kirwan, the offense in Cleveland is the same that
> McCarthy runs in Green Bay, same terminology and
> everything. He thinks Flynn can be plugged into
> the Cleveland offense as easily as he could in
> Miami. The Brows are $30M under the salary cap,
> compared to just $15M for Miami. If it becomes a
> bidding war, Cleveland can easily offer him a
> contract we can't match. For example, Cleveland
> can sign him toa 5 year, $50M contract, and still
> have $20M to sign their draft picks and add other
> free agent pieces. If we matched that, we'd be
> tapped out, and would have to start restructuring
> deals and cutting players to make any other
> additions in free agency.

If Flynn is their #1 priority then why did they make an offer to the Rams last night?

But that's besides the point.

If they want to pay more for him than us so be it. But we both know its not the length of the contract or the overall value that matters...its the guaranteed money.

If they want to make him one of the highest paid QB's in the NFL...god bless 'em...I think its a bad move.


I'd rather have Wheedon at this point anyway so I'm hoping they offer him $15m a year.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's why we should be talking them both at the
> same time...why we aren't is mystifingly stupid on
> our part. I understand that we want give the
> impression of being all in to get our #1 choice
> but to leave open gaps when nothing is guaranteed
> is still stupid.


We can't be talking to Flynn yet. HE'S NOT A FREE AGENT...yet.

What would be "mystifingly stupid" would be to open ourselves up to tampering charges and the possible loss of draft picks because we started negotiating with Flynn before he was actually on the market.

I think it is possible that we’re “communicating” with Flynn while “exploring things” with Manning. I mean we have the stated philosophy of (a) flipping over rocks and (b) picking up acorns and last I checked Manning qualifies on both fronts.

Of course it would be smart of our side to keep all options in play and I’m betting (with flippers crossed) that Philbin & Co. are pretty high IQ and have talked this stuff through and through.

High IQ. Through and through!

You bet. It’s just really good Baby T ain’t making the calls
to Dominos in Davie anymore.

BNF. And psyched!

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's why we should be talking them both at
> the
> > same time...why we aren't is mystifingly stupid
> on
> > our part. I understand that we want give the
> > impression of being all in to get our #1 choice
> > but to leave open gaps when nothing is
> guaranteed
> > is still stupid.
>
>
> We can't be talking to Flynn yet. HE'S NOT A FREE
> AGENT...yet.
>
> What would be "mystifingly stupid" would be to
> open ourselves up to tampering charges and the
> possible loss of draft picks because we started
> negotiating with Flynn before he was actually on
> the market


You crack me up

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ken Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > That's why we should be talking them both at
> > the
> > > same time...why we aren't is mystifingly
> stupid
> > on
> > > our part. I understand that we want give the
> > > impression of being all in to get our #1
> choice
> > > but to leave open gaps when nothing is
> > guaranteed
> > > is still stupid.
> >
> >
> > We can't be talking to Flynn yet. HE'S NOT A
> FREE
> > AGENT...yet.
> >
> > What would be "mystifingly stupid" would be to
> > open ourselves up to tampering charges and the
> > possible loss of draft picks because we started
> > negotiating with Flynn before he was actually
> on
> > the market
>
>
> You crack me up


Thanks!

I'll be here all week (month/year)...don't forget to tip your waitresses...

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is possible that we’re
> “communicating” with Flynn while “exploring
> things” with Manning.



It happens.

But we are under the media microscope with this whole QB hunt.

It would be extra difficult for us to keep that under wraps with the amount of eyes on us right now.

Its just not worth the risk.

But I'm sure Flynn and his agent know what our staff thinks of him and whether we are serious players for him once free agency starts.

Exactly.

I mean seriously Wilbur. We're not tweeting. But we can certainly find a number of channels to get info back and forth. It's not like Flynn and Philbin don't chat about geography including greener pastures and the commodities market including QB futures.

I mean really. Duh!

So you guy's think that no team breaks the rules especially when the stakes are as high as they are...I mean come on, the NFL can't possibly know if a team has contacted someone under the table. Just because you can't FORMALLY negotiate does not mean that you can't otherwise negotiate.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ken,
>
> Which is it then?
>
> Are you suggesting that we are/should be engaging
> in double super secret negotiations with Flynn or
> that you find it "mystifiingly stupid" that we
> aren't making our super secret negations public
> enough for you?

No, he's just looking at the track record of the STUPIDITY of the post-Robbe ownership, a stupidity which you BTW constantly defend, and is arguing that they are probably not, as is custom, even "in the game."

He's not saying he knows that. He's only saying that they are 9 times out of 10, not doing it. And the reason they are not doing it is not that they are honest, it's that they're just stupid.


>
> I mean, if its so common as to be expected that we
> are talking to Flynn early, then why are you so
> "mystified" we aren't making it know that we are
> doing something against the rules?

Because the Dolphin management is stupid.

>
> You can't have it BOTH ways. You can't argue its
> well known that secret negotiations take place
> early all the time AND consider our front office
> to be "mystifingly stupid" for not engaging in
> secret talks that happen all the time, and by
> definition you wouldn't know about because they
> are secret.

Yes, he can and I just showed you why.

>
> Or is it your point that super secret negotiations
> take place all the time that nobody ever knows
> about BUT we clearly aren't doing this (which
> makes Ireland "mystifingly stupid", since you
> haven't heard about them?

NOW'S BY GEORGE, YOU'VE GOT IT!!!! Stupidity is the reason and who says that Ken reaches that conclusion because he's never "heard" about the negotiations. Like me, he just assumes because of the brain-deadness of this organization, they haven't.


>
>Nice try though

Too bad I can't congratulate you on being able to figure out because you never did. And please remember......

--------------------------



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2012 11:50AM by ChyrenB.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So you guy's think that no team breaks the
> rules
> > especially when the stakes are as high as they
> > are...I mean come on, the NFL can't possibly
> know
> > if a team has contacted someone under the
> table.
> > Just because you can't FORMALLY negotiate does
> not
> > mean that you can't otherwise negotiate.
>
>
> Ken,
>
> Which is it then?
>
> Are you suggesting that we are/should be engaging
> in double super secret negotiations with Flynn or
> that you find it "mystifiingly stupid" that we
> aren't making our super secret negations public
> enough for you?
>
> I mean, if its so common as to be expected that we
> are talking to Flynn early, then why are you so
> "mystified" we aren't making it know that we are
> doing something against the rules?
>
> You can't have it BOTH ways. You can't argue its
> well known that secret negotiations take place
> early all the time AND consider our front office
> to be "mystifingly stupid" for not engaging in
> secret talks that happen all the time, and by
> definition you wouldn't know about because they
> are secret.
>
> Or is it your point that super secret negotiations
> take place all the time that nobody ever knows
> about BUT we clearly aren't doing this (which
> makes Ireland "mystifingly stupid", since you
> haven't heard about them?
>
> Nice try though...

Now you're cracking me up!

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So you guy's think that no team breaks the
> rules
> > especially when the stakes are as high as they
> > are...I mean come on, the NFL can't possibly
> know
> > if a team has contacted someone under the
> table.
> > Just because you can't FORMALLY negotiate does
> not
> > mean that you can't otherwise negotiate.
>
>
> Ken,
>
> Which is it then?
>
> Are you suggesting that we are/should be engaging
> in double super secret negotiations with Flynn or
> that you find it "mystifiingly stupid" that we
> aren't making our super secret negations public
> enough for you?

RE: It'd mystifyingly stupid that the team has not at least said that they are/will be interested in Flynn as soon as they can be. That would at least let everyone know that they are not leaving any stones un-turned and would build drama for the fans which would increase ticket sales, and draft viewing among other things. And yes we should be talking to Flynn under the table if for no other reason than to let him know he's wanted so he may want to wait on signing any good looking deals immediately after F/A starts. Those negotiations couldn't by rule be made public at all so that point is moot.
>
> I mean, if its so common as to be expected that we
> are talking to Flynn early, then why are you so
> "mystified" we aren't making it know that we are
> doing something against the rules?

RE: See above.
>
> You can't have it BOTH ways. You can't argue its
> well known that secret negotiations take place
> early all the time AND consider our front office
> to be "mystifingly stupid" for not engaging in
> secret talks that happen all the time, and by
> definition you wouldn't know about because they
> are secret.

RE: I never said that cheating was well known. I also bever said the front office was mystifingly stupid either.
>
> Or is it your point that super secret negotiations
> take place all the time that nobody ever knows
> about BUT we clearly aren't doing this (which
> makes Ireland "mystifingly stupid" ), since you
> haven't heard about them?
>
> Nice try though...

RE: Stop reading into what's said and just read the words.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > RE: It'd mystifyingly stupid that the team has
> not
> > at least said that they are/will be interested
> in
> > Flynn as soon as they can be.
>
> Ken,
>
> We can't PUBLICLY comment on Flynn until he's a
> free agent. Its called tampering. I find it
> mysifyingly stupid that you cannot grasp this
> concept.

RE: Simply saying that we are interested in Flynn once he comes available is not tampering but it shows him that we have intent...what we can't do is PUBLIClY contact or negotiate with him. There is a big difference here. What's mystifing here is that you can't see the difference.
>
> As the Pats learned and as the saints will
> learn...Goodell doesn't like it when you thumb
> your nose at his rules. He likes it even less
> when it becomes PUBLIC knowledge.

RE: There would be no nose thumbing to say you are interested if and when he's available...beyond that you only get in trouble if you get caught actually talking to him early...but there are many ways not to get caught if you did.
>
> In all seriousness...you are suggesting that a
> front office is mystifyingly stupid for failing to
> prove it is NOT incompetent by publicly flaunting
> the rules of Free Agency, and thereby putting
> draft picks at risk as punishment, for no other
> gain that to mollify a portion of the fanbase that
> already knows this stuff is discussed 'under the
> table".

RE: No, I never said the front office was mystifyingly stupid...you suggested that I did. We knew that they were interested in Manning before he was released because they said they were...no mention of Flynn at all. That makes it look like we are ONLY interested in Manning,
>
> I'm beginning to worry that you spend a lot of
> time with CB and that whatever dementia drives the
> voices in his head is contagious...

RE: LOL.
>
>
> > That would at least
> > let everyone know that they are not leaving any
> > stones un-turned and would build drama for the
> > fans which would increase ticket sales, and
> draft
> > viewing among other things.
>
> > And yes we should be
> > talking to Flynn under the table if for no
> other
> > reason than to let him know he's wanted so he
> may
> > want to wait on signing any good looking deals
> > immediately after F/A starts. Those
> negotiations
> > couldn't by rule be made public at all so that
> > point is moot.
> > >
>
> By rule...and by common sense. If you are going
> to cheat...you hardly want to be bragging about
> it...RIGHT?

RE: I'm not saying we should be bragging about it...simply stating publicly that you are interested if and when...is not tampering, nor bragging. But it gets the idea out there that you are open to options. What you do under the table, before or after that, is no one's concern...unless you get caught that is.
>
>
> This is where you lose me. You admit its against
> the rules. Fine, some rules are meant to be
> broken...I get that. Don't necessarily
> agree...but I get that point of view.

RE: If you are not cheating a little then you are not trying hard enough.
>
> Where you jump the shark is when you suggest that
> the way Ireland should prove to you that he's
> doing a good job is by doing something nobody else
> is doing: Talking publicly about flaunting the
> rules.

RE: Ireland does not have to prove anything to me. But he does to Flynn, Manning, or any other free agent player. Do you really think that players don't want to work for a guy that says he's interested in the top free agent players as soon as they become available? Again, I never suggested that they flaunt what they are doing. I can't understand why you have such difficulty in understanding a simple statement of intent, provided he is available at the start of free agency, is not in any way tampering.
>
>
>
>
> > > I mean, if its so common as to be expected
> that
> > we
> > > are talking to Flynn early, then why are you
> so
> > > "mystified" we aren't making it know that we
> > are
> > > doing something against the rules?
> >
> > RE: See above.
>
>
> I did. You are still making less than zero
> sense.

RE: Not really, I can't make it any clearer for you.
>
>
> > >
> > > You can't have it BOTH ways. You can't argue
> > its
> > > well known that secret negotiations take
> place
> > > early all the time AND consider our front
> > office
> > > to be "mystifingly stupid" for not engaging
> in
> > > secret talks that happen all the time, and by
> > > definition you wouldn't know about because
> they
> > > are secret.
> >
> > RE: I never said that cheating was well known.
> I
> > also bever said the front office was
> mystifingly
> > stupid either.
>
>
> Sure you did:
>
> "So you guy's think that no team breaks the rules
> especially when the stakes are as high as they
> are...I mean come on"

RE: Where are the words the front office is mystifyingly stupid or cheating is well known? They are not there because I didn't say them.
>
> and
>
> "That's why we should be talking them both at the
> same time...why we aren't is mystifingly stupid on
> our part."
>
>
>
>
> > >
> > > Or is it your point that super secret
> > negotiations
> > > take place all the time that nobody ever
> knows
> > > about BUT we clearly aren't doing this (which
> > > makes Ireland "mystifingly stupid" ), since
> you
> > > haven't heard about them?
> > >
> > > Nice try though...
> >
>
>
> > RE: Stop reading into what's said and just read
> > the words.
>
> Done that. Twice...just for you. It still didn't
> change what you wrote.
>
>

RE: Just for me...wow, thanks. Nor did it change what you mis-read.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trying to read the tea leaves…the fact we’re
> talking to Manning means he’s our #1 target
> because we can’t afford to “just explore
> things” with him and then turn our attention
> towards Flynn. No matter what are intent we’ll
> be viewed as missing out on Manning and
> “settling” for Flynn – who could then decide
> to go where he’s the #1 choice = Cleveland.
>
> So the mere fact that we’re sitting down with
> Peyton pretty much defines things IMO. And it
> doesn’t leave a lot of wiggle room on the
> backside.

-----------------------------------------------------

Manning is, and always has been, Ross' #1 objective. Ross wants Manning at all costs. Hopefully he won't get a (still) injured Manning, if Miami does end up signing him.

Flynn is Plan B. If Flynn's asking price gets outrageous, Miami will probably drop him. Flynn hasn't proven that he would be worth those big, big bucks. If he comes at a decent rate, then Miami would probably sign him, if....Philbin has a strong conviction of him. Thus far, no one is sure if he does or not.

If Miami loses out on both those options, I see Ireland going after Tannehill. After that, it will be in the 3rd round or later that Miami drafts another QB.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BigNastyFish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think it is possible that we’re
> > “communicating” with Flynn while
> “exploring
> > things” with Manning.
>
>
>
> It happens.
>
> But we are under the media microscope with this
> whole QB hunt.
>
> It would be extra difficult for us to keep that
> under wraps with the amount of eyes on us right
> now.
>
> Its just not worth the risk.
>
> But I'm sure Flynn and his agent know what our
> staff thinks of him and whether we are serious
> players for him once free agency starts.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Because of what happened with Harbaugh, you bet Ross is very aware of the media. He isn't going to screw up again. Besides, he has given the marching orders to Ireland and Ireland knows exactly what to do or not do. No mistakes here, guys!

Going to find out real soon if Peyton will be a Phin. He just left the Arizona complex after 6 hours.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Please please let Flynn go to Cleveland

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please please let Flynn go to Cleveland


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
If that happens, we are absolutely screwed.

I just spoke with Matt Miller, founder of New Era Scouting and lead writer for the Bleacher Report, he says Tannehill is one of the biggest risks if selected high. Says he has a low 2nd round grade on Tannehill.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Tannehill is high on a lot of boards as well. The difference in opinion on Tannehill leads me to believe it is boom or bust if you draft him.

converted WRs who played 1 season at QB in college don't fill me with a lot of confidence. Taking him at #8 (some may take him higher) would be a collossal reach borne only out of desperation