1) If Miami does or doesnt like Matt Flynn? IF we dont like Matt Flynn, Ireland and Philbin should show lots of interest, in order to drive up the intrigue of other teams... If other teams think we like Flynn, that will drive up his worth and percieved value. Hopefully getting one of the teams competiting to make a splash at QB this offseason to reach. The worst thing we could do if we dont like Flynn is show no interest... It will likely scare away his suitors... and drive his FA value down, so we should only do this if we actually want him....

2) If we dont want Manning, then we have to try and drop him in the lap of Washington or Cleveland, to elminate them from competition for the 2nd pick in the draft with Rams and keep him away from the Jets....

3) IF we dont like RG3, then we need to try and look like we are after the rams pick in order to drive up that price and force someone else to over pay, and take them off the pursuit of our true intention, whoever it may be...

So all that being said, my point is, the future is going to be telling... But not like you think it will... IF we want Manning or Flynn, we could know quick... ALthough we dont want to overpay these guys either, so alot of posturing is going to be happening from agents, players, and GM's..... Where we wind up is anyones guess.... I have absolutley no idea, what is gonna happen... and I dont plan on believing anyone until I see the deal signed...

Agreed. But also remember that other teams will be employing the same tactics so don't read too much into another team working out RGIII privately or supposed discussions between various GM's and player agents.

It is a good post and I hope everyone here will take note. Do not fill this board with overreactions, please.

We’ve outsmarted ourselves in the past – like not working Patty White out so not to tip our hand. I don’t think its rocket science and we just need to focus on US as opposed to playing draft maneuvering wizards or FA kingpins.

If Flynn is the guy we want then we definitely have the upper hand to get him. End of that story. And the same for Manning. Trading-up to the #2 spot in the draft is a psychotic move cost-wise and I seriously doubt Philbin and Ireland are that dumb.

Flynn makes the most sense contingent on the fact Philbin believes in the kid. If he does then that deal is in the bag IMO. And I don’t think Philbin is all tingly about Manning for a number of obvious reasons.

The 1st week of FA should tell all.

BNF.

I dont think Miami is willing to give Matt Flynn, a Kevin Kolb type of contract. He doesnt deserve that, unless he can create alot of demand for his services... The best way for Flynn to create interest and value in himself, if people think his ex OC, is all over signing him in his first job as HC, with a franchise that has struggled at that position for years... Flynn can not make all of the throws and has flaws, and does not have an arm like aaron rodgers.. But he does know the offense really well, and that will give him the leg up for sure... But he has only played in 2 games, with a team that won the superbowl one year, and won 15 games the other, 14 without him... So I am nervous about him to say the least...

As far Manning goes, there is alot of talk, that Philbin is likely not to want Manning because of a power struggle to install his own offense vs Peyton wanting to go with his own offense... Flynn and RG3 both solve the internal power struggle for control of the offense, that could be a problem for a first time head coach... Although, how could Philbin, not like the idea of having Peyton Mannings veteran knowledge and leadership to lean on...

As I said before I have no idea, how all "the cookies are gonna crumble" so many variables, and inside knowledge needed to make sense or a read on any of it....

Manning will be a free agent able to sign with any team as soon as the Colts cut him, which will be by March 8th. Flynn won't hit free agency until March 13th. Miami will want the Manning situation figured out before Flynn hits free agency. Released/cut players don't have to wait until 3/13 to sign with another team. Manning will be working out in front of Miami coaches as soon as he is cut and getting checked out by the medical staff. My guess is that it will be a complete full court press to get Manning signed before 3/13. Ross wants Manning. And if the reports today are true, that Manning is throwing the ball much better, Ross will get Manning. And Reggie Wayne will be signed by 5/15.

I get the thing about Philbin and Sherman being west coast offense guys, and Manning isn't. But, my opinion is this. If you can't figure out a way to make Manning successful in an offense, then you are not a good football coach.

Dolfanmark, i agree with you, all things considered and manning's health being cleared, I would think that makes the most sense... I agree also that Ross wants Manning and has told Ireland to go and get him... How could he not, Manning probably increases a declining season ticket sales by ten thousand heads....and guarantees no more blackout worries or money, and probably increases nationally televised games, sponsorship, advertising, everything across the board signifigantly.... Manning is the golden goose for him....

Nobody is going to buck the front of the house on this one, especially not Ireland over what Ross wants...lol....Ross's business needs it badly, and with what the Heat has done, with tickets sales from Lebron, he needs a superstar like Manning and knows what Superstars in miami do for ticket sales and press.....

I'll be honest guys. if Manning is healthy, that is the only way to go. If he remains healthy, that gives Miami 3 good years (and probably playoffs all three years). Given that....

If our brain trust believes in Tannehill, that will be Miami's first pick. Why not? He can learn from Peyton and be ready to go when the time comes. Now, the only problem with that is if Peyton does last 3 years, then what happens to Tannehill? How long would his contract be for? We all know what happens with these guys -- a team grooms their future, and the next thing you know, his contract is up before he gets on the field and someone else grabs him.

I guess if he gets a 5-year deal, things will be OK.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll be honest guys. if Manning is healthy, that
> is the only way to go. If he remains healthy,
> that gives Miami 3 good years (and probably
> playoffs all three years). Given that....
>
> If our brain trust believes in Tannehill, that
> will be Miami's first pick. Why not? He can learn
> from Peyton and be ready to go when the time
> comes. Now, the only problem with that is if
> Peyton does last 3 years, then what happens to
> Tannehill? How long would his contract be for?
> We all know what happens with these guys -- a team
> grooms their future, and the next thing you know,
> his contract is up before he gets on the field and
> someone else grabs him.
>
> I guess if he gets a 5-year deal, things will be
> OK.

If we sign Manning, then Tannehill in round 1 becomes a luxury pick. If we sign Manning, it is all in to win NOW. The #1 pick has to go for someone who can contribute to a championship right away, not for a guy to sit on the bench right for 3 years. We need OL, a TE, pass rushers, a CB, a MLB, and a FS. You need to spend the #1 pick to address one of those holes. And you draft a QB in round 3 or round 4 as a developmental guy. You can't afford to not get Manning help in round 1.

Just dont kid yourself into thinking this is strictly a football decision, it isnt.... This is coming from the business side and something the football side might not be the happiest with or chosen themselves, but the reality is Flynn and even RG3 isnt going to do for the business side of things what Manning will do... So if you decide to not choose Manning, you will not be in good graces with your boss, and if whoever you choose by chance fails, bad move on your part...lol... If Manning fails, nobody on the football side will get fired from Ross.....lol

As far as not being a good coach if u cant make Manning work, isnt the point... Philbin and SHerman are good at football because of their philosophy, systems and regiment to it... First, if you alter the plan for a player that you only have for a year or 2, then that player is gone, you could have a mess on your hands, and be the only one without a seat when the music stops... Secondly, Philbins system hyrbrid for Peyton Manning is unknown, unproven, it will not be as simple as you think... Systems work becasue you stick to them, but throwing a wrench into it, isnt always the right move... How the players blocking schemes, routes, everything, either Peyton learning a new system or the coaches learning a new system, isnt going to be as simple as you think... Installing a new offense is hard enough, without all of these unknowns and finding a balance between the 2 systems... I agree that a coach has to adapt to his personal, but a first time HC, would much rather have his guy rather then someone elses guy or choice who will have as much power as the coach.....

Of course, TT will go nuts if Philbin (still being true to what Philbin says above) brings in Flynn because he legitimately thinks Flynn is a better choice. Remember TT is a BIG fan of bringing in Peyton, which of course is the silliest thing we could do.

--------------------------------------

JMO here but, Flynn is the right choice between him and Manning. I say this because I don't care about winning some games over the next two years and then having to start over, without a quarterback...again.

I care about what is the best for "long term health and prosperity" of this team, and that is not Manning. As unquestionably good as Manning is (was), he's a stop-gap guy at this point in his career.

And I agree that if we do sign Manning that we also MUST draft a QB as his sucessor...IMHO, Tannehill is the best, and most reasonable choice "cost wise" we have this year. If we have to draft him at #8, so what...at lease we have him. That's more than we have had in the last decade. I also think Wheeden would be a good choice in the 2nd round but we'd have to take steps to ensure that we get him and that means a possible trade up scenario.

I'm not against RGIII/Luck either...just think the cost will be too great to get them. That said, I'll be very pleased with any rookie named Luck/RG, Tannehill or Wheeden this year...no matter which ring we enter in the Flynn/Manning circus.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JMO here but, Flynn is the right choice between
> him and Manning. I say this because I don't care
> about winning some games over the next two years
> and then having to start over, without a
> quarterback...again.
>
> I care about what is the best for "long term
> health and prosperity" of this team, and that is
> not Manning. As unquestionably good as Manning is
> (was), he's a stop-gap guy at this point in his
> career.

THE ABOVE IS GOSPEL.

>
> And I agree that if we do sign Manning that we
> also MUST draft a QB as his sucessor...

Given this premise that if we DO sign Manning

IMHO,
> Tannehill is the best, and most reasonable choice
> "cost wise" we have this year. If we have to draft
> him at #8, so what...at lease we have him.

I just would never spend a #8 on Tannehill.

That's
> more than we have had in the last decade.

I'm not so sure because I don't have that confidence in Tannehill. To tell the truth, if I WERE FORCED TO PICK another QB besides Luck or RGIII at 8, it would be Weeden.


I also
> think Wheeden would be a good choice in the 2nd
> round but we'd have to take steps to ensure that
> we get him and that means a possible trade up
> scenario.

What number is our pick in the 2nd round?

>
> I'm not against RGIII/Luck either...just think the
> cost will be too great to get them.

That may be true.

That said,
> I'll be very pleased with any rookie named
> Luck/RG, Tannehill or Wheeden this year...no
> matter which ring we enter in the Flynn/Manning
> circus.

The reason I said a possible trade up is because there is a possibility that Wheeden goes in the bottom part of the first round...especially if Luck, RGIII and Tanehill, are all taken early.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JMO here but, Flynn is the right choice between
> > him and Manning. I say this because I don't
> care
> > about winning some games over the next two
> years
> > and then having to start over, without a
> > quarterback...again.
> >
> > I care about what is the best for "long term
> > health and prosperity" of this team, and that
> is
> > not Manning. As unquestionably good as Manning
> is
> > (was), he's a stop-gap guy at this point in his
> > career.
>
> THE ABOVE IS GOSPEL.
>
> >
> > And I agree that if we do sign Manning that we
> > also MUST draft a QB as his sucessor...
>
> Given this premise that if we DO sign Manning
>
> IMHO,
> > Tannehill is the best, and most reasonable
> choice
> > "cost wise" we have this year. If we have to
> draft
> > him at #8, so what...at lease we have him.
>
> I just would never spend a #8 on Tannehill.
>
> That's
> > more than we have had in the last decade.
>
> I'm not so sure because I don't have that
> confidence in Tannehill. To tell the truth, if I
> WERE FORCED TO PICK another QB besides Luck or
> RGIII at 8, it would be Weeden.
>
>
> I also
> > think Wheeden would be a good choice in the 2nd
> > round but we'd have to take steps to ensure
> that
> > we get him and that means a possible trade up
> > scenario.
>
> What number is our pick in the 2nd round?
>
> >
> > I'm not against RGIII/Luck either...just think
> the
> > cost will be too great to get them.
>
> That may be true.
>
> That said,
> > I'll be very pleased with any rookie named
> > Luck/RG, Tannehill or Wheeden this year...no
> > matter which ring we enter in the Flynn/Manning
> > circus.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Our second round pick is #9.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JMO here but, Flynn is the right choice between
> him and Manning. I say this because I don't care
> about winning some games over the next two years
> and then having to start over, without a
> quarterback...again.
>

Here is the thing. While Philbin knows Flynn well, what no one knows is how good Flynn will be starting every week. Flynn has started two games, a year apart, both late season games against teams that had playoff spots clinched. Flynn has not had a chance to start week in and week out. When he does, other teams will learn him. They will learn his strengths and weaknesses, and they will gameplan for him. And no one knows how good Flynn will be in that situation. Historically speaking, making a big move to get a backup QB with very limited playing time has not worked out for the teams doing so. The best examples given are usually Matt Hasselbeck and Matt Schaub. Both turned out to be good QBs. But, neither has a ring. Is Flynn another Hasselbeck, or is he another Rob Johnson, or AJ Feeley, or Kevin Kolb? No one knows this.

With Manning, you know. If healthy, and this is a huge if, Manning is one of the elite QBs in the league. A healthy Peyton Manning can compete with a Tom Brady led team. If Flynn turns out to be "pretty good," we continue to run no better than second in the division.

You guys can argue till your blue in the face (not that Chyren needs my approval) about who we should get and why, but IMO all the options come with risks and questions. I'm just happy that we're finally gonna make a serious attempt at upgrading the position. We could easily be staring at resigning Henne and selling a QB comp between him and Moore, how depressing would that be?

LOL. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa! I'm not the only one here who argues on endlessly. Why do you think The Truth and I don't get along???? That's because we're too much alike! Have you noticed his posts with regards to other people even SINCE he blocked my posts? Just as long as the ones addressing mine and just as long as mine addressing other people.

Of course, everything is a risk. The question is which risk do you regard as higher. The Luck-RGIII people, the Flynn People, and the Manning people all have their different views on that.

We don't argue for the sake of arguing but we argue to see who can make the most persuasive case for our option.

To be clear, I am not opting for FLynn, but if we do take Flynn, I understand that Philbin would being staking his HC career in Miami on it... So that would give me more faith in Flynn then I have at this point... I like either Manning or RG3 from my weekend warrior perspective... Although I understand the possible tremendous downside in both choices... Manning with Moore as his backup, and a third young QB, wouldn't be a bad position to be in at start of season... RG3's athletic ability and upside is through the roof.... But I have also seen many a players get drafted high and fail because GM's and scout were overtaken by the tremendous athletic abilityl eading up to the draft... I havent watched enough RG3 to gurantee his success in the NFL....

In a perfect world, we would sign Manning and get RG3, but I better go back to bed and keep dreaming if I expect that to happen any time soon...

I dont call you stretch for no reason... A coach adapting to his personel is a good thing.... A coach has a system that works for him, he teaches it to his personel.. The parts of the system that work best for his personel is what the coach focuses on.... Stretching that to what myself and others have said about the Manning situation can only be described as "The Stretch"....

Manning is a coach, a field general, he doesnt play in a west coast system.... Plugging Manning into to Philbin, is going to take a longer time and alot of unknowns...
THis is not the same, as saying, a certain players doesnt throw the long out well, so the coach is going to have to adapt his system around that.... Or he is really good at play action, or good on his feet, so the sytem should incorporate those traits....
Would it be better to teach an old dog new tricks in his final years in the NFL...
Or would it be better to run a stripped down version of his offense that Philbin will have to figure out and then figure out how to teach it and all of the fine details that make each individual play successful... Or do they take all of the plays that are similar among the 2 systems, and build a simplified version of the 2... ANd when you start to bastardize schemes and systems, you create something that is unproven...
It isnt the same , sorry you dont seem to understand that...

Either way if Manning is healthy, Manning is so good, his talent and knowledge will override most defensive schemes or how the defense plans to attack his offense from play to play.... Just not sure it will be good for our team nor Philbin... Good chance he will look like the Colts did last year, when Manning departs... Manning runs a system and team, like only he can run it...

See what I mean, Dolphaholic?

Whoa, What?? (finishing my second bag of popcorn)
That was it?? I missed a re-run of Gilligan's Island for this?

Twilley that was pretty good, great film and great scene.....

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See what I mean, Dolphaholic?