berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam, you are being too harsh. odrick had a
> great year last year and didn't miss any time.
> long is one of the best LTs in the game. however
> I'd trade Long b/c he's so highly paid, and I
> agree, he is starting to be an injury risk to
> me---he's been injured most of the past few years
> and played thru mostly, but it has limited his
> effectiveness
>
> Jerry played LT at the end of last season and i
> didn't see too much of a drop off.


Not been harsh at all....Just stating the facts....And i want him to do well.....He did great last year. Just hoping he can keep injured free for the rest of his stay here.

BTW im against trading jake long....With our luck he will go to another team and have a hall of fame career. He is on his way here.

Just sick of all the injuries thats all.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just heard on ESPN radio that we have offered
> the
> > Rams our:
> > #8 pick, 3rd round this year, 1st next year,
> and
> > 3rd & 4th next year for the # 2 pick.
> >
> > I can't find this anywhere on the web. But what
> do
> > you guys think if true?
>
>
> Who's ESPn radio show was it reported on and who
> reported it?



&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
A guy named Walt Deptula. Google him. He has a Sports Talk Show and he has a Twitter page and is the next up-and-coming "sports insider". Remember his name, because he will be famous within the next 5 years. He also told what the Skins and Browns have offered as well.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2012 08:41AM by Aqua&Orange.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> would you do jake long and the #8 and for RG3?


Yes I would.

Lt is an overdrafted, overrated, overpaid position.

Over the last decade only one lt on the super bowl winning team was a 1st round pick.

Yes Long is a special LT. But he's not a necessity.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Just heard on ESPN radio that we have offered
> > the
> > > Rams our:
> > > #8 pick, 3rd round this year, 1st next year,
> > and
> > > 3rd & 4th next year for the # 2 pick.
> > >
> > > I can't find this anywhere on the web. But
> what
> > do
> > > you guys think if true?
> >
> >
> > Who's ESPn radio show was it reported on and
> who
> > reported it?
>
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> A guy named Walt Deptula. Google him. He has a
> Sports Talk Show and he has a Twitter page and is
> the next up-and-coming "sports insider". Remember
> his name, because he will be famous within the
> next 5 years. He also told what the Skins and
> Browns have offered as well.

So whose offer was best?

A choice between a franchise QB or a franchise LT?


That is too easy.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

He said the Browns were offering both #1's this year and a 4th next year.

The Skins were offering a 1st and 3rd this year, and a 1st and 4th next.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

A LT is one of those positions you think is not that important, until you do not have one... Jerry was ok, as a back up, trust me his game has many holes at LT... The lack of a LT, will be a huge problem developing a QB to stay in the pocket and pass... Granted RG3 is the type of guy to scramble..But any team that drafts him will want to encourage him to develop into a pocket passer.
Replacing Jake Long, will not be nearly as easy as you all are making it out to be...

The final reason trading Long away fails is, When you have one of the worst Olines in football last year, and Oline is a huge need of the team, you do not trade away your best player on that line...SMH....
Bradford is a solid pocket passer, why has he had problems? Lack of an Oline, specifically LT, which the Rams whiffed on with the second overall draft pick for RG3 alumni Jason Smith 2 years ago...The rams spent the second pick on the draft on him, and he is a bust... Not so easy to get a stud LT, and yes teams still highly value LT, A LT will go in the first 5 picks this year and just about every year... So, just becasue some of you are sour on Long, it is very misguided and misdirected...lol... The grass is always greener, fails most of the time...

I would trade away, Vontae Davis or Cameron Wake, or Paul Solia, becasue we are deeper in those positions... You can afford to trade away strength if you have depth at the position, and back ups that could be starters. We could aborb losing one of the above mentioned, much more then we could abosorb losing Team Captain and the highest rated player on our team at any position in jake Long...

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would trade away, Vontae Davis or Cameron Wake,
> or Paul Solia, becasue we are deeper in those
> positions...

HuH??? WHAT??

Davis is our best CB. Besides him we have an inconsistent Smith, a rookie in Wilson, an aging Will Allen, Nolan Carroll (who's fast, but ?), and a bunch of nobodies.

We are NOT deep at OLB/DE. If we shift to a 4-3, who else do we have to play DE? Rumor on Misi is he's moving inside. Odrick may be too big to play DE in a 4-3. Starks and Langford are DTs in that alignment.

On the other hand, if we stay with a 3-4, Soliai is our only real NT. Not deep at all there!! Regardless, there's very little chance we re-sign Soliai. He's just too expensive.

Here is the NFL starting LT's:

AFC North:
Ravens- Bryant McKinnie: #7 Overall Pick
Bengals- Andrew Whitworth: #55 Overall Pick
Browns- Joe Thomas: #3 Overall Pick
Steelers- Max Starks: #75 Overall Pick

AFC South:
Texans- Duane Brown- #26 Overall Pick
Colts- Anthony Constanzo- #22 Overall Pick
Jaguars- Eugene Monroe- #8 overall Pick
Titans- Michael Roos- #41 Overall Pick

AFC East
Bills- Demetrius Bell- #219 Overall Pick
Dolphins- Jake Long- #1 Overall Pick
patsies- Matt Light- #48 Overall Pick
jests- D'Brickashaw Fergusen- #4 Overall Pick

AFC West
Broncos- Ryan Clady- #12 Overall Pick
Chiefs- Brendan Albert- #15 Overall Pick
Raiders- Jared Veldeheer- #69 Overall Pick
Chargers- Marcus McNeill- #50 Overall Pick

NFC North
Bears- J'Marcus Webb- #218 Overall Pick
Lions- Jeff Backus- #18 Overall Pick
Packers- Chad Clifton- #44 Overall Pick
Vikings- Charlie Johnson- #199 Overall Pick

NFC South
Falcons- Will Svitek- #187 Overall Pick
Panthers- Jordan Gross- #8 Overall Pick
Saints- Jermon Bushrod- #125 Overall Pick
Bucs- Donald Penn- UNDRAFTED

NFC East
Cowboys- Tyrone Smith- #9 Overall Pick
Eagles- Jason Peters- UNDRAFTED
Giants- Will Beatty- #58 Overall Pick
Redskins- Trent Williams- #4 Overall Pick

NFC West
Cardinals- Levi Brown- #5 Overall Pick
49ers- Joe Staley- #28 Overall Pick
Seahawks- Russell Okung- #6 Overall Pick
Rams- Roger Saffold- #33 Overall Pick

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

In case you missed it we played the 4-3 probably more then 50 percent of the time last year. Starks, SOlia and even Mcdaniel played NT last year at times, they all played DT and Starks and Odrick played both DT and DE in the 4-3.
Davis was out alot last year, and Carrol,the rookie from Montana and vet WIll Allen, all did decent and improved greatly with the time starting. Davis is gonna be high priced next year. So is Cameron Wake, Solia is already high priced, a good chance you lose 2 out of 3 in the next year anyway mabe you could keep, Wake and Davis but you will pay alot ... SO yes I would trade one of them, take your pick... Our team would abosrd there loss easier then Jake Long IMO...

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is the NFL starting LT's:
>
> AFC North:
> Ravens- Bryant McKinnie: #7 Overall Pick
> Bengals- Andrew Whitworth: #55 Overall Pick
> Browns- Joe Thomas: #3 Overall Pick
> Steelers- Max Starks: #75 Overall Pick
>
> AFC South:
> Texans- Duane Brown- #26 Overall Pick
> Colts- Anthony Constanzo- #22 Overall Pick
> Jaguars- Eugene Monroe- #8 overall Pick
> Titans- Michael Roos- #41 Overall Pick
>
> AFC East
> Bills- Demetrius Bell- #219 Overall Pick
> Dolphins- Jake Long- #1 Overall Pick
> patsies- Matt Light- #48 Overall Pick
> jests- D'Brickashaw Fergusen- #4 Overall Pick
>
> AFC West
> Broncos- Ryan Clady- #12 Overall Pick
> Chiefs- Brendan Albert- #15 Overall Pick
> Raiders- Jared Veldeheer- #69 Overall Pick
> Chargers- Marcus McNeill- #50 Overall Pick
>
> NFC North
> Bears- J'Marcus Webb- #218 Overall Pick
> Lions- Jeff Backus- #18 Overall Pick
> Packers- Chad Clifton- #44 Overall Pick
> Vikings- Charlie Johnson- #199 Overall Pick
>
> NFC South
> Falcons- Will Svitek- #187 Overall Pick
> Panthers- Jordan Gross- #8 Overall Pick
> Saints- Jermon Bushrod- #125 Overall Pick
> Bucs- Donald Penn- UNDRAFTED
>
> NFC East
> Cowboys- Tyrone Smith- #9 Overall Pick
> Eagles- Jason Peters- UNDRAFTED
> Giants- Will Beatty- #58 Overall Pick
> Redskins- Trent Williams- #4 Overall Pick
>
> NFC West
> Cardinals- Levi Brown- #5 Overall Pick
> 49ers- Joe Staley- #28 Overall Pick
> Seahawks- Russell Okung- #6 Overall Pick
> Rams- Roger Saffold- #33 Overall Pick


probably similar to the Qb position, if you posted it side by side, alot of 1st rd picks...... Also Jason Smith is 2nd over all pick in 2009 and he plays Rt now? lol

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In case you missed it we played the 4-3 probably
> more then 50 percent of the time last year.
> Starks, SOlia and even Mcdaniel played NT last
> year at times, they all played DT and Starks and
> Odrick played both DT and DE in the 4-3.
> Davis was out alot last year, and Carrol,the
> rookie from Montana and vet WIll Allen, all did
> decent and improved greatly with the time
> starting. Davis is gonna be high priced next year.
> So is Cameron Wake, Solia is already high priced,
> a good chance you lose 2 out of 3 in the next year
> anyway mabe you could keep, Wake and Davis but you
> will pay alot ... SO yes I would trade one of
> them, take your pick... Our team would abosrd
> there loss easier then Jake Long IMO...

This is a good description, seeing as our defense stunk the first half of the year. When Davis was out our secondary was terrible. Without a good OLB opposite Wake we had little to no pass rush. When Soliai was out we had trouble stopping inside runs.

So, I think this supports what I was saying very well.

One thing about the 3 guys you want to trade, none are injury prone. I don't consider Davis and injury risk. He sat out with a hammy strain. Not something that requires surgery. On the other hand, Long has had injuries and surgery on his shoulder and knee. Those are much more serious injuries, and if he can't play the entire season this coming year he'll be officially branded as "injury prone". I think the risk of injury may outweigh the risk of trading him.

Lol....you would like to change history for the sake of your argument but Vontae Davis's inconsistent play was on him in the begining of the year, and his hamstring, is on him, and his getting benched for conduct not becoming of a dolphins is on him... You dont see Jake Long getting benched for boozing all night and showing up to practice late and hung over... Come on now...
The reason we stunk at the begining of the year is because Vontae and the rest of the defense was out of shape..,And hamstring/groin injuries popped up becasue of their poor conditioning... Davis had a hamstring injury yet was boozing, and not playing, which deihydrates the body and leads to the injury not healing...Our MBL play was probably the main reason we stunk coming out of the gate as well... SO dont rewrite the story that Davis is some savior, he had his worst year last year had behavior issues, and injuires, He only really played well the last 4-5 games...

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would trade away, Vontae Davis or Cameron Wake,
> or Paul Solia, becasue we are deeper in those
> positions... You can afford to trade away strength
> if you have depth at the position, and back ups
> that could be starters. We could aborb losing one
> of the above mentioned, much more then we could
> abosorb losing Team Captain and the highest rated
> player on our team at any position in jake Long...


We can't trade Soliai because he's not on our roster. And if we franchise him at $15M, no other team is touching him. He played just 35% of our defensive snaps last year because he is a total non-factor against the pass. No team is paying that kind of money for a one dimensional player.

Wake is a free agent at the end of the year, and will get a huge payday in 2013. A rebuilding team would rather have a cheaper guy under their control. And we are desperate for a pass rush, so why would we trade one of the league's best pass rushers?

Davis is under contract through 2013, at under $1M this year and at $1.1M next year. And he is by far our best CB, so why would we trade him?

mark, why can't we franchise solia and then trade him like the pats did with cassel and the packers are talking about with flynn? the team that gets him can then work out a long term deal. or is it that once franchised his number stays on our books forever, even if we trade him? in that case then how were the pats able to franchise cassell? a QB has a much higher franchise number than a DT so I don't see how NE could've carried that number and it would have made sense if all they got was a 2d round pick

I told you brothers two years ago Jake Long was never (NEVER) going to be the same and that’s just too bad for us. Luckily 70% of Jake is still pretty good but the amazing days of him burying DE’s 5+ yards downfield are (sorry for the pun) Long over.

Right now he’s more liability in $$$ terms but we’re never going to get much for him on the trade market (R2 max value) – and if I need to explain that then you just don’t understand the contemporary NFL landscape and a high dollar prematurely declining vet like Jake’s place in it. You can bet the #1 priority of the FO is to lower Long’s cap # by a big margin. After that, keeping Soliai in an economically “realistic” package should be #2.

Once we do that we can spend to our hearts content because everything else is relative.

Last, Wake is significantly more valuable for pure trade bait because the dude is NOT injury prone and has super rare athletic chops – and for that reason we’re not going to trade him unless there’s a suspicion in the org he’s somehow on the decline. But I see no evidence of that. And getting to the passer is just as important as protecting the passer and since we have NOTHING other than Cam it would be beyond stupid to unload him.

We could realistically replace Long at LT in this draft and in the process save millions, but we also need RT and OG. That would be 3/5’s of the OL and no way we’re doing that. So we redo Long’s contract and add RT and RG, go FA for QB and hope and pray we can sign Soliai to something we can live with. He’s also a player that we could flip afterwards IF we can structure the right deal.

More than the draft right now - this is what Ireland needs to pull off to be a truly top notch GM. If he let’s Soliai walk with nothing in return then we just (essentially) threw a R1 away with nothing to show – because that’s what Paul’s relative value is assessed at.

Dudes like Langford and Merling are expendable because they don’t impact the outcome of games and their athletic package is nothing extraordinary. And since Long has lost his dominant power he’s an excellent technician with marginal athletic agility and rather plodding footwork. Not the ideal LT for a WCO IMO (where you can be less physical but with above average agility and great feet).

Soliai still has UPSIDE and possesses the rare combination of size and athleticism that makes him VERY DIFFICULT to replace. Wake is a freak. End of story.

My .02.

BNF.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mark, why can't we franchise solia and then trade
> him like the pats did with cassel and the packers
> are talking about with flynn?

If we franchise Soliai, it eats up all our cap space. All of it. And that $15M for one year is guaranteed. If we can't make a trade, we'd be done. What if Soliai tells a proposed new team that he refuses to negotiate a new long term deal? It's a huge risk. And the issue with trading him is that he is not worth close to that on the open market. I'm a huge Soliai fan. I was singing his praises at the end of the 2009 season for his growth as a player. But, he is not Vince Woolfork or Haloti Ngata or Jay Ratliff. He does not stay on the field in passing situations. Literally, he was on the field for only 35% of our defensive snaps last year. You cannot pay a guy like that more than 10% of your salary cap. His value on the market is going to get him a deal that pays him $7-8M per year. No team is going to want him at $15M. This is not a QB you are talking about. Teams get desperate for QBs, so they can do crazy things, like trading a 2nd rd pick for AJ Feeley or Matt Cassel, or breaking the bank for Kevin Kolb. They don't get that desperate for a run stuffing NT.

Soliai was on the field for 451 snaps last season. He had 24 tackles, 3 QB hits, 5 QB pressures and 2 batted passes. He had 15 stops at the line or for a loss.

Haloti Ngata took 832 snaps, had 47 tackles, 5 sacks, 7 QB hits, 14 pressures, 5 batted passes. He had 27 stops at the line or for a loss.

Wilfork took 977 snaps. He had 42 tackles, 4 sacks, 4 QB hits, 15 pressures, 2 batted passes, and 34 stops for a loss or no gain.

Ratliff took 750 snaps. He had 32 tackles, 2 sacks, 6 QB hits, 21 pressures, 3 batted passes, and 24 stops for no gain or loss.

Soliai is not in their class.

Dolfan mark- you are takin the approach, why would we trade anybody... Well becasue we might want to go after RG3 and the number 2 draft pick, in order to do that guess what, you have to make sacrifices, you wouldnt normally make... That is why? any questions?

Don't the Rams seriously need a WR? I would give them Brandon Marshall, this year's 3rd, Swap 1sts, and give them next year's 1st.

Have they shown any interest in Marshall at all?... would be cool to know.

Its a good move for other reasons I don't see on the board.
1. Yes it would be nice to get RG3
2. Yes this is a decent price for him that force the others to ante up some, but not enough to get him.

More importantly it puts the Fins in a position to have Flynn and Manning aware that the FINS have other options and just may take them, thus may greatly help negotiations.

Agreed with Phinjim. This isn't crazy news. It would be crazy if the fins didn't make an offer. What do we have to lose? We up the bidding for RGIII. We get leverage in contract negotiations with Flynn and Manning so long as the Rams hold the 2nd pick. With making a bid, we essentially are just keeping our options open.

If they would take Marshall for the pick, I would be in estacsy.